Opinion Trade Aggressively

[couldhavebeen]

Talk to McCarthy before he has even played a game?

As others have stated GWS and Gold Coast were given trade concessions to get started . The AFL "suggested that GWS and Gold Coast use those generous picks to be used as bait to secure trades with established Clubs" .GWS decided to keep them and not trade .

Everyone knew that the AFL got out smarted because GWS used all the priority draft picks and took the best of the best so ends the history lesson .
If our management were up to speed then YES we should have and should be talking to trade target player managers NOW not what for the news headline that so and so wants to leave or Joe Blow has refused to sign a new contract until season end . Those guys mostly have already got a deal done and no mater how much you may want them they are gone .

 

[tacopavlich]

in hindsight. Like I said.
In hindsight McGovern is a contested marking beast and a superb footballer, full of heart, effort and creativity.
It is not unreasonable to suggest that people who are paid money for the business of identifying good footballers could have been expected to identify McGovern as a good footballer.

Its just the way recruiting is, you can only have a vague idea about how kids will mature and develop as footballers and it can just be a lottery at times.

I dont think you can judge a club that harshly on who you pick up, rather it's how you develop them. Its more about club culture than anything. I'd rather pass judgement on how well Taberner and Pearce grow as players than play hindsight warrior in the draft. For strong clubs it doesnt matter.

West Coast seem to be really good at training key position players, not that they're just really lucky at drafting them.

 

[Docker82]

I find it interesting that everyone blames out list management team without taking into consideration the fact that GWS and GC had all their drafting concessions in the 2010 - 2013 drafts.

Sydney, Geelong and the Hawks already had good lists before 2010 and guess what - they've been the most successful teams in the last few years.

We were coming off a rebuilding phase and haven't been able to top up with top shelf draft picks. Hence we've been stuck in no-mans land. Add in the "I don't wanna live in Perth" factor and we've really been fighting with one hand tied behind our backs.

I reckon we've done a pretty good job considering!

In 2010, we finished 6th overall. That would've given us pick 11 without GCS coming in. Pick 11 was Tom Lynch.

In 2011, we finished 11th. Without GCS and GWS in the draft we'd have pick 6. That was Wingard but Tomlinson was still available.

In 2013 I have no doubt McCarthy would've slipped to us without GWS existing.


That's life though. We have what we have. You can only do the best you can do with what you are given and we didn't have those picks. We've only really overlooked Darling and only really stuffed up the Clark trade (blessing disguise in hindsight). Excuses will get us no where. Imagine if CC hadn't traded for Chris Tarrant. We could've had Ben Reid, Nathan Brown, James Frawley or Jack Riewoldt on our list and we'd probably have a premiership right now. Means nothing.

 

[Nickos66]

West Coast seem to be really good at training key position players, not that they're just really lucky at drafting them.

How do you deduce this, if you don't mind me asking? Not that I have a strong opposition to it, but do you have any info to back it up?

 

[tacopavlich]

How do you deduce this, if you don't mind me asking? Not that I have a strong opposition to it, but do you have any info to back it up?

Lol nope, just my opinion.

 

[free at last]

To raise another point of discussion, it's interesting that we've so firmly and publicly committed to bringing McCarthy home this time next year when:

1) We'll be chasing Hogan just as hard and if we're any chance he'll be given preference to any 1st round draft pick we're still capable of being allowed to trade
2) having traded out our 1st round pick this year we're only allowed to trade out 1 more in the next 4 years so if we're anywhere near the ballpark of #1 above.. well, you'd think our stance would probably soften on any McCarthy trade as a preference to Hogan, should that become a possibility.

we'll hopefully have to get either McCarthy or hogan via the PSD then

 

[ilikepotatoes]

we'll hopefully have to get either McCarthy or hogan via the PSD then

Or McCarthy's value goes down due to his home sickness. Comes cheaply.

 

[Banker]

If McK scores 45+ goals, I think we will see a meltdown.

Suppose we will get to see what 'might' have been depending how he goes next season.

 

[Sweetback]

If McK scores 45+ goals, I think we will see a meltdown.

Suppose we will get to see what 'might' have been depending how he goes next season.

There will only be a meltdown if he re-signs with GWS. If he kicks 45+ goals and doesn't sign the contract put in front of him and says, 'I'm still going home to Freo and you could have gotten more for me last year', then there will be wild ejaculations on the streets of Fremantle town.

 

[free at last]

If McK scores 45+ goals, I think we will see a meltdown.

Suppose we will get to see what 'might' have been depending how he goes next season.

45+ gls will have his value go through the roof.I'll be happy with subtle improvement with no injuries.

 

[free at last]

Or McCarthy's value goes down due to his home sickness. Comes cheaply.

One first rounder will be perfect

 

[Freo88]

If McCarthy kicks over 40 goals next that would be fantastic. I'm sure we'll all be cheering him on to do it too.

The only 'what could have been' will be in an alternate universe where GWS were actually prepared to sit down at the trade table.

 

[free at last]

If McCarthy kicks over 40 goals next that would be fantastic. I'm sure we'll all be cheering him on to do it too.

The only 'what could have been' will be in an alternate universe where GWS were actually prepared to sit down at the trade table.

If Cam sticks to his word,GWS will definitely make their way to the trade table but they'll still be absolute ****wits no doubt!

 

[Freo88]

If Cam sticks to his word,GWS will definitely make their way to the trade table but they'll still be absolute ****wits no doubt!

Yes agree 100%. A lot will depend on how Cam conducts himself this year in and around the club as to how willing they will be to trade. Like most clubs they'll back themselves to turn his home-sickness around. Not sure they'll be able to turn his disdain for Western Sydney as an area around though. If we can at least get them to the trade table next year, that will be big in itself.

It's certainly a double edged sword - he improves next year - great, we'll have more of an idea what we're trading for. But it'll cost us.
On the flip side if his year isn't great, we may get him cheaper, but there will be question marks on the deal and people will be saying he didn't play well because of extenuating circumstances. Interesting year ahead no doubt for Cam.

 

[apparentlydead]

If McK scores 45+ goals, I think we will see a meltdown.

Suppose we will get to see what 'might' have been depending how he goes next season.

The implication being, of course, that we should have got him.

Now please, for the very last time, and in the futile hope that it will stop your never ending tears...


WHAT ELSE COULD WE HAVE DONE TO SECURE CAM?

 

[Grape Bear]

The implication being, of course, that we should have got him.

Now please, for the very last time, and in the futile hope that it will stop your never ending tears...


WHAT ELSE COULD WE HAVE DONE TO SECURE CAM?

Trade Fyfe. Or Sonson. Or Neale.

And give three future first rounders. Plus change.

 

[Silversurfer]

What if...the freo brains trust went after McCarthy as a smoke screen to soothe the impatient fans. After the Boyd backflip last year, GWS were always going to take a stand. They have blatantly hoarded the best key forwards for the last few years in a smart move to create a great war chest to play with and sell off to the highest bidders. The media push thier own adjendas with this stuff further reducing our chances. I would like to think that Bond knew that we wouldn't get the deal done this year but went through the motions to keep us all happy. Hogan is the real target i believe and i wouldn't be at all surprised if Cam McCarthy never plays for Fremantle. I love a good conspiracy and hope that Hogan has a smarter manager than Cam does. That fool has cost his client a big stack of cash and if i was Cam I would fire his ass for offering up bad advise. He may very well have missed the opportunity to play for the club he grew up supporting for ever. If Bondy is playing the game chasing the biggest fish, Cam is undersize and will be thrown back into the water.

 

[apparentlydead]

What if...the freo brains trust went after McCarthy as a smoke screen to soothe the impatient fans. After the Boyd backflip last year, GWS were always going to take a stand. They have blatantly hoarded the best key forwards for the last few years in a smart move to create a great war chest to play with and sell off to the highest bidders. The media push thier own adjendas with this stuff further reducing our chances. I would like to think that Bond knew that we wouldn't get the deal done this year but went through the motions to keep us all happy. Hogan is the real target i believe and i wouldn't be at all surprised if Cam McCarthy never plays for Fremantle. I love a good conspiracy and hope that Hogan has a smarter manager than Cam does. That fool has cost his client a big stack of cash and if i was Cam I would fire his ass for offering up bad advise. He may very well have missed the opportunity to play for the club he grew up supporting for ever. If Bondy is playing the game chasing the biggest fish, Cam is undersize and will be thrown back into the water.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forums/conspiracies-mysteries-and-the-paranormal.159/

 

[rodney hoo]

The implication being, of course, that we should have got him.

Now please, for the very last time, and in the futile hope that it will stop your never ending tears...


WHAT ELSE COULD WE HAVE DONE TO SECURE CAM?

No one really knows what went on but Lloyd himself said that originally they offered this years 1st and next years, but got rejected early so they went with 22 this year and 1st next year after the Harley trade. Again GWS were behaving in a stalling fashion so trying to put all the pieces together, it was also confirmed that no Freo player was offered.
So if everything I have written above is correct, IMO a player should have been chucked in as well, maybe Barlow, or temp them with pick 5 that Saints had earlier in the trade period. How do we get 5 well on the last day again on trade radio they were suggesting that Weller was happy to stay but would cop the trade. ( again this was no confirmed by Freo), but if correct and again I'm only guessing and I have backed our recruiting regularly I think we should have gone harder earlier.
Again it's just an opinion but sometimes you want it you got bash the door down.

 

[apparentlydead]

No one really knows what went on but Lloyd himself said that originally they offered this years 1st and next years, but got rejected early so they went with 22 this year and 1st next year after the Harley trade. Again GWS were behaving in a stalling fashion so trying to put all the pieces together, it was also confirmed that no Freo player was offered.
So if everything I have written above is correct, IMO a player should have been chucked in as well, maybe Barlow, or temp them with pick 5 that Saints had earlier in the trade period. How do we get 5 well on the last day again on trade radio they were suggesting that Weller was happy to stay but would cop the trade. ( again this was no confirmed by Freo), but if correct and again I'm only guessing and I have backed our recruiting regularly I think we should have gone harder earlier.
Again it's just an opinion but sometimes you want it you got bash the door down.

With all due respect, I'm not going to be hiring you any time soon to negotiate my contracts.

The art of negotiation is not where you start, but where you finish. However you ALWAYS have a predetermined top value on your target and you NEVER deviate from that limit.

We've shown that in the Mitch Clark negotiations and we obviously weren't going to go completely berko with this deal.

2 first rounders FFS for a kid that has shown something for ONE year. Mate, that is overs and more than enough.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I'm expressing frustration from the outside looking in and Fremantle are not as professional as we wish it was but has improved vastly from where we have ever been .
I think the club needs to re examine how we go about procuring players that we see as an improvement on what we have . We have all seen the Club go after some high profile player but not land them because of many reasons but could it be that we haven't identified them early enough and opposition clubs have been talking to their managers years before any trade talk has appeared in the press .
The McCarthy deal looked so lame when he had signed a contract extension before we have tried to lure him home .

WE want Hogan but Hogan has signed a contract extension so I'm sorry we will never see him IMHO . Our recruiters need to be talking to the managers of any of last years top draft picks now with a view of possible recruitment before they extent their contract .

Hogan respectfully declined a contract extension then followed it up with social media photo of Perth.
This will test us in two years when his contract expires. Fair to say he is within reach.

 

[rodney hoo]

With all due respect, I'm not going to be hiring you any time soon to negotiate my contracts.

The art of negotiation is not where you start, but where you finish. However you ALWAYS have a predetermined top value on your target and you NEVER deviate from that limit.

We've shown that in the Mitch Clark negotiations and we obviously weren't going to go completely berko with this deal.

2 first rounders FFS for a kid that has shown something for ONE year. Mate, that is overs and more than enough.

You are probably fight but if he came over and we won the flag you would think it cheap. When you look what Dixon to port and Trelor to pies that's what was around their cost and they were out of contract.

 

[scon]

The horse traders know what the nag's worth and Lloyd made it clear no-one was in any doubt it was a realistic and generous offer.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

we'll hopefully have to get either McCarthy or hogan via the PSD then

I would be confident in saying we are planning for these two players right now.
We are probably a chance of Cameron next year which would require our first round pick or a quality player.
Jess Hogan would take at least two 1st rounders which we could organize with utilizing 2017 & 2018 picks plus player(s).
This means going for Cam in 2016 and Jesse in 2017. I would say it is impossible to get both these Boys in the same year.

 

[free at last]

I would be confident in saying we are planning for these two players right now.
We are probably a chance of Cameron next year which would require our first round pick or a quality player.
Jess Hogan would take at least two 1st rounders which we could organize with utilizing 2017 & 2018 picks plus player(s).

Or he walks into the the PSD if Melbourne's demands are totally over the top and we offer him a $3.0mil 1 yr contract like Taylor suggested.