Recommitted Tom Mitchell [contracted and staying at Hawthorn]

[chopflop]

What’s the consensus value of Mitchell? Can’t be bothered reading

Have to be draft picks now. Don't think we would hold much interest in any of your young squibs i.e., rozee, Bergman or butters

 

[Wargreymon90]

Have to be draft picks now. Don't think we would hold much interest in any of your young squibs i.e., rozee, Bergman or butters

Such unnecessary animosity.

what pick range?

 

[chopflop]

Such unnecessary animosity.

what pick range?

Sorry. Just a fun one. Differs on our boards. Pragmatists are generally around selection 10. Some say 2 first and others say one late first. Imo it would take a pick between 8 and 12 and anything later would need some sweetening like a pick upgrade etc. He is contracted got 2 more and like Neale he is into his backended years. ITKs have said unlikely we make any big moves but if someone leaves we wont be rolling over at the trade table. Hope that helps

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If blues miss on Cerra I’d happily offer up our 2022 first round pick. We should (in theory at least) look to for challenge for finals and beyond from next year and with Murph, Betts, and Cas leaving we have very little to no players in the 28+ bracket with only Curnow and Jones in this age bracket off the top of my head. Feels like a fair deal for both sides..

Yuck. No thanks

 

[hawkman]

This is why he occasionally gets it and dumps it, but again, if he was in a side with a more balanced midfield, with more runners who can use it, his ability to get the ball becomes a weapon, like it was in 2018, when we finished 5th.

That and our tall forwards don't get on the move a lot so eventually he has to dump it inand it looks like a poor option

 

[Blackhawk42]

That and our tall forwards don't get on the move a lot so eventually he has to dump it inand it looks like a poor option

That's going to change next season at least if Box Hills game style is any indication.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

At least Neale doesn't blindly bomb it forward to packs anywhere near as much as Mitchell.
Mitchell also loves statpadding his uncontested possessions, even though he's largely ineffective with them.

You have no idea if you think Mitchell is a statpadder. Never gives off the ball hoping to get it straight back like others I won’t mention. Hope he stays and we keep adding class and pace around him (hopefully Day, Bramble, Scrimshaw, Downie and whom we draft this year can fill this void) to compliment his skill set.

 

[almuz]

Talia to Tigers rumours suggest they are still in win now mode.

I think Mitchell makes sense to Richmond, an A grade mid to contribute to big games now rather than lament Collier-Dawkins, Naish, Ross or whoever else not getting it done vs Dees/Dogs in 22-23 (note they are different players but you get the idea Titch > those guys).

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Superstar.

 

[headhoncho]

Is this about right. Richmond pick 7 for Mitchell + what ever our second pick is think 21.

 

[kenneje]

Can't see any team parting with a top 10 pick for him (fair enough) and any pick later than 10 won't be enough considering his importance to the team and our lack of midfield depth.

As much as I'm sure 'whispers are heating up' lol, I just can't see how this gets done.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Is this about right. Richmond pick 7 for Mitchell + what ever our second pick is think 21.

We aint sending any picks back and pick 7 straight would be the minimum.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We aint sending any picks back and pick 7 straight would be the minimum.

Mark McKenzie, is that you?

 

[hairy biker]

This thread has become a bit rinse and repeat;

Other clubs' supporters; "we're really not that interested"
Hawthorn supporters; "he's worth an early first rd pick at the minimum"
Other clubs'supporters; "we're really not that interested"
Hawthorn supporters; "we'll keep him then"
Other clubs' supporters; "OK"
Hawthorn supporters; "He's had a great season, better than Neale's, he's worth an early first rd pick at the minimum"
Other clubs' supporters; "honestly, we're really not that interested"

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Mark McKenzie, is that you?

Yes.

 

[chopflop]

This thread has become a bit rinse and repeat;

Other clubs' supporters; "we're really not that interested"
Hawthorn supporters; "he's worth an early first rd pick at the minimum"
Other clubs'supporters; "we're really not that interested"
Hawthorn supporters; "we'll keep him then"
Other clubs' supporters; "OK"
Hawthorn supporters; "He's had a great season, better than Neale's, he's worth an early first rd pick at the minimum"
Other clubs' supporters; "honestly, we're really not that interested"

Brilliant. Us Hawks are so conflicted in this. We know he is a good player but we can't admit to ourselves we would love to jettison him so we can salivate over more phantom drafts. I for one would let him go for any first round pick because I just want to see more CBAs for worpel, Nash and Newcombe. But whatever, he stays he stays, he goes he goes.

 

[RoyalTigerrr]

You have no idea if you think Mitchell is a statpadder. Never gives off the ball hoping to get it straight back like others I won’t mention. Hope he stays and we keep adding class and pace around him (hopefully Day, Bramble, Scrimshaw, Downie and whom we draft this year can fill this void) to compliment his skill set.

Um, yes he does. In fact, he was doing that way too much earlier in the year to the point he was copping a lot of criticism.

 

[RoyalTigerrr]

LOL, Titch as i said won a brownlow, Neale has won a brownlow. Both pretty similar overall in career etc but Titch was so far ahead in 2021 it's not funny. I get Neale had injuries but **** if he's 2/3 firsts than so is Titch

Neale was traded to Brisbane for picks 6 and 19. Fremantle also had to give 30 along with Neale.
This is also a 25 year old Neale, Mitchell is 29 next year. Also no matter how much you try to argue, Neale is a much classier footballer than Mitchell.

At best, you will get the same compensation Brisbane got for Dayne Beams, and that's assuming clubs haven't learned their lesson about overpaying for old players.

, i don't think either are but yeah. They are very similar players aswell. Also Titch doesn't statpad, there's no such thing for the most part, unless you're ziebell doing kick to kicks. His possessions he gets off HB or whatever isn't him getting the team into a hole, as shown by his 2nd half of 2021 (no pre season) he was one of the best mids in the comp, was kicking goals, linking up and helping the team and relieving pressure off HB while winning it from the source and running both ways. Severely underrated. Bombing it forward is funny because literally most of the comp would bomb it forward if they don't have a running option next to them (to handball to) or time and space to run and kick. Or no options wide to hit a short kick to.

Yes he does, especially earlier in the year. So many times he called for the handball from bad positions, only to aimlessly bomb it forward. He did this even when there were better targets, which he should've been helping his team mates identify, instead of just always calling for the ball himself.

Bombing it forward is funny because literally most of the comp would bomb it forward if they don't have a running option next to them (to handball to) or time and space to run and kick. Or no options wide to hit a short kick to.

There's a difference between players like Tom Mitchell and say, Jackson Macrae. Both of them accumulate a lot of possessions, but Macrae identifies and hits players in space far more than Mitchell, who is much more likely to kick it forward aimlessly. This is also why there is a big discrepancy in goal assists and score involvements.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Neale was traded to Brisbane for picks 6 and 19. Fremantle also had to give 30 along with Neale.
This is also a 25 year old Neale, Mitchell is 29 next year. Also no matter how much you try to argue, Neale is a much classier footballer than Mitchell.

At best, you will get the same compensation Brisbane got for Dayne Beams, and that's assuming clubs haven't learned their lesson about overpaying for old players.

Yes he does, especially earlier in the year. So many times he called for the handball from bad positions, only to aimlessly bomb it forward. He did this even when there were better targets, which he should've been helping his team mates identify, instead of just always calling for the ball himself.

There's a difference between players like Tom Mitchell and say, Jackson Macrae. Both of them accumulate a lot of possessions, but Macrae identifies and hits players in space far more than Mitchell, who is much more likely to kick it forward aimlessly. This is also why there is a big discrepancy in goal assists and score involvements.

Beams then to Titch now isn't close, Beams wasn't one of the best mids in the comp and didn't have a brownlow, no matter how much you argue Neale and Titch are literally almost identical footballers except Titch does it better.

You say this but Macrae was in one of the best teams this year and they made a grandfinal he has good players around him to give the ball to for score involvements and to kick it to or get it to for goal assists. Mitchell doesn't, even in 2018 when we made the top 4 and went out in straight sets, our team was entirely him. It was really him, a couple of good outside players, some unreal forwards but only having 2 and one being a medium and one is a third tall who played like a smaller player. Like it's just so different, if you put Mitchell in the Dogs side in the form he was at the end of the year or in 2018 he'd average alot of Score involvements and goal assists aswell as goals himself and winning it from the source better than anyone else.

There's a stat i was given by a mate who has a YT channel who loves stats and it was from 2015-2020 or there abouts Tom Mitchell was the 2nd best for efficiency. Had the most time spent inside midfield (Macrae was 1st and spent about half the time inside that Mitchell did).

Neale is worth whatever Titch is worth, visa versa.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Neale was traded to Brisbane for picks 6 and 19. Fremantle also had to give 30 along with Neale.
This is also a 25 year old Neale, Mitchell is 29 next year. Also no matter how much you try to argue, Neale is a much classier footballer than Mitchell.

At best, you will get the same compensation Brisbane got for Dayne Beams, and that's assuming clubs haven't learned their lesson about overpaying for old players.

Yes he does, especially earlier in the year. So many times he called for the handball from bad positions, only to aimlessly bomb it forward. He did this even when there were better targets, which he should've been helping his team mates identify, instead of just always calling for the ball himself.

There's a difference between players like Tom Mitchell and say, Jackson Macrae. Both of them accumulate a lot of possessions, but Macrae identifies and hits players in space far more than Mitchell, who is much more likely to kick it forward aimlessly. This is also why there is a big discrepancy in goal assists and score involvements.

Also he doesn't stat pad, there isn't a thing unless it's literally a kick to kick in the defensive 50.

 

[RoyalTigerrr]

Beams then to Titch now isn't close, Beams wasn't one of the best mids in the comp and didn't have a brownlow, no matter how much you argue Neale and Titch are literally almost identical footballers except Titch does it better.

Let me get this straight; the Brownlow is your only basis for saying Mitchell is better than Beams? And equal with Neale?

Who gives a crap about Brownlows? It's just an umpires award. Shane Woewodin won a Brownlow. Matt Priddis won a Brownlow. Jobe Watson won a Brownlow. Adam Cooney won a Brownlow. Does that make them automatically better than every player that hasn't won a Brownlow? No.

Dayne Beams at his best was clearly a better player than Mitchell because he was genuinely damaging by foot, and could kick goals from 60 meters out. 30 disposals from Beams were easily more damaging than 40 disposals from Mitchell. For all your carrying on about the Brownlow, I distinctly remember Mitchell had two 45+ disposal games against Brisbane in 2018 and got 0 votes between them, while Beams got 4. It's not just Beams either, there are several non-Brownlow winners I would easily rate above Tom Mitchell: Scott Pendlebury, Daniel Kerr, Lenny Hayes, Marcus Bontempelli, Trent Cotchin, David Mundy, Shaun Burgoyne, Nick Dal Santo, Callan Ward, Christian Petracca and so on. For whatever the difference in disposal averages there might be, they're effective in so many other areas, whether it be kicking, marking, versatility, power, and so on.

You say this but Macrae was in one of the best teams this year and they made a grandfinal he has good players around him to give the ball to for score involvements and to kick it to or get it to for goal assists.

Lol what?
You act like Macrae isn't one of the main BIG reasons the Bulldogs aren't one of the best teams; like he isn't one of the best distributors of the ball in the AFL. Guess what? He was also far more damaging than Mitchell by foot back in 2018, when Hawthorn finished top 4 and the Doggies finished bottom 6 and had no forward line.

if you put Mitchell in the Dogs side in the form he was at the end of the year or in 2018 he'd average alot of Score involvements and goal assists aswell as goals himself and winning it from the source better than anyone else.

This is some of the most bizarre worship of a single player I've ever seen.
I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get a game. I would wager more than one club would prefer Liberatore, primarily on the basis of being damaging by foot.

There's a stat i was given by a mate who has a YT channel who loves stats and it was from 2015-2020 or there abouts Tom Mitchell was the 2nd best for efficiency

Because it's easy to inflate your efficiency when you go for so many one-two handballs.
Gary Ablett Jnr did them a lot as well, but he was also an amazing kick of the ball, and could kick massive goals from 60m out. Again, this is the difference between a truly great player and Tom Mitchell.

Neale is worth whatever Titch is worth, visa versa.

No he isn't. Neale is more damaging.
Neale was also 25 when he (and pick 30) was traded for picks 6 and 19. Mitchell turns 29 next year, he's not worth as much as you think he is.

 

[RoyalTigerrr]

Also he doesn't stat pad, there isn't a thing unless it's literally a kick to kick in the defensive 50.

If you're going to be selective with the definition of stat padding, you can convince yourself that nobody stat pads.

Mitchell goes for one-two handballs all the time, and very frequently calls for team mates to give him the ball, instead of pointing towards better options. This was especially noticable earlier in the year, like your round 8 pounding against the Eagles.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Let me get this straight; the Brownlow is your only basis for saying Mitchell is better than Beams? And equal with Neale?

Who gives a crap about Brownlows? It's just an umpires award. Shane Woewodin won a Brownlow. Matt Priddis won a Brownlow. Jobe Watson won a Brownlow. Adam Cooney won a Brownlow. Does that make them automatically better than every player that hasn't won a Brownlow? No.

Dayne Beams at his best was clearly a better player than Mitchell because he was genuinely damaging by foot, and could kick goals from 60 meters out. 30 disposals from Beams were easily more damaging than 40 disposals from Mitchell. For all your carrying on about the Brownlow, I distinctly remember Mitchell had two 45+ disposal games against Brisbane in 2018 and got 0 votes between them, while Beams got 4. It's not just Beams either, there are several non-Brownlow winners I would easily rate above Tom Mitchell: Scott Pendlebury, Daniel Kerr, Lenny Hayes, Marcus Bontempelli, Trent Cotchin, David Mundy, Shaun Burgoyne, Nick Dal Santo, Callan Ward, Christian Petracca and so on. For whatever the difference in disposal averages there might be, they're effective in so many other areas, whether it be kicking, marking, versatility, power, and so on.


Lol what?
You act like Macrae isn't one of the main BIG reasons the Bulldogs aren't one of the best teams; like he isn't one of the best distributors of the ball in the AFL. Guess what? He was also far more damaging than Mitchell by foot back in 2018, when Hawthorn finished top 4 and the Doggies finished bottom 6 and had no forward line.


This is some of the most bizarre worship of a single player I've ever seen.
I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get a game. I would wager more than one club would prefer Liberatore, primarily on the basis of being damaging by foot.


Because it's easy to inflate your efficiency when you go for so many one-two handballs.
Gary Ablett Jnr did them a lot as well, but he was also an amazing kick of the ball, and could kick massive goals from 60m out. Again, this is the difference between a truly great player and Tom Mitchell.


No he isn't. Neale is more damaging.
Neale was also 25 when he (and pick 30) was traded for picks 6 and 19. Mitchell turns 29 next year, he's not worth as much as you think he is.

No? I'm giving it as an example. It's the most prestigious award you can get, that's why it's an example. Mitchell and Neale are similar players, both have brownlows etc. It's not that it makes someone automatically better, Leigh Matthews is arguably the GOAT and never won one. It's obviously alot different now and things like comparing players using awards is common.

Beams overall in his career was better so far, Mitchell could in the future beat him in career wise, needs to put together consistent seasons into his 30s, was in good form late in the season so could be up there in awards again.

No one cares if you can kick them from 70 out, Trent McKenzie has an absolute cannon but it doesn't make him better than someone haha.

And 100% players aren't just judged on Disposals, Mitchell is not. He's an absolute clearance beast and has one of the highest clearances per game seasons in a full season + finals out of literally any brownlow medalist ever really. He's a beast at the stoppages and is able to go forward, his defensive side of his game (tackling etc) is also very good. It's a balanced game, unlike a Dusty who is more set on going forward and kicking more goals and being involved with scoring and can be a liability on defense.

He is, but so was Mitchell in 2018 with a much worse team and finished 4th. He's a good ball user no doubt but my stat literally stands the same.

It's not worship, it's showing people who aren't so well versed in information or have a poor opinion for a discussion about a player, you seem to not rate him at all and would have him as "overrated" i would guess.

You wouldn't be surprised if Tom Mitchell didn't get a game? what..?

You just put Libba and damaging by foot in the same sentence, okay i think i'm almost done here.

"one two handballs" as you said Ablett did them, players do them because it relieves pressure, mostly in 2018 or when Titch is playing well and inform he does it still but is more confident in driving with the footy, unlike early in the year where he was bombing it and he has good reason, wasn't confident in his body and just came back from injury again. Broken leg and then had a Shoulder Reco that off season, which means not a full pre season, hasn't had a full uninterrupted pre season since 2018.

Mitchell is worth what Neale is now, which everyone was saying around a good first or a first and change and some even 2 firsts. Plus the Brissy fans who said 3 firsts LOL!

 

[Dewyyyyy]

If you're going to be selective with the definition of stat padding, you can convince yourself that nobody stat pads.

Mitchell goes for one-two handballs all the time, and very frequently calls for team mates to give him the ball, instead of pointing towards better options. This was especially noticable earlier in the year, like your round 8 pounding against the Eagles.

You can say what you want but when Mitchell plays well, we usually do aswell, late in 2021. 2018. etc. When he's not in form or not confident he usually still does the same things but just does it at a lower standard. Early 2021 is an example of this.

You mention the Eagles game but he literally had 17 CP and the most on the ground. Even in a form slump which he didn't break and dominate consistently till post bye.