List Mgmt. Trade and F/A 2020 Cont’d

[Bramax]

Mate it is pretty clear to me and most people that someone has got to go to alleviate cap space issues. Not to mention JDG isn’t even signed up yet.
Not a chance Treloar would even be up for trade if we were on top of our TPP.
This then means that other clubs KNOW we HAVE to remove them due to their price and they’re the only players that have any currency. People complaining about Cox, Philips, WHE, JT don’t understand that nobody wants them.
The only reason Dogs are even contemplating Treloar is due to getting him cheap, not because they truly want him as he doesn’t really fit a list need when you think of it, but if the opportunity arose which it has, why not jump on it to give yourself a better team.
Stepho is in the same boat, he has great currency and teams are happy to trade for him. However due to the ridiculous $$ contracts they’re on, teams don’t want to pay a high price so some of these ridiculous trades I’m seeing on this board are just ludicrous. Two firsts for Treloar on a 900k contract? Try a late first round MAX.
People I think will be severely disappointed if a fire sale happens tomorrow night which I’m fearful of. We will not be getting true value for Ads/Philips or Stepho, that’s for certain.

I’m not so sure about Treloar. If his partner was not moving away to QLD, would he even be in the discussion right now? If it is about the $$ he’s on, maybe it’s more about him being on top dollar and the hiw the Pies are concerned we won’t get the best out of him under those personal circumstances. The truth is, none of us know anything for sure and we are all guessing.

 

[Silky23]

We shouldn’t be trading our future first as daicos is meant to be a top 5 pick and our future pick will probably end up being a top 5 pick

 

[TradeDraft]

Could North try and Add a Player in a Possible Stephenson Trade?

 

[Silky23]

I’m not so sure about Treloar. If his partner was not moving away to QLD, would he even be in the discussion right now? If it is about the $$ he’s on, maybe it’s more about him being on top dollar and the hiw the Pies are concerned we won’t get the best out of him under those personal circumstances. The truth is, none of us know anything for sure and we are all guessing.

I think he would be yes. We spoke with GC last year as well.
I think the issue is Collingwood didnt predict the sudden rise of so many of our youngsters and future planning has those players in pretty good $$ brackets, so it’s either we keep a guy with hamstring and massive durability issues (which arose again this year) on arguably our second biggest contract (plus the mental health concerns have obviously compounded this fact) vs holding onto blokes like Daicos / IQ / JDG/ Moore when their contracts come up. It’s just been a hot mess really.

 

[Pedro]

If we traded Treloar straight for pick 14 and then bundled 14, Stephenson and our future 1st, could we get pick 2? Would we need to throw in pick 16 as well?
I would do this trade:

NM: Stephenson, Pick 16, Pick 14, Pies 2021 1st
Coll: Pick 2, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Pick 28

We get a shot at McDonald or a gun in the draft, lose our best small forward, and get in a mid who will be a superstar I reckon.

So Stephenson, Treloar and 2 first round picks for 2,28 & LDU. Thats a no from me. Way too much to give up. I think people need to forget the notion of pick 2, Logan McDonald etc. It aint happening.

 

[Silky23]

So Stephenson, Treloar and 2 first round picks for 2,28 & LDU. Thats a no from me. Way too much to give up. I think people need to forget the notion of pick 2, Logan McDonald etc. It aint happening.

We have no bargaining power whatsoever. We simply at this point have to lose one of the big contracts we’re hamstrung with so an offer like this is really a huge win for us if it was accommodated. NM are in the position of power frankly.
People need to forget the talent that Stepho has and what his TRUE value may look like, then add in he may possibly be on 500-600k a year and has attitude issues, and it’s a contract we simply cannot pay if we wanna sign others.

 

[Everybody Panic]

I’m not so sure about Treloar. If his partner was not moving away to QLD, would he even be in the discussion right now? If it is about the $$ he’s on, maybe it’s more about him being on top dollar and the hiw the Pies are concerned we won’t get the best out of him under those personal circumstances. The truth is, none of us know anything for sure and we are all guessing.

There was a lot of talk that we tried to trade Treloar Last year. I get the feeling that we might not go over the cap, but with no room to move, someone like Treloar would stop our ability to get anyone of note in for the next 4 years or so. If he had of become the player we hoped, then it wouldn't even be mentioned. But he has turned into an average b to a grader midfielder rather than a superstar.

 

[No SPIN]

Been very reluctant to buy into the hyperbole - I accept the Treloar trade and why it needs to be done.

But if (big if) Stephenson is traded for a 2nd round selection to North Melbourne, I'll be putting my Membership on-hold.

If that happens with Stevo there’s clearly more to it ( not cap space) because you don’t take unders for such talent.
If however we reject the 2nd rounder, then I’m tipping the whole exercise was designed as a kick up the butt, and to keep Stevo up at night, worrying about his future in the hope he extracts the digit in 2021.
I actually hope the later is the case and Stevo stays, because I think NM will not offer a 1st rounder.

 

[Kappa]

So Stephenson, Treloar and 2 first round picks for 2,28 & LDU. Thats a no from me. Way too much to give up. I think people need to forget the notion of pick 2, Logan McDonald etc. It aint happening.

Yeah, North are in for a full rebuild and they know they can use pick 2 to get a 15 year A grade KPF... It'll take a HUGE offer to prise that from them.

 

[sr36]

[/QUOTE]
My money is on Dogs trading current first and Dunkley for

There was a lot of talk that we tried to trade Treloar Last year. I get the feeling that we might not go over the cap, but with no room to move, someone like Treloar would stop our ability to get anyone of note in for the next 4 years or so. If he had of become the player we hoped, then it wouldn't even be mentioned. But he has turned into an average b to a grader midfielder rather than a superstar.

We gave him the extension half way through 2019. He's played to expectations since.

 

[magpies42]

Mate it is pretty clear to me and most people that someone has got to go to alleviate cap space issues. Not to mention JDG isn’t even signed up yet.
Not a chance Treloar would even be up for trade if we were on top of our TPP.
This then means that other clubs KNOW we HAVE to remove them due to their price and they’re the only players that have any currency. People complaining about Cox, Philips, WHE, JT don’t understand that nobody wants them.
The only reason Dogs are even contemplating Treloar is due to getting him cheap and Dunks possibly leaving, not because they truly want him as he doesn’t really fit a list need when you think of it, but if the opportunity arose which it has, why not jump on it to give yourself a better team.
Stepho is in the same boat, he has great currency and teams are happy to trade for him. However due to the ridiculous $$ contracts they’re on, teams don’t want to pay a high price so some of these ridiculous trades I’m seeing on this board are just ludicrous. Two firsts for Treloar on a 900k contract? Try a late first round MAX.
People I think will be severely disappointed if a fire sale happens tomorrow night which I’m fearful of. We will not be getting true value for Ads/Philips or Stepho, that’s for certain.
And if we do keep them, we’ll have to severely reshape contracts and back end lots of players which will put us in harm further down the track again and who will agree to doing it after this whole Treloar fiasco? Nobody. It’s a huge huge mess.

The issue I have with the whole circus surrounding trade period is that if you add all the Collingwood player wages reported by the media in recent times our TPP would rival some of the top end EPL teams. It just can’t be right.

Furthermore, I understand moving players to make way for a big fish...but so far we have not been linked to one. Furthermore surely the retirement of Beams and potentially Langdon leaves enough space for a big player. If you want a forward you trade Cox and you could accomodate any forward in the league with those 3 outs.

I think more realistically, the three players most heavily linked with a move Treloar, Stevo and Phillips are not wanted because they aren’t bang for buck. Treloar (our biggest issue this year was transition and delivery into the 50) as we know can burn the ball, Stevo is soft and Phillips is overrated (weak, slow and average disposal) in my opinion and has been surpassed in his preferred position.

Either way I believe the club is managing things in a fair and transparent (to the player) manner, and if deals aren’t made the players will play for the pies in 2021 and everything will be fine between player and club. It’s all part of normal business after all.

I do agree though that list management was done poorly, which is why Hine was removed from that role...don’t forget media is fake news most of the time.

 

[johncitizen]

You’re making an assumption that might not be sound - we might not have the option to keep them. One or both may have to go to free up sufficient cap room to re-sign DeGoey.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The cap room is rubbish as far as I'm concerned.. journo crap

 

[domus]

Stephenson may have attitude issues I’m not sure, but one player doesn’t define the culture of an organisation. If he does have attitude issues and they can’t be resolved then I think a strong culture removes the issue.

And loyal players who love the club and desperately want to stay also get removed by "strong clubs". One could argue a strong club would quite easily deal with a young kid who has moved away from the club's expectations by surrounding him with wise inspiring mentors and experienced, empathetic coaches.
This has been done on countless occasions in the AFL.
It appears to be too tough a task for our strong club.

 

[Silky23]

The issue I have with the whole circus surrounding trade period is that if you add all the Collingwood player wages reported by the media in recent times our TPP would rival some of the top end EPL teams. It just can’t be right.

Furthermore, I understand moving players to make way for a big fish...but so far we have not been linked to one. Furthermore surely the retirement of Beams and potentially Langdon leaves enough space for a big player. If you want a forward you trade Cox and you could accomodate any forward in the league with those 3 outs.

I think more realistically, the three players most heavily linked with a move Treloar, Stevo and Phillips are not wanted because they aren’t bang for buck. Treloar (our biggest issue this year was transition and delivery into the 50) as we know can burn the ball, Stevo is soft and Phillips is overrated (weak, slow and average disposal) in my opinion and has been surpassed in his preferred position.

Either way I believe the club is managing things in a fair and transparent (to the player) manner, and if deals aren’t made the players will play for the pies in 2021 and everything will be fine between player and club. It’s all part of normal business after all.

I do agree though that list management was done poorly, which is why Hine was removed from that role...don’t forget media is fake news most of the time.

The issue is that Beams and Langdon whilst retiring will still be eating cap space until their contracts run out (unless the AFL will help us in the Beams scenario to allow it outside the cap which I highly doubt).
So it doesn’t help us in the immediate future at all. You say Cox could be traded but once again, he hit the trigger for the 550k 1-year extension, he was floated on the open market and nobody wanted him.
We can’t just ditch bad contracts for bad players and assume other teams will pick them up. What’s their incentive in doing so? That’s why we’re supposedly needing to pay some of these bigger contracts, short term hit for long term improvements.
I agree on Treloar, there is a number of issues there. Philips the same. However I don’t think Stepho is a talent issue.
I think his issue is between the ears, attitude, lack of effort and drive to succeed, apparently he doesn’t do any weight training whatsoever, doesn’t believe in it. How is he meant to improve and get bigger and stronger if he isn’t willing to do the things required of him? Effort on the field this year was deplorable. Now you could say our ball movement hurt him but it’s when he doesn't have the ball, that’s my greatest concern. Dusty and Fyfe get away with it because their generational talents and hurt you so much the other way. We simply cannot carry a guy like Stepho if he doesn’t want to buy in.

 

[TradeDraft]

The cap room is rubbish as far as I'm concerned.. journo crap

Then why we want to Trade Both Treloar and Stephenson?

 

[soreplums]

Wasn’t the reason for trying to trade Treloar to GC last year due to his wife wanting to play netball with QLD this year but because she fell pregnant she didn’t go?

If we can stay under the cap for 2021 without moving anyone on then we should keep it together.

We have a host of players out of contract next year.
Mayne
Greenwood
Phillips
Lynch
Langdon
Cox
Sier
Elliott
Thomas

Players OOC to re-sign at the end of 2021:
Elliott
Pendles
Sidey
Howe
Rantall
Noble
Wilson
Bianco
Ruscoe

 

[stevebbb]

Can we trade Bucks to Norf instead of Stevo?

 

[wicksy]

Thread delivers.

After tomoz popcorn intake I may be more like...

Another? It's only wafer thin...

 

[anshell]

Can we trade Bucks to Norf instead of Stevo?

And Sanderson and Harvey while we’re at it.

 

[Horaceg]

And Sanderson and Harvey while we’re at it.

These guys should be traded to Richmond, 3 from 4 is enough

 

[swoop42]

Essendon might split pick 8 for two late firsts.

Essendon give Pick 7 and a late first for Dunkley

Dogs give Late first and pick 14 for Treloar.

Pies end up with three teen picks (Two from Treloar trade and our own current pick).

Or dogs give pick 7 and pick 14 for Treloar and our future first.

Pies end up with pick 7, 14 (current pick 16).

Yes I've seen this scenario mentioned in the media and it would be best for us if we can get Treloar directly involved in the trade for Dunkley but I was looking at it from the viewpoint that the best case scenario doesn't eventuate.

 

[magpies42]

The issue is that Beams and Langdon whilst retiring will still be eating cap space until their contracts run out (unless the AFL will help us in the Beams scenario to allow it outside the cap which I highly doubt).
So it doesn’t help us in the immediate future at all. You say Cox could be traded but once again, he hit the trigger for the 550k 1-year extension, he was floated on the open market and nobody wanted him.
We can’t just ditch bad contracts for bad players and assume other teams will pick them up. What’s their incentive in doing so? That’s why we’re supposedly needing to pay some of these bigger contracts, short term hit for long term improvements.
I agree on Treloar, there is a number of issues there. Philips the same. However I don’t think Stepho is a talent issue.
I think his issue is between the ears, attitude, lack of effort and drive to succeed, apparently he doesn’t do any weight training whatsoever, doesn’t believe in it. How is he meant to improve and get bigger and stronger if he isn’t willing to do the things required of him? Effort on the field this year was deplorable. Now you could say our ball movement hurt him but it’s when he doesn't have the ball, that’s my greatest concern. Dusty and Fyfe get away with it because their generational talents and hurt you so much the other way. We simply cannot carry a guy like Stepho if he doesn’t want to buy in.

Agree the AFL won’t come to the table to settle the Beams issue, it would set a dangerous precedent for them. Both sides have said they would come to an arrangement, so you would expect there to be a deal made whereby we either pay him nothing (which would be fair) or a fraction of his wage. Langdon is a different situation he can take an AFL payout because of a career ending injury...this would not be counted in out cap.

Disagree on Cox I think we can wipe the early season form and put it down to his eye issues. He came good towards the end of the season and again in a big game. Sydney were reportedly interested, it’s really a tradeoff in this scenario. We either aim to dump salary and get a poor pick in return or pay part of the wage and get a better pick. Either way I believe we could move him.

 

[magpies42]

And loyal players who love the club and desperately want to stay also get removed by "strong clubs". One could argue a strong club would quite easily deal with a young kid who has moved away from the club's expectations by surrounding him with wise inspiring mentors and experienced, empathetic coaches.
This has been done on countless occasions in the AFL.
It appears to be too tough a task for our strong club.

True, but it’s hard to say from the outside looking in. I back the club to make the right decision here.

 

[Matt_352]

These guys should be traded to Richmond, 3 from 4 is enough

Throw in Ed and Guy too

 

[Matt_352]

True, but it’s hard to say from the outside looking in. I back the club to make the right decision here.

Couldn't imagine why since they consistently make terrible decisions