Tom Hickey 'managed'

Remove this Banner Ad

dewah07 said:
Their is no way Holmes is better than longer shocking call IMO
Click to expand...


I don't think he is either but what is Longer better than Holmes at actually doing? Neither get kicks, Neither take marks, Neither kick goals. Maybe he handballs in a fraction more but he couldn't even do that at 50% on Sunday. Lets face it if Hickey was playing there wouldn't be one person asking for Holmes to play. Probably says where some people rate Longer.
 
plugger66 said:
I don't think he is either but what is Longer better than Holmes at actually doing? Neither get kicks, Neither take marks, Neither kick goals. Maybe he handballs in a fraction more but he couldn't even do that at 50% on Sunday. Lets face it if Hickey was playing there wouldn't be one person asking for Holmes to play. Probably says where some people rate Longer.
Click to expand...
Longer is the only ruck with star potential on the roster for starters.
I understand why the club thinks he's the future of our ruck division when u check the ages of the top10 rucks over the past few years' ages.
He has the ability to dominate in hitouts to advantage and even tho he's dopey can draw crucial free kicks and showed the ability at tac to follow up and look like a mumford.
He's currently below average for a starting ruck but I'm happy the club sees his scope the way I do as theirs probs under 5 rucks in the afl at his age with the same or more scope and I would be grooming him to take over in the next couple years much as mccartin will take over in 2-3 years
 

Log in to remove this ad.

JG22 said:
It's closer than people think.

Longer may get a couple more touches but they aren't of any damage because he refuses to kick the ball.

On the weekend, Longer had 1 kick and 7 handballs, yet went at 37% efficiency, he's turning over handballs.
Click to expand...

The bolded is my issue with him.With our game plan being based on super fast counter-attacking, a player needs to make quick decisions as well as execute quickly when it is their turn. Our guys (including Hickey) have had a lot of practice at this and have been getting better and better at it. Billy looked a long, long way off the pace when it came to being part of our attacking chains and I would go as far to say he was a liability for us in an attacking sense with his missed disposals.

His "bash and crash" game was good when he wasn't tired but, is that enough in modern footy especially when your team plays the style we have?
 
Right now we have only one senior quality ruck on our list and that's Hickey-not the best in the comp, but pretty good. Longer is slow, no game below his knees and for a big guy, can't see to grab a strong pack mark. Holmes is not a natural, but is a useful standby. More work should be put into Pierce by the club, including more senior games, but I think Richo is a bit like Lyon- just won't take a chance with selection and would prefer to play an older player with ordinary form over a younger player.
 
dewah07 said:
Longer is the only ruck with star potential on the roster for starters.
I understand why the club thinks he's the future of our ruck division when u check the ages of the top10 rucks over the past few years' ages.
He has the ability to dominate in hitouts to advantage and even tho he's dopey can draw crucial free kicks and showed the ability at tac to follow up and look like a mumford.
He's currently below average for a starting ruck but I'm happy the club sees his scope the way I do as theirs probs under 5 rucks in the afl at his age with the same or more scope and I would be grooming him to take over in the next couple years much as mccartin will take over in 2-3 years
Click to expand...


Why has Longer got star potential. Just words. He doesn't mark, kick it or kick goals. He hits the ball when its in the air and doesn't get great percentage to advantage. I must be watching a different game if he is going to be a star. All you have said is words. There isn't any fact in it at all. Has the ability to dominate hits to advantage. Also has the ability to not do that.
 
Couple of things...

Firstly we ate lucky to be able to have this discussion. Melbourne would kill to have Holmes on their list right now. There season may well be over.

Secondly, we are 2 injuries away from having the same problem, lucky we have Holmes.

Thirdly, don't care how much star potential a player had, they have to earn their dues. Many future stars have turned out spuds.

Fourthly this whole thing about age. Holmes is 27. So what? Granted he's not a natural footballer, but Dew, Ball, Gardiner, Hale and even the guy who played in 2010 for the filth weren't exactly spring chickens.

Finally if it's all about taps, then Holmes should be playing... stronger, better leap and fitter than Billy.
 
Our biggest ruckman is also our youngest. We should be doing more to develop Lou Pierce. He has had one AFL game so far, and did pretty well from memory. Apparently our best player for Sandy last weekend. Could be the time to give him a run, although I would like to see him play with another ruckman in our side for the first few weeks.
 
plugger66 said:
Why has Longer got star potential. Just words. He doesn't mark, kick it or kick goals. He hits the ball when its in the air and doesn't get great percentage to advantage. I must be watching a different game if he is going to be a star. All you have said is words. There isn't any fact in it at all. Has the ability to dominate hits to advantage. Also has the ability to not do that.
Click to expand...
Words are important when it comes to a player like longer because basic metrics and stats don't say what I and obviously the club see in longer. I didn't say he will be a star but under25 star potential rucks would be under 5 total in the league.

I have the hope he becomes a bash and cash ruck who will be able to have a soft touch in the ruck and be able to follow up like a mummy and help out on the inside to allow us to have more outside runners.

Words is all I can give you really but I'm not trying to convince anyone because it doesn't matter what we think, it's all about the club and it looks like they agree with me
 
VDS66 said:
All jokes aside, the club has dug itself I to a hole on this issue.

The messaging was atrocious.

Hickey should have been managed or dropped. Simple.

It may well be internally they see Billy as the better long term solution. Apparently so according to some on here. Fair enough.

But here's the rub...

Despite Billy supposedly killing it preseason, he didn't start round one.

Now if Hickey was dropped on form, then so be it. However, he didn't play for Sandy, so we have to assume he was sore.

The club should have left it at that.

So technically, if he was being managed and is now fit, he should be picked tonight.

If they want to give Billy an extended run then call it that way and be honest about it.

Like I said, Richo totally ****** this up with his comments.
Click to expand...
I've seen this written about Longer being better long term and laugh every time I see it. It's just so untrue that it's not funny. Anyway, let's hope he improves and makes our list better.
 
borderbarry said:
Our biggest ruckman is also our youngest. We should be doing more to develop Lou Pierce. He has had one AFL game so far, and did pretty well from memory. Apparently our best player for Sandy last weekend. Could be the time to give him a run, although I would like to see him play with another ruckman in our side for the first few weeks.
Click to expand...
I would dispute Pierce was BoG for Sandy.
Having said that Barrels wasnt impressed with Longer and he got selected so Pierce is probably a big chance
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

BrianSpeaking said:
We're disagreeing about two jobber ruckman, probably both on the lower scales around the AFL.
Click to expand...
Currently yes but I believe in longer long term
 
Just came across this good part of a post from CF from the other thread, which may have been missed by anyone who doesn't read long posts:

CursingFijian said:
For the Billy Longer knockers, Chris Scott, spoke in his post game presser about how they instructed Blicavs to run him ragged, because they felt he was dominating the ruck early. It's no wonder he ran out of puff in his first game back. There was more to like than not like in my opinion.
Click to expand...

And on top of that was Richo saying on AFL 360 that Billy was "lame" (injured) later in the game, which presumably would have also slowed him down in the 2nd half (had 7 disposals in the first, which is perfectly good if he can double that for a full match once fully up to the pace and not injured). Also spent about 5-6 mins off the ground early in the 3rd after the head clash that may have resulted in a broken nose.

I thought Billy was all over the 206cm Smith early on in the game in particular live and I watched the first quarter for the first time on the TV a couple of nights ago and I was extremely happy with how Billy went in it, and reckon the club would have been thrilled.

Won the first 5 centre bounce contests (and 6 of the 7 he contested for the quarter), he gave us first use at times and he went OK at the around the ground ones as well. And we won the clearances 11-8 for the quarter.

He also did some very good physical work in the packs, with handballs, tackle/s, applying physical pressure and keeping the ball alive/out of Geelong hands, with knock-ons and so-on.

He obviously died out of it as the match went on/after he copped a couple of knocks, but if he's going to be better for the run, and could play like he did in the first half for most of the game (once he's used to playing at the level again), I wouldn't think he'll be losing his spot any time soon if Hick wa sin fact going to be dropped if fit last week.

Reasonable sized if's though, so it will be good to see what happens.

Also gave away 0 free kicks and received one himself, compared to Hick, who has averaged 3 frees against (1 for) per game so far this year- which makes up for a chunk of the difference between the 12 disposals Tom is averaging per game this year and the 8 Billy got in this one.

We were also even in the stoppage clearances for the game, which I'd say is the main reason he was brought in, as Tom's weakness in this area is the reason we went 3rd-up so much last year and would be the main reason Richo suggested he would have been dropped last week had he not needed a week off.
 
Last edited:
aussierulesrules said:
Just came across this good part of a post from CF from the other thread, which may have been missed by anyone who doesn't read long posts:



And on top of that was Richo saying on AFL 360 that Billy was "lame" (injured) later in the game, which presumably would have also slowed him down in the 2nd half (had 7 disposals in the first, which is perfectly good if he can double that for a full match once fully up to the pace and not injured). Also spent about 5-6 mins off the ground early in the 3rd after the head clash that may have resulted in a broken nose.

I thought Billy was all over the 206cm Smith early on in the game in particular live and I watched the first quarter for the first time on the TV a couple of nights ago and I was extremely happy with how Billy went in it, and reckon the club would have been thrilled.

Won the first 5 centre bounce contests (and 6 of the 7 he contested for the quarter), he gave us first use at times and he went OK at the around the ground ones as well. And we won the clearances 11-8 for the quarter.

He also did some very good physical work in the packs, with handballs, tackle/s, applying physical pressure and keeping the ball alive/out of Geelong hands, with knock-ons and so-on.

He obviously died out of it as the match went on/after he copped a couple of knocks, but if he's going to be better for the run, and could play like he did in the first half for most of the game (once he's used to playing at the level again), I wouldn't think he'll be losing his spot any time soon if Hick wa sin fact going to be dropped if fit last week.

Reasonable sized if's though, so it will be good to see what happens.

Also gave away 0 free kicks and received one himself, compared to Hick, who has averaged 3 frees against (1 for) per game so far this year- which makes up for a chunk of the difference between the 12 disposals Tom is averaging per game this year and the 8 Billy got in this one.

We were also even in the stoppage clearances for the game, which I'd say is the main reason he was brought in, as Tom's weakness in this area is the reason we went 3rd-up so much last year and would be the main reason Richo suggested he would have been dropped last week had he not needed a week off.
Click to expand...

This sums up my thoughts exactly. Keep up the good work ARR.
 
Periphery said:
This sums up my thoughts exactly. Keep up the good work ARR.
Click to expand...
I have more!

For those who are worried about his low time on ground number (76%), like I said, he spent up to 6 mins off the ground after the head clash that may have broken his nose and when he was our no.1 rucking option in 2015, aside from one game (where I think he was subbed off), in his 17 other games that year the least time he spent on the ground in any of them was 85%.

So given that logic would suggest that he would be a fair bit fitter now than he was then (at 22yo), it's hard to imagine he won't be able to get his TOG numbers back up to the high 80's regularly again once he's used to playing at senior AFL level again. Hopefully as soon as this week.
 
plugger66 said:
Why has Longer got star potential. Just words. He doesn't mark, kick it or kick goals. He hits the ball when its in the air and doesn't get great percentage to advantage. I must be watching a different game if he is going to be a star. All you have said is words. There isn't any fact in it at all. Has the ability to dominate hits to advantage. Also has the ability to not do that.
Click to expand...
Okay Donald.
 
dewah07 said:
Words are important when it comes to a player like longer because basic metrics and stats don't say what I and obviously the club see in longer. I didn't say he will be a star but under25 star potential rucks would be under 5 total in the league.
Click to expand...

Don't know how to measure "star potential", but under 25s who are playing reasonably regularly getting hitouts:

Grundy, Nicholls, Naismith, Nankervis, Lobb, Witts, Preuss, Wright, Daniher, Longer

Probably some good ones there.
 
I would like us to try one game at least playing both ruckmen . So Bruce can stay at full forward and not be stuffed all the time. Also so we don't have times when we get smashed in the clearances . It's got to be worth a try even just once to see if it can work . Also means our ruckmen aren't buggered by 3 quarter time . They could have tried it during the preseason but they didn't , so try it now , what have we got to lose.


Sent via HAL
 
Brains Trust66 said:
I would like us to try one game at least playing both ruckmen . So Bruce can stay at full forward and not be stuffed all the time. Also so we don't have times when we get smashed in the clearances . It's got to be worth a try even just once to see if it can work . Also means our ruckmen aren't buggered by 3 quarter time . They could have tried it during the preseason but they didn't , so try it now , what have we got to lose.


Sent via HAL
Click to expand...


The game.
 
Brains Trust66 said:
I would like us to try one game at least playing both ruckmen . So Bruce can stay at full forward and not be stuffed all the time. Also so we don't have times when we get smashed in the clearances . It's got to be worth a try even just once to see if it can work . Also means our ruckmen aren't buggered by 3 quarter time . They could have tried it during the preseason but they didn't , so try it now , what have we got to lose.


Sent via HAL
Click to expand...

I prefer the idea of playing Gilbert in the ruck to play as an extra mid
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Tom Hickey 'managed'

Similar threads

g_TRAIN
List Mgmt. 2024 List management Discussion
29 30 31 32 33
Replies
800
Views
53K
L_W_P
L_W_P
S
Tom Morris reporter, or fantasy author
2
Replies
44
Views
2K
longtimesaint
L
The Jack
Discussion Saints part ways with recruiting manager after restructure
17 18 19 20 21
Replies
511
Views
33K
Tyrian Lonestar
Tyrian Lonestar
George
Saints News Saints appoint list management team
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
165
Views
8K
bergholt
bergholt

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top