List Mgmt. Trade and F/A 2020 Cont’d

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tranquilli lace said:
Putting aside the PR disaster and the complete train wreck this has been.

Is there a world where we’ve received assurances from Adelaide they won’t take McDonald and we’ve asked the Kangaroos what it would take to get pick 2 and their answer was Stephenson, Atu, two first rounders?

Or am I’m trying to squeeze milk out of a bone dry tit?
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If that was the case we'd have probably traded Stephenson, Atu and two first rounders for Pick 2.
 
unplugged said:
My opinion is that last year it (the plan) didn't look so bad. We just lost a preliminary final which we should've won and we would've been every chance in the GF against Richmond. The list after last year was worth holding onto for as long as we could.
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We were outplayed by GWS, scoreboard flattered by our late surge. Had we managed a win, we would have been smashed by Richmond in the GF.
 
jmac70 said:
We were outplayed by GWS, scoreboard flattered by our late surge. Had we managed a win, we would have been smashed by Richmond in the GF.
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It wasn't that bad. We were neck-and-neck for the entire first half despite looking flat after the week off. They did us like a dinner in the third quarter. We served the same back in the last, but fell short. The game itself wasn't a comprehensive "outplaying" by any means. We should've won.

That said, perhaps we'd have been better off if Coniglio, Greene, etc. played and we had lost by 5 goals. We may have expedited this plan.
 

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HeadInTheSand said:
Don't pay two first rounders for a midfielder simply because he loves the coach.
Don't pay two first rounders for someone with known mental health and hip issues.
Don't give up on a 21 year old that you used pick 6 for - especially when you have another top ten pick that regularly returns to pre-season training overweight, gets caught drunk driving, using a mobile phone while driving, is regularly injured and assaults women.
Don't use a top ten pick on someone who requires foot surgery even before he plays a game.
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Ok - so let’s look at this in detail.

Re AT - don’t recruit a guy who loves the Coach - not a sensible conclusion given Taylor Adams fits the same profile and has been an outstanding success. Players are motivated to join a club to play for Coaches they admire frequently. eg Clarko.

Shaz - Selwood one of the greatest players of modern times, would have been overlooked on your criteria, because he had an ACL injury before being drafted.
Ultimately it’s was knee issues that destroyed Shaz not feet, so again your criteria fail. And Stevo would never have picked because of his heart condition.
And not sure how STEVO’s subsequent issues where possible to predict before drafting him.

Beams - he had a medical, so his hip was fine. Not sure the List Manager is responsible for poor medical advice on this or mental health issues.

So bottom line - there are no ironclad lessons here - you make decisions on the best available information and that’s all you can do.

Revisionism based on hindsight to apportion blame, is an exercise in futility.
 
unplugged said:
It was that bad. We were neck-and-neck for the entire first half despite looking flat after the week off. They did us like a dinner in the third quarter. We served the same back in the last, but fell short. The game itself wasn't a comprehensive "outplaying" by any means. We should've won.

That said, perhaps we'd have been better off if Coniglio, Greene, etc. played and we had lost by 5 goals. We may have expedited this plan.
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If it makes you feel better to rationalise this trade period then go for it.
 
No SPIN said:
Ok - so let’s look at this in detail.

Re AT - don’t recruit a guy who loves the Coach - not a sensible conclusion given Taylor Adams fits the same profile and has been an outstanding success. Players are motivated to join a club to play for Coaches they admire frequently. eg Clarko.

Shaz - Selwood one of the greatest players of modern times, would have been overlooked on your criteria, because he had an ACL injury before being drafted.
Ultimately it’s was knee issues that destroyed Shaz not feet, so again your criteria fail. And Stevo would never have picked because of his heart condition.
And not sure how STEVO’s subsequent issues where possible to predict before drafting him.

Beams - he had a medical, so his hip was fine. Not sure the List Manager is responsible for poor medical advice on this or mental health issues.

So bottom line - there are no ironclad lessons here - you make decisions on the best available information and that’s all you can do.

Revisionism based on hindsight to apportion blame, is an exercise in futility.
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The list manager is responsible for contracts. We are in this mess because of poor list management. That is beyond question.
 
Daniel J said:
And to think of the abuse i recieved for saying Treloar is good as gone because Grundy wanted him out. Hmmmm.
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I remember you saying it but your post has been deleted since.

Don't be shy, tell us what you've heard.
 
FAIRANDBALANCED said:
Listening to that Anderson bloke on 3aw just makes me angrier. All relaxed and composed and letting us know that we are over reacting and this is part of a plan.

So how far back does this plan go? To signing Treloar to 5 years? Grundy to 7?

Maybe we have all got it wrong and they do have a grand plan...that they have compiled in the last 2 months.

Nobody is completely pissed about letting these players go if we were honest throughout, but even inside they are still trying to convince themselves that Treloar, Phillips and Stephenson is effectively worth pick 14 and us still paying Treloars 300k.

Has anyone inside the club stopped and thought, sh*t guys this plan is actually pretty terrible.
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I don’t think you’ve ever said anything positive about the Pies on this forum

Change you name to UnBalanced


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Bungeye said:
Give a thought for Mason Cox in all of this.
He comes to a strange land and has to learn all these weird nicknames and weird accents.
To top it off he is watching this whole Treloar debacle from afar thinking how much a backwater Australia is.
If I was Mason I would run. I think it would benefit both parties.
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I'm sure nothing like this would ever occur in the American sporting world.🙄
 
unplugged said:
It wasn't that bad. We were neck-and-neck for the entire first half despite looking flat after the week off. They did us like a dinner in the third quarter. We served the same back in the last, but fell short. The game itself wasn't a comprehensive "outplaying" by any means. We should've won.

That said, perhaps we'd have been better off if Coniglio, Greene, etc. played and we had lost by 5 goals. We may have expedited this plan.
Click to expand...
Like GWS this year, our biggest issue wasn't the list, it was the go slow game plan. GWS still had the most talented list, but a crap game system means it counts for little. If they thought our list was good enough previously, there's nothing to suggest it wasnt still good enough, because our style of play just didn't give us a chance.
 
unplugged said:
Maybe I've bought into the clumsy spin but I'm starting to come around on the whole scenario, albeit just from reading between the lines a little bit...

My opinion is that last year it (the plan) didn't look so bad. We just lost a preliminary final which we should've won and we would've been every chance in the GF against Richmond. The list after last year was worth holding onto for as long as we could.

Hindsight is a horrible, horrible thing at times...

Fast forward 12 months and upon review of the season we've had at least 3 very bad losses (WCE, Melbourne, Geelong) and a couple of "close but not close enough" losses against the likes of Port and Brisbane.

The old saying goes "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

Our midfield in those 3-5 games was comprehensively beaten. We also weren't able to rest players like Adams this year because Treloar again got injured (not to mention Sidebottom) which is becoming a trend. To put it simply, we've peaked, and we don't want to sit on our hands and plateau for the next 5 years.

Adam Treloar is a good player but without kicking 20+ goals a year, playing 20 games a year and without running two ways all day, he's not worth the cash. Not only this but you can hear in the media today just how stubborn he is when being told something he doesn't agree with. Great guy, absolutely. Bleeds for his club.

We've heard countless times that Stephenson is a piss poor trainer, doesn't do the hard yards, etc. We dismiss it because we know what he's capable of, because we have seen it.

We keep hearing this "rumour" that he had glandular fever but I actually haven't heard anything to convince me that this is even true. Someone may link me to something which says otherwise. Quite simply doesn't look fit enough. Maybe he had the drive to make the AFL but doesn't have the drive to sustain it. Time will tell.

Phillips is a downhill skiier and quickly became an overpaid (again, hindsight is a b*tch) player on the verge of being outside our best 22. Pure salary dump.

I think Mick McGuanne and a few others have said it wasn't "who" we got rid of that was the problem, it was "how."

It's hard to shed yourself of 3 contracted players, particularly ones on decent coin. You either trade them for nothing and shed their contract, trade them for a good pick and pay some of their contract, or meet in the middle. It's even harder to accept that we couldn't get any compensation for 2 or 3 best-22 players.

There's a good chance we were dropping 105% down to 95%, which generates the debate about how we got to 105% without any real achievement. At the same time we may have been shedding enough weight early to pay Beams/Langdon in 2021 and potentially bring in not just one but maybe two Free Agents next year.

PS I don't agree with Grundy's deal but I think there was a genuine fear that he was going to leave. Hopefully this season, although not as bad as it's made out to be, was just an outlier.
Click to expand...
Like GWS this year, our biggest issue wasn't the list, it was the go slow game plan. GWS still had the most talented list, but a crap game system means it counts for little. If they thought our list was good enough previously, there's nothing to suggest it wasnt still good enough, because our style of play just didn't give us a chance.
 
No SPIN said:
Ok - so let’s look at this in detail.

Re AT - don’t recruit a guy who loves the Coach - not a sensible conclusion given Taylor Adams fits the same profile and has been an outstanding success. Players are motivated to join a club to play for Coaches they admire frequently. eg Clarko.

Shaz - Selwood one of the greatest players of modern times, would have been overlooked on your criteria, because he had an ACL injury before being drafted.
Ultimately it’s was knee issues that destroyed Shaz not feet, so again your criteria fail. And Stevo would never have picked because of his heart condition.
And not sure how STEVO’s subsequent issues where possible to predict before drafting him.

Beams - he had a medical, so his hip was fine. Not sure the List Manager is responsible for poor medical advice on this or mental health issues.

So bottom line - there are no ironclad lessons here - you make decisions on the best available information and that’s all you can do.

Revisionism based on hindsight to apportion blame, is an exercise in futility.
Click to expand...
Beams issues were well known within the industry. And I’ve heard that from the horses mouth. That wasn’t hindsight. We bet on ourselves and lost.
 
Aishole said:
I think as a fan of the NBA, i’ve grown to take this kind of stuff pretty lightly.

Get used to it folks. Contracts aren’t going to get any more meaningful, clubs aren’t going to become less ruthless, and salary dumps are a thing.

You think not calling a guy immediately to tell them they’re in trade talks is bad.

A lot of guys in the NBA don’t even find out from their manager - they find out from Twitter or Instagram, and have to move to a new City without giving their consent. One player was traded literally while he was sitting on the bench playing for the team that traded him.

For better or for worse, this is 2020, and thats one the benchmark leagues of world sport.
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Or the nfl, half way through a training session, then get told to leave your team now is on the other side of the country.
 
Obese Arachnid said:
Wasn't he jonbe54 ?
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100%
He went nuts and alienated so many people in the board he had to take a break and come back under a different identity for people to actually respond to him again. I had my suspicions it was him from early on, but it wasn’t until he started breaking out the ROFLMAO’s and telling people about how hard his life had been that I knew 100% it was him.
 
mike123 said:
That kind of practice just reflects US society though, I’d hate for the AFL to become anything like that atrocities that are American sports.

In the end our players still had the choice to enforce their contract so your contracts are meaningless line doesn’t fit.
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I hope so too, but it’s heading that way unfortunately
 
Good_Old said:
What's the misso reckon' about the pies losing baby hair?

She happy her team got Treloar, and for peanuts?
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Happy enough about Treloar but thinks baby hair is a tool for a while now.
 
Apex36 said:
100%
He went nuts and alienated so many people in the board he had to take a break and come back under a different identity for people to actually respond to him again. I had my suspicions it was him from early on, but it wasn’t until he started breaking out the ROFLMAO’s and telling people about how hard his life had been that I knew 100% it was him.
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He ****ed up & used AGENDA again too! lol
 
tranquilli lace said:
Was working on the assumption there’s more to play out in terms of draft pick swapping scenarios closer to/on draft night. Clearly they think they can get one of the KPP high in the draft. Ned & others have hinted pretty strongly at it.
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I guess it's probably worthwhile waiting to see which player Adelaide take with pick 1 first. Then hopefully North make a bid with pick 2 on JUH (they've been known to bid on players such as Brown I think it was). Then you're trying to trade up for 3 which won't look as catastrophic.
 
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