List Mgmt. Tom Lonergan recommits to Geelong after chase by the Bulldogs

[SJ]

Look I love Lonergan and I don't want him to go (from an emotional point of view) but let's be realistic here, if he really is being offered a 3 year deal we shouldn't be matching that, at his age he should be on 1 year deals each year and it would be irresponsible for the club to do anything else for a player who is 31 next year.

If he wants to go for the security, fair enough he deserves him, I am sure the club would like him to stay.

And losing a 30 year old hurts far less than losing a player in Bundy's age bracket, I am way more worried about that one.

We don't have to match it.

 

[Whit3y]

He knows the coaching staff are willing to throw him out like old garbage the first chance they get. The fact that they so publicly and aggressively went after Frawley would have indicated to him that his days were numbered, and with memories of how club legends like Chapman, Corey, Podsiadly, and Hunt were treated fresh in his mind, he'd know what was coming.

Scott has completely undermined the culture that Thompson and the playing group of 07-11 worked so hard to build. He has treated the legends of the football club with nothing but disrespect, and done little to fill the void left by them. His list management and development tactics have been terrible, and will set this club back years.

yeah no veteran is safe anymore are they. every older player that plays at geelong must question whether they will stay a one club player

 

[OzeSparky]

Pretty sure the team he inherited had Christensen.

The team he will have in 2015 won't. Funny that.

Didn't he put Christensen in it?

 

[Partridge]

I'm going to guess the answer to "what happens" is "people agree with you", because that's certainly the impression I get from the Geelong forum I've been reading, and I assume you've been reading the same one. If Kelly's form doesn't merit selection, then he shouldn't be picked. Has anyone here suggested otherwise?

Yes, and two of the more common refrains are "while he's still averaging 20 touches no youngster is pushing him out", or the more popular "there is no one ready to take his spot" (clearly having never heard of Jed Bews).

 

[CatRiot]

No Frawley. Lonergan and Rivers are required for 2 years. We just add outside run around those positions. 1 year deal with a performance based 1 year option. We get 1 more top midfielder then we are in premiership window.

 

[Partridge]

It's a good thing Scott has given some games to our younger KPDs, just in case the Frawley deal fell through and something like this happened... That way, we wouldn't have a kid with no AFL experience whatsoever coming into the side completely green...

That's a little unfair I would say. He gave Brown a whole quarter there in the final against North.

 

[OzeSparky]

Sorry for the intrusion
A bit of discussion on our board regarding Lonergan just wondering your thoughts.
I would think it would take one of our second rounders to get him or a deal like our lake deal something like
Dogs get: Lonergan and Pick 35
Cats get: Picks 26/27 and 45

Thoughts

Yeah your probably on the money

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We don't have to match it.

Yeah but could you really begrudge him going if that is the offer? Heck there's a chance his body might not even hold up past last year.
If he was offered that contract (which would be stupid by the dogs I might add) he deserves the opportunity to accept it if he wants to, given all he has given to us (I am aware he is contracted so we have the final call).

 

[Supercats]

yeah no veteran is safe anymore are they. every older player that plays at geelong must question whether they will stay a one club player

The only legends out of those 4 are Chapman (Offered a contract) and Corey (Who retired). The other two, their time was up at catland.

 

[Baudolino]

Yes, and two of the more common refrains are "while he's still averaging 20 touches no youngster is pushing him out", or the more popular "there is no one ready to take his spot" (clearly having never heard of Jed Bews).

There's a difference between someone opining that Kelly was generally good last year (which he was) and still better than Bews, and someone claiming that Kelly should not spend any time in the VFL at all next year if he isn't good enough. You were implying that people have been doing the latter when, so far as I'm aware, no one has.

 

[SJ]

Yeah but could you really begrudge him going if that is the offer? Heck there's a chance his body might not even hold up past last year.
If he was offered that contract (which would be stupid by the dogs I might add) he deserves the opportunity to accept it if he wants to, given all he has given to us (I am aware he is contracted so we have the final call).

Well I don't begrudge him wanting the security of a three-year offer, but the fact is he has committed to play for the Geelong Football Club in 2015. So tough.

However if the Bulldogs come to us with a juicy offer (and it would need to be), that would be another story.

My point is that there is no requirement, formal or informal, legal or moral, for Geelong to match that offer.

 

[Supercats]

Yes, and two of the more common refrains are "while he's still averaging 20 touches no youngster is pushing him out", or the more popular "there is no one ready to take his spot" (clearly having never heard of Jed Bews).

Jed BEWS, not pushing him out on last season form. Might lock down on a player, but lets first see him the get ball and do something with it.

 

[Partridge]

There's a difference between someone opining that Kelly was generally good last year (which he was) and still better than Bews, and someone claiming that Kelly should not spend any time in the VFL at all next year if he isn't good enough, which is what you were implying.

Right now I would very much dispute he's better than Bews as a small defender. I know who I'd be picking.

 

[Partridge]

Jed BEWS, not pushing him out on last season form. Might lock down on a player, but lets first see him the get ball and do something with it.

It's a matter of preferences.

I prefer a defender to be able to actually defend. And stay within the same postcode as his man occasionally too.

 

[go you pups]

Yes, we do have talented kids. That's not the point though.

But what's going to happen when Stevie J, Bartel, Kelly, Enright, Macintosh, Stokes et al retire all at once or within a season or so of each other? Having no retirements this year would not help for future cause, perhaps an earlier sacrifice would help you lot bridge the gap earlier for when the inevitable occurs? Otherwise Geelong will be a St Kilda MK2 type rebuild, going from just missing out on finals to 16th like what occurred for them in 2012-13 when a large number retired at once.

Surely every side is smarter with rebuilds than Carlton/Melbourne though, can't believe with what Carlton are doing right now.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Well I don't begrudge him wanting the security of a three-year offer, but the fact is he has committed to play for the Geelong Football Club in 2015. So tough.

However if the Bulldogs come to us with a juicy offer (and it would need to be), that would be another story.

My point is that there is no requirement, formal or informal, legal or moral, for Geelong to match that offer.

Yeah I do agree on all that.

I am just saying you can understand why he might be interested, I think it's fair enough given his age.

 

[Footy Smarts]

We don't have to match it.

It would be a pretty shit move to refuse to let him get a far better deal if he wants to leave. If he wants out we're best off just getting the best offer we can for him.

 

[Supercats]

It's a matter of preferences.

I prefer a defender to be able to actually defend. And stay within the same postcode as his man occasionally too.

Agreed, but they need some offensive to there game which Bews didn't show in any of his games. It will come, I hope, with a bit more experience.

I don't see why you think Kelly and Bews are playing off for a spot with each other. As I posted before, I don't think kelly is a backman as&*hole and was being played out of possession. Should be in the midfield/Wing or Rooke type role in the forward and bash and crash when the ball hits the ground.

 

[Overhang]

What a shitty week, to hear about the players we may be losing and then to come on here and read Biggy's usual rubbish about Scott.

 

[SJ]

It would be a pretty shit move to refuse to let him get a far better deal if he wants to leave. If he wants out we're best off just getting the best offer we can for him.

Isn't the worse move the one made by the party trying to break the contract in the first place?!

What do you think is the point of contracts?!

 

[Footy Smarts]

Well I don't begrudge him wanting the security of a three-year offer, but the fact is he has committed to play for the Geelong Football Club in 2015. So tough.

There's actually some interesting questions about limitations on free trade here. Is there any other job where an employer can force you not to work for another employer instead even if you've signed a contract? Generally there are arrangements for compensation and breaking contracts but it's almost impossible for an employer to actually be able to stop you from going somewhere else if you want.

 

[Supercats]

But what's going to happen when Stevie J, Bartel, Kelly, Enright, Macintosh, Stokes et al retire all at once or within a season or so of each other? Having no retirements this year would not help for future cause, perhaps an earlier sacrifice would help you lot bridge the gap earlier for when the inevitable occurs? Otherwise Geelong will be a St Kilda MK2 type rebuild, going from just missing out on finals to 16th like what occurred for them in 2012-13 when a large number retired at once.

Surely every side is smarter with rebuilds than Carlton/Melbourne though, can't believe with what Carlton are doing right now.

Mate, Geelong started the rebuild a few ago and they are not going to bottom out as St kilda have or your mob for that matter.

 

[Baudolino]

But what's going to happen when Stevie J, Bartel, Kelly, Enright, Macintosh, Stokes et al retire all at once or within a season or so of each other? Having no retirements this year would not help for future cause, perhaps an earlier sacrifice would help you lot bridge the gap earlier for when the inevitable occurs? Otherwise Geelong will be a St Kilda MK2 type rebuild, going from just missing out on finals to 16th like what occurred for them in 2012-13 when a large number retired at once.

I'm in favour of staggered retirements. But I also abhor the idea of pensioning players off while they still have something to offer - I subscribe to the theory that it is better to go on one year too long than one year too soon - and while it is true that staggered retirements are important, the medium and long-term purpose that that is in aid of must be balanced against the need to protect against the creation of unnecessary deficiencies in our list.

 

[SJ]

There's actually some interesting questions about limitations on free trade here. Is there any other job where an employer can force you not to work for another employer instead even if you've signed a contract? Generally there are arrangements for compensation and breaking contracts but it's almost impossible for an employer to actually be able to stop you from going somewhere else if you want.

Search for Buckenara v Hawthorn Football Club Ltd [1988].

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

He knows the coaching staff are willing to throw him out like old garbage the first chance they get. The fact that they so publicly and aggressively went after Frawley would have indicated to him that his days were numbered, and with memories of how club legends like Chapman, Corey, Podsiadly, and Hunt were treated fresh in his mind, he'd know what was coming.

Scott has completely undermined the culture that Thompson and the playing group of 07-11 worked so hard to build. He has treated the legends of the football club with nothing but disrespect, and done little to fill the void left by them. His list management and development tactics have been terrible, and will set this club back years.

Most of the posters in here are railing against the fact that we haven't given the young players enough chances - you think we've been too harsh on the older players?