List Mgmt. Trade and F/A 2020 Cont’d

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dansa said:
Although most of the blame rightly lands with the football dept. The players have played their part.

Dynasties are not possible without the players, particularly the star players taking significantly unders to keep a strong squad together as Geelong and Hawthorn were reported to have done during their successful period.

Pendlebury and Sidebottom appear to have always been reasonable in their wage negotiations, but others have clearly squeezed every last drop. That's the difference.
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Too true
 
No SPIN said:
I’m not sure you live in the real world - you don’t sack, punish, or otherwise admonish an employee for events impacting their job function that were beyond their control.
You dont sack Guy because Phillips is out of favour, Beams had mental illness or because Langdon has been injured.
That is just patently absurd.
I understand people see him as a scape goat, but their illogical rage fails to recognize keeping JDG, Moore and Grundy as a far great achievement and one many here didn’t think would be possible.
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Yep and some of this came about because Treloar's deal got back ended to bring in Wells/Mayne (done by Gubby) and Beams (which Ed had set in stone) and for which Guy had to contract him (~$400k per season on average for a top 10 finisher in the previous 2 Brownlows) and negotiate the trades.
Hardly Ned Guy's fault in those cases, albeit signing Grundy for 7 years at $1m looks excessive.
How many of these long term deals of 5+ years duration look like good ideas in hindsight? Franklin (9 couldn't play this year or last and still has a couple to go I think), Coniglio (7 got dropped as captain).......now Treloar
 

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unplugged said:
All said and done, I just hope Kelly can make steps towards becoming a Jeremy Cameron type of forward for us.

A Cox, Kelly and Mihocek forward line wouldn't be too bad.

Stephenson and one of DeGoey/Elliott down there (with the other rotating in the midfield) isn't so bad either.

It's going to be that 6th and 7th forward which let us down IMO. The JT or Cal Brown.
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Cal brown??????
 
No SPIN said:
Only a very simplistic mind needs a scape goat - why can’t you accept that apportioning blame (given the circumstances in respect of Phillips, Langdon and Beams could not be foreseen by Guy) doesn’t achieve anything.
And what’s worse is to not acknowledge clear examples of competence, with Guy ie. re- signing Moore JDG and Grundy.
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Don’t want a scape goat, want a competent list manager. So far he’s had more losses than wins.

- Great we re-signed Moore
- Grundy’s deal is too long and expensive for the player he is and the age he is when it kicks in
- JDG is yet to sign, I can only hope it’s not much more than 700k given his injury/form fluctuations since 2018
 
No SPIN said:
Only a very simplistic mind needs a scape goat - why can’t you accept that apportioning blame (given the circumstances in respect of Phillips, Langdon and Beams could not be foreseen by Guy) doesn’t achieve anything.
And what’s worse is to not acknowledge clear examples of competence, with Guy ie. re- signing Moore JDG and Grundy.
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So you agree there is salary cap issues then?
 
unplugged said:
All said and done, I just hope Kelly can make steps towards becoming a Jeremy Cameron type of forward for us.

A Cox, Kelly and Mihocek forward line wouldn't be too bad.

Stephenson and one of DeGoey/Elliott down there (with the other rotating in the midfield) isn't so bad either.

It's going to be that 6th and 7th forward which let us down IMO. The JT or Cal Brown.
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if we have learned anything it’s as simple aa this....
You can’t play “mids” as forwards.
A forward needs to be dangerous and kick goals or assist.
They have an eye to want to score.
Cal Brown or JT do not.
So recruit natural forwards.
Simple equation
 

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unplugged said:
Now that we've declared publicly that we want to keep Cox and even extend and renegotiate his contract into 2022, everyone needs to give up on the Two Metre Bench Heater idea.

We're not having Peter Wright and Mason Cox on the same field let alone paying both of them in the same TPP. Waste of time and money.

Our best result at the moment is Essendon following through with their interest in Wright and GCS disposing of him as a salary dump. Clean slate.

Capologist stuff I know but hypothetically, let's say that way we can reduce Cox from 1 x 500 to say 2 x 350. Save 150k in 2021.

And that way GCS probably have enough coin to pay at least 700k of Treloar's contract (his actual base wage, worth) and we can pay the 150k saved from Cox towards him if we need to. GCS can pony up a good pick (5) as he becomes their best or second best mid.

The TPP is either then fixed for JDG or we may even have room to replace Treloar directly or indirectly with a good player this year or next (Merrett, Josh Kelly, Rory Laird, Jack Gunston, to name a few).

I think if we got Wright back in a trade for Treloar we wouldn't be much better off. This post doesn't even take into account the rumoured 450k that Phillips is on.
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It's always been pick 5 and Brodie for mine, if Treloar is to be traded to the Suns.

A 22yo inside mid with good size and ability to find the football fits our list profile and midfield mix pretty well in a number of ways.
 
HFF said:
if we have learned anything it’s as simple aa this....
You can’t play “mids” as forwards.
A forward needs to be dangerous and kick goals or assist.
They have an eye to want to score.
Cal Brown or JT do not.
So recruit natural forwards.
Simple equation
Click to expand...

True. How good would a Toby Greene be right now?

I should give Ruscoe more credit. Could play quite a bit next year

Still, it was brought up as an area of need so I'm going to expect our list management actually attempt to do something about it...
 
No SPIN said:
I think I finally get it.

You need pictures to assist your understanding of concepts and issues.

And here I was think I was dealing with an adult.
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For you to finally get it, you would need Elon Musk to implant you with a Neuralink.

I appreciate there are always mitigating circumstances, but the buck has to stop somewhere.

If you are the list manager, and the salary cap is out of shape, you are under the microscope.

It might not be fair, it might not be fun, but it’s reality and that’s sport and that’s business.

Enough with the participation awards.
 
AndrewShawble said:
For you to finally get it, you would need Elon Musk to implant you with a Neuralink.

I appreciate there are always mitigating circumstances, but the buck has to stop somewhere.

If you are the list manager, and the salary cap is out of shape, you are under the microscope.

It might not be fair, it might not be fun, but it’s reality and that’s sport and that’s business.

Enough with the participation awards.
Click to expand...

Now we are taking about a completely different issue.
I agree managing the Cap is Guys job, but sacking him for unforeseen problems is ludicrous.
 
unplugged said:
True. How good would a Toby Greene be right now?

I should give Ruscoe more credit. Could play quite a bit next year

Still, it was brought up as an area of need so I'm going to expect our list management actually attempt to do something about it...
Click to expand...
I wasn’t impressed or unimpressed by Ruscoe’s games...I guess hard to judge our forwards this year when they all underperformed.

I thought Atu had the most promising debut
 
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