Saints News Saints appoint list management team

[PrinceCharles]

All those players bar Stocker Dow sps and McGovern came during the height of your rebuild were he traded 3rd/4th rounders for punts to beef the list up in hope you might find a player whilst rebuilding.

Yes but most were proven rubbish at that point, in my opinion it would have been better to bring in 18 year olds instead as pretty much all of them were useless. Maybe there were issues around meeting the cap minimum, but there's still no getting away from the fact that in the years after 2015 he found maybe 4 effective players.

Plus giving him Weitering and Walsh is pretty generous, they'd have to be two of the most unanimous pick 1's in recent memory.

 

[stavro#4]

Yes but most were proven rubbish at that point, in my opinion it would have been better to bring in 18 year olds instead as pretty much all of them were useless. Maybe there were issues around meeting the cap minimum, but there's still no getting away from the fact that in the years after 2015 he found maybe 4 effective players.

Plus giving him Weitering and Walsh is pretty generous, they'd have to be two of the most unanimous pick 1's in recent memory.

Walsh was in the same draft as king/Rozee etc.

A fit king goes #1 without a doubt. So you had to make the call still.

Calling him out for his selections over taking previously high rated players in the system over late picks isn’t exactly a strong argument.

He missed as many first picks as he nailed as genuine stars though. Could argue he could have done better but he also nailed studs in the picks that landed

 

[Saints43]

Let’s see how that goes after a bad loss.

Thankfully we'll never see one of those again.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Walsh was in the same draft as king/Rozee etc.

A fit king goes #1 without a doubt. So you had to make the call still.

Calling him out for his selections over taking previously high rated players in the system over late picks isn’t exactly a strong argument.

He missed as many first picks as he nailed as genuine stars though. Could argue he could have done better but he also nailed studs in the picks that landed

Not a hard decision when you have Curnow and McKay. He nailed 4 studs absolutely. SOS means a lot to me, was my favourite player growing up, but I was very disappointed in him after 2015 as someone who follows the Blues very passionately and closely. I hope he does well for you, it would make me happy as I want him to be successful.

 

[Joffaboy]

Regardless of the Hill deal, we had to do 5 deals for Hill, Doogs, Jones, Butler and Paddy.
All are still on our list and are usually first 22.

It was done and kept the next years first.

Swapped firsts and a second for Higgins. Picked up Alison who was just starting to develop.
Also got Crouch as a FA.

Really don't see the issue with the 2019 Trading.
We lost Bruce, Steven and Acres. Stuv was stuffed, Bruce had one good season then had the bad luck of an acl, Acres surprisingly got delisted by Freo and is now at the Blues.

Still reckon we are ahead on those trades.



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[Joffaboy]

Not a hard decision when you have Curnow and McKay. He nailed 4 studs absolutely. SOS means a lot to me, was my favourite player growing up, but I was very disappointed in him after 2015 as someone who follows the Blues very passionately and closely. I hope he does well for you, it would make me happy as I want him to be successful.

Sometimes it's harder to pick a top pick than one near the end of the top ten.
Saints stuffed McCartin over Petracca @ no.1 and Billings over Bont @no.3, but we got King at 4 because he was injured. Same draft Bulldogs get Bailey Smith @no.7 as the consolation prize, we got Phillipou @no.10 this year as the cards fell our way.
So much more expectation on a top 5 kid.

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[PrinceCharles]

Sometimes it's harder to pick a top pick than one near the end of the top ten.
Saints stuffed McCartin over Petracca @ no.1 and Billings over Bont @no.3, but we got King at 4 because he was injured. Same draft Bulldogs get Bailey Smith @no.7 as the consolation prize, we got Phillipou @no.10 this year as the cards fell our way.
So much more expectation on a top 5 kid.

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100%, as I said he absolutely nailed 2015, it's nearly everything after that I have an issue with. There were also the big name players we went all in on and missed as well.

 

[plugger66]

Thankfully we'll never see one of those again.

If only.

 

[gringo2011]

Regardless of the Hill deal, we had to do 5 deals for Hill, Doogs, Jones, Butler and Paddy.
All are still on our list and are usually first 22.

It was done and kept the next years first.

Swapped firsts and a second for Higgins. Picked up Alison who was just starting to develop.
Also got Crouch as a FA.

Really don't see the issue with the 2019 Trading.
We lost Bruce, Steven and Acres. Stuv was stuffed, Bruce had one good season then had the bad luck of an acl, Acres surprisingly got delisted by Freo and is now at the Blues.

Still reckon we are ahead on those trades.



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Paddy isn't on the list any more but regardless it's done now and we can't go back. I was pointing out that it probably cost Gags his job. I think we should have drafted hard for a few years and tried to get a gun recruiter to nail high picks and hopefully get some elite talent in. It might not matter if we time things right and get some luck but probably misread the list.

We have been nailing picks since Lethlean came in and changed direction and that will hopefully make up for the lost time. Hopefully Lyon can turn Hill into the player we paid so much for. Howard, Butler and Jones are so far a hit and miss lot who hopefully end up Lyon specials.

 

[plugger66]

Sometimes it's harder to pick a top pick than one near the end of the top ten.
Saints stuffed McCartin over Petracca @ no.1 and Billings over Bont @no.3, but we got King at 4 because he was injured. Same draft Bulldogs get Bailey Smith @no.7 as the consolation prize, we got Phillipou @no.10 this year as the cards fell our way.
So much more expectation on a top 5 kid.

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I refuse to ever blame the club for taking billings. Bont was just a great pick by the dogs. He wasn’t rated near the top 5 until one of the journos knew dogs were taking him 4. Before that not rated highly.

 

[gringo2011]

100%, as I said he absolutely nailed 2015, it's nearly everything after that I have an issue with. There were also the big name players we went all in on and missed as well.

I think Carlton and St Kilda probably both had boards who demanded quick results. List managers are in charge of list build strategy but also have to navigate all the internal voices who want input.

My family are Blues supporters and if they are to be believed there was a lot of dysfunctional ego driven infighting going on there. People on the board were happy to hurt the club over petty ego squabbles and white-anting. There were so many power players all wanting to run the show and the only thing that straightened you up was getting Brian Cook who had enough gravitas to pull everyone in a single direction.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I refuse to ever blame the club for taking billings. Bont was just a great pick by the dogs. He wasn’t rated near the top 5 until one of the journos knew dogs were taking him 4. Before that not rated highly.

Yes he was a speculative pick, a late bloomer and likely the Dogs would have taken Billings before Bont if they had Pick 3

 

[plugger66]

Paddy isn't on the list any more but regardless it's done now and we can't go back. I was pointing out that it probably cost Gags his job. I think we should have drafted hard for a few years and tried to get a gun recruiter to nail high picks and hopefully get some elite talent in. It might not matter if we time things right and get some luck but probably misread the list.

We have been nailing picks since Lethlean came in and changed direction and that will hopefully make up for the lost time. Hopefully Lyon can turn Hill into the player we paid so much for. Howard, Butler and Jones are so far a hit and miss lot who hopefully end up Lyon specials.

No idea why gags lost his job but moving to Adelaide and more importantly Lyons mate being available probably had plenty to do with it. I don’t mind Lyon running the show. I just hope we have enough checks and balances this year. Let’s face it on paper it’s the best off field group the club has had. Well certainly since the afl started. No excuses now. Well maybe this year but 2024 and beyond there are none. If we fail I will just point it down to being a genuine loser club.

 

[plugger66]

Yes he was a speculative pick, a late bloomer and likely the Dogs would have taken Billings before Bont if they had Pick 3

Correct. The paddy one I will never forgive. As stupid as it sounds I think we are a top 4 side now with petracca. If not top 4 I’d say top 6 for sure.

 

[gringo2011]

I refuse to ever blame the club for taking billings. Bont was just a great pick by the dogs. He wasn’t rated near the top 5 until one of the journos knew dogs were taking him 4. Before that not rated highly.

That's not entirely true. He came storming up the draft rankings late. He had a 50 disposal 10 goal school game starting at CHB and everyone sat up and took notice.

26 days to the draft: Meet gun prospect Marcus Bontempelli

A tall midfielder with some tricks, Bontempelli has huge potential

www.afl.com.au

DRAFT RANGE
A first-round selection. A harder one to read because some clubs have him as a very early pick and others see him closer to No.15.

Knighmare even had him in his power rating thing.

 

[NoisyMinor]

Turns out my inside mail was correct

Who's in charge of the bog rolls?

I simply must know.

 

[Joffaboy]

Paddy isn't on the list any more but regardless it's done now and we can't go back. I was pointing out that it probably cost Gags his job. I think we should have drafted hard for a few years and tried to get a gun recruiter to nail high picks and hopefully get some elite talent in. It might not matter if we time things right and get some luck but probably misread the list.

We have been nailing picks since Lethlean came in and changed direction and that will hopefully make up for the lost time. Hopefully Lyon can turn Hill into the player we paid so much for. Howard, Butler and Jones are so far a hit and miss lot who hopefully end up Lyon specials.

Yes Paddy retired but the other 4 are first 22. We got an extra year out of Paddy.

If that cost Gallagher his job, well we are idiots. I think if Gallagher wanted to stay he would have.
We lose him with nobody lined up? Hardly.

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[Joffaboy]

I refuse to ever blame the club for taking billings. Bont was just a great pick by the dogs. He wasn’t rated near the top 5 until one of the journos knew dogs were taking him 4. Before that not rated highly.

Yes correct definitely a hindsight comment. Billings was a lock at 3.


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[stavro#4]

Not a hard decision when you have Curnow and McKay. He nailed 4 studs absolutely. SOS means a lot to me, was my favourite player growing up, but I was very disappointed in him after 2015 as someone who follows the Blues very passionately and closely. I hope he does well for you, it would make me happy as I want him to be successful.

Again you’re upset about how you spent 3rd and 4th rounders on existing listed players over kids.

I’ve broken down the early picks themselves. Outside of Dow - the next hits after your misses are 5 picks away. Hard to be upset.

I’d argue a lot of your clubs issue was poor coaching

 

[pebblesofsand]

Oh gawd - we're back on McCartin/Petracca and Bont/Billings.

Its our very own version of Godwins Law - 2 pages of draft discussions must produce the inevitable reference to Petracca/McCartin.

 

[Joffaboy]

Oh gawd - we're back on McCartin/Petracca and Bont/Billings.

Its our very own version of Godwins Law - 2 pages of draft discussions must produce the inevitable reference to Petracca/McCartin.

You really need to understand context. Unbelievably obtuse and churlish posts.

Stop your assanine trolling.

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[plugger66]

That's not entirely true. He came storming up the draft rankings late. He had a 50 disposal 10 goal school game starting at CHB and everyone sat up and took notice.

26 days to the draft: Meet gun prospect Marcus Bontempelli

A tall midfielder with some tricks, Bontempelli has huge potential

www.afl.com.au

DRAFT RANGE
A first-round selection. A harder one to read because some clubs have him as a very early pick and others see him closer to No.15.

Knighmare even had him in his power rating thing.

That's not entirely true. He came storming up the draft rankings late. He had a 50 disposal 10 goal school game starting at CHB and everyone sat up and took notice.

26 days to the draft: Meet gun prospect Marcus Bontempelli

A tall midfielder with some tricks, Bontempelli has huge potential

www.afl.com.au

DRAFT RANGE
A first-round selection. A harder one to read because some clubs have him as a very early pick and others see him closer to No.15.

Knighmare even had him in his power rating thing.

Does that mean club rated him pick 4 becaus knoghtmare had him in the power ratings thing? I reckon if one or more clubs had him at 15 then it was a surprise pick. Did anyone have him at pick 3? As I said the only time he was rated higher than 8 is when one draft person heard the dogs were taking him. It’s actually easy to look up where he was thought to go. None at pick 3. I think billings lowest pick was 5. Some had him 2.

 

[plugger66]

Oh gawd - we're back on McCartin/Petracca and Bont/Billings.

Its our very own version of Godwins Law - 2 pages of draft discussions must produce the inevitable reference to Petracca/McCartin.

It’s more about why people in charge were sacked or replaced.

 

[Joffaboy]

Like I said sometimes a pick outside top 3 can be a bonus, Bont and Max @4, because Max had the knee, Bailey Smith at 7 same draft, Phillipou at 10 for us, NWM at 13 etc.
Our highest pick for years has been Max.



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[PrinceCharles]

Again you’re upset about how you spent 3rd and 4th rounders on existing listed players over kids.

I’ve broken down the early picks themselves. Outside of Dow - the next hits after your misses are 5 picks away. Hard to be upset.

I’d argue a lot of your clubs issue was poor coaching

I'm not upset, I just think he didn't do a very good job, I love the guy though.

But I agree that poor coaching was definitely an issue as well. The way I see it we currently have 11 players from his era in our best 22, so it feels like a lot of wasted attempts at finding decent players.