Top 15 players 07 - 09 Drafts

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

How well was Thomas going in his 3rd year?

No good? He's turned out OK in the end. Carry on.

Thomas was being played strictly as a small forward but he always had the freak about him, there was always an x-factor. He was taking huge grabs and kicking great goals. Still I think the hype on him was unjustified in comparison to his output, and again that was because he was drafted at no.2.

Even so Thomas was more similar to Ablett Jr in that anyone could see there was talent, but the question was would they get the best out of themselves? COuld they become midfielders? Not saying anyone could have predicted that Ablett would become as good as he has, but his first 3 years showed enough to suggest he could be a star. He kicked 26 goals in his second year and 35 in his third. Thomas kicked 19 in his second and 23 in his third.

There is a chance that Trengove could be like Thomas and Ablett and that he could explode in year 4 or 5, but I don't think it should just be expected. There are plenty of kids that show Daisy like potential in their first 2 or 3 seasons and never come on to be stars, luckily for us Daisy did.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I can vouch that Thomas is the biggest freak of all time, all you need to do is watch him at training and his ability is obvious.

He hasn't even scraped his ceiling.

 

[Patron]

None of melbourne's picks warrant being considered top 5 in either of their drafts. The reason melbourne are struggling so badly is because with picks 1,1 and 2 they netted watts, scully (admitedly gone) and trengrove. That really is just a terrible result. With similar picks at similar times richmond got Deledio, Cotchin and Martin with 1,2 and 3 whilst Carlton got Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer with 1,1 and 1.
That really is a horrendous result for melbourne.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Has tailed off as the year went on. IIRC torched GWS & Dees?

Nowhere near Cotchin.

Touched up the Hawks and destroyed North Melbourne and StKilda.

Nowhere near Cotchin isn't close to reality. He's not as good as Cotchin that i don't doubt. Selwoods general statistical advantage does mask the fact Cotchin is getting tagged, kicks the ball more and takes more contested marks,ut his advantage still exists and that makes him under valued going by this thread. Running at 80% efficency.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

None of melbourne's picks warrant being considered top 5 in either of their drafts. The reason melbourne are struggling so badly is because with picks 1,1 and 2 they netted watts, scully (admitedly gone) and trengrove. That really is just a terrible result. With similar picks at similar times richmond got Deledio, Cotchin and Martin with 1,2 and 3 whilst Carlton got Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer with 1,1 and 1.
That really is a horrendous result for melbourne.

Well, considering we now only have two of our top picks to the others three I don't see how it's relevant to compare....

And secondly it's hardly a 'horrendous result'.

Watts and Trengove are the same age and both have a lot of development left in them.

But you are comparing them to players who (apart from Martin) have at least two seasons of full time AFL football advantage on them.

 

[Spluff]

Trengove will be a great player, though I'm not sure he has the pace to be a game breaker like many others mentioned in this thread. He has every other trait you could possibly want, not to mention an incredible determination to succeed and drag everybody else along with him whilst doing it.

 

[yaco55]

Comparing Beams first two years with Trengove - Beams is definitely ahead - And Beams has stepped it up in his fourth year.

 

[Tulip]

I'd argue that you'd have to take into account who Beams has supporting him and who Trengove has around him to get an even comparison.

 

[yaco55]

I'd argue that you'd have to take into account who Beams has supporting him and who Trengove has around him to get an even comparison.

Stop making excuses - Trengove played in a winning team last night and still found it a struggle.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I didn't think he struggled, he played a solid game.

 

[Tulip]

25 touches. I suppose you watched with the usual blinkers?

 

[yaco55]

I didn't think he struggled, he played a solid game.

Yes - He played a better game - But he is still a fair way behind Beams at the same stage of their career.

And as another comparison - He is a fair way behind Zaharakis at the same stage.

We will revisit Trengrove's progress in three years time.

 

[nikolasmia]

cotchin 1 martin 2 and rance in the top 10

 

[nikolasmia]

Zaharakis? Would have him over Beams, but I'm biased

why isnt rance in any of these teams?

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

I'd argue that you'd have to take into account who Beams has supporting him and who Trengove has around him to get an even comparison.

Or you can look at it like this, out of the 2008 draft nobody has had more possessions than Beams. Out of the 2008 draft only 2 players have kicked more goals Garlett and Ballantyne both mature age recruits.

Beams missed the last 6 weeks of the preseason which included nab cup and round one and is still averaging 29 possessions a game. 31 possessions and 6.2 clearances a game over the last seven games since he took Balls spot in the midfield. He has been more consistant than any player from the 2008 draft.

You'd still easily take Nic Nat 1, Hurley two in that draft though. And who he is better than who, who knows but the guy is better than people give him credit for.

 

[Patron]

Beams definitely gets underrated in these types of things (coming from somebody who underrates beams in myself). The reason imo or at least the reason i would pick other players like shuey, zaha and redden ahead of him is because of hurt factor and ceiling. I just feel his disposal, line breaking ability etc isn't as good as the others mentioned.
2008 in a few years will look like the best draft since 2001 without doubt.

 

[Number 10]

Beams definitely gets underrated in these types of things (coming from somebody who underrates beams in myself). The reason imo or at least the reason i would pick other players like shuey, zaha and redden ahead of him is because of hurt factor and ceiling. I just feel his disposal, line breaking ability etc isn't as good as the others mentioned.
2008 in a few years will look like the best draft since 2001 without doubt.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I would like to point out to you as a fact that in 2010 (where he played 21 games) he had the highest retention rate kicking inside 50 in the whole competition, meaning that his kicks inside 50 were the most effective in the competition. I think this has some "hurt factor", however, once again, you are entitled to your own opinion on how you rate a player.

 

[tigs2010]

Touched up the Hawks and destroyed North Melbourne and StKilda.

Nowhere near Cotchin isn't close to reality. He's not as good as Cotchin that i don't doubt. Selwoods general statistical advantage does mask the fact Cotchin is getting tagged, kicks the ball more and takes more contested marks,ut his advantage still exists and that makes him under valued going by this thread. Running at 80% efficency.

You owe Greg Miller as much as the Doggies do. We would have taken Selwood with the McMuffin pick.

Cotchin, Rance, Selwood would have been a sweet draft.

 

[Patron]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I would like to point out to you as a fact that in 2010 (where he played 21 games) he had the highest retention rate kicking inside 50 in the whole competition, meaning that his kicks inside 50 were the most effective in the competition. I think this has some "hurt factor", however, once again, you are entitled to your own opinion on how you rate a player.

His DE is lower than players like Shuey and sidebottom etc. Overall i would say he is less effective.

 

[Slattery_20]

DE is not really a great measure of hurt factor.
Unless you really consider Dale Morris/Zac Dawson types to have a high "hurt factor" compared to Ablett/Franklin.
I don't.
The guys who end up with high DE often limit themselves to kicking 20m sideways because that's the only kick they can reliably make

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Agree with Slatts, hurt factor is more about what you create than hitting every single target.

 

[Patron]

DE is not really a great measure of hurt factor.
Unless you really consider Dale Morris/Zac Dawson types to have a high "hurt factor" compared to Ablett/Franklin.
I don't.
The guys who end up with high DE often limit themselves to kicking 20m sideways because that's the only kick they can reliably make

No those two players are defenders. All defenders have high DE due to the nature of their disposals. Beams doesn't break lines and his kicking isn't as good as previously mentioned players. He lacks the flash of other players in 2008 eg. Shuey, Sidebottom, Zaharakis.

 

[Number 10]

No those two players are defenders. All defenders have high DE due to the nature of their disposals. Beams doesn't break lines and his kicking isn't as good as previously mentioned players. He lacks the flash of other players in 2008 eg. Shuey, Sidebottom, Zaharakis.

Sidebottom is as slow as a boot and has no flash, he is just very smart. Beams has pace but is not a wingman who runs as soon as he gets the ball, he is one of our strongest players over the ball, rarely gets pushed to ground in a contest and uses the ball by foot extremely well especially with the nature of his possessions. I'm not sure what else he can do for you to think he can hurt teams. Maybe just watch him play against your mob.

 

[smiddaz123]

No those two players are defenders. All defenders have high DE due to the nature of their disposals. Beams doesn't break lines and his kicking isn't as good as previously mentioned players. He lacks the flash of other players in 2008 eg. Shuey, Sidebottom, Zaharakis.

Completely untrue for Sidebottom and Redden (who you mentioned earlier). Shuey and Zaharakis play with more flair, yes. I'd argue this is offset by the fact Beams is a lot better inside than Zaharakis though.

Redden neither breaks the lines more or uses the ball better than Beams. Very good inside player in his own right though, and solid with the ball in hand.

Beams has far more pace than Sidebottom and a much more penetrating boot. No idea where you got the idea Sidebottom plays with more flash, it's well off the mark. Really questioning how much of Collingwood you've even seen to be honest if this is how you see them.

 

[headache1]

cotchin 1 martin 2 and rance in the top 10

Oh dear...