List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Anzacday]

Do you think they will notice we’re trading Cox twice?

Something about two being better than one…

 

[soreplums]

Something about two being better than one…

Or perhaps he is just a spare….

 

[Unknown Identity]

Tyler Keitel killing it in the WAFL, kicked 43 in his last 10 games including 2 bags of 7 and an 8.
Still only 25 years old, 196cm which is slightly undersized but would have been happy picking up Callow in the MSD who is a similar build.

Would like to see what he can do in an AFL system.

 

[gouki88]

Tyler Keitel killing it in the WAFL, kicked 43 in his last 10 games including 2 bags of 7 and an 8.
Still only 25 years old, 196cm which is slightly undersized but would have been happy picking up Callow in the MSD.

Would like to see what he can do in an AFL system.

Feel like he could kick 100 in the WAFL and still not get a look in. Just one of those guys

 

[loki04]

I mean Fyfe was not a top 5, let alone top 10 pick. That was my point. What about Lachie Neale, what about Tom Lynch, Touk, Miller, Maynard, Crisp, Grundy? Dane Swan? Where did our premiership captain go again? There are as many stars with lower picks than top 10s. It's funny how Boone mentions Bachhar Houlis draft range given how good he was in their 17 flag.

Most of your list is not on Martin, Pendles, Hodge, Judd etc level, they also come much more infrequently at those later picks its a crap shoot and luck.

You are largely talking about Sidey level a graders and making them out to be Dustin Martins.
Yes the odd late picked player will become a diamond in the rough but it is not a odds in your favour type thing like top 5 picks are generally.

Comparing Maxwell to elite star champions you gotta be forking kidding me right?

Show me a club that can constantly pluck Dane Swans and Sam Mitchell's with picks in the late draft....those situations are luck.

 

[Jasper84]

Show me a club that can constantly pluck Dane Swans and Sam Mitchell's with picks in the late draft....those situations are luck.

Only if you can show us a successful club that has had heaps of top 5 picks and doesn't have a tiny strawman hidden somewhere in their training facilities.

 

[loki04]

Hahaha.

There are heaps of generational talent taken outside the top5, you even had to include Fyfe (pick 20) in your list!

Will always be happy with Swan from the 01 draft at 63 without him we don't do anything.

But on the flip side here are chumps taken with top 5 picks

01 - Polak, X.Clarke
02 - Brennan, T.Walsh
03 - 1AW, Col Sylvia, F.Ray, B.McLean
04 - Tambling
05 - X.Ellis
06 - Gumbleton, L.Hansen, Leunberger
07 - C.Morton, J.Grant
08 - J.Watts, S.Hill, H.Hartlett
09 - Trengove, Morabito
10 - D.Swallow, Bennell, Polec, S.Day
11 - Patton, D.Tyson, WHE, Buntine
12 - O'Rourke, Plowman, Toumpass
13 - Boyd, Billings, K.Kolo
14 - McCartin, Pickett
15 - Scache
16 - Ainsworth, Setterfiled

Won't go further as not fair to right off a guy like Dow as a bust just yet. But drafting isn't getting better, just as many top5 busts recently.

Imagine strategically wanting to lose just so you could pick up one of those highly rated kids. It is a flawed strategy.

So before compromised drafts there was one maybe 2 busts or none given some of those you listed actually had ok careers.

Brennan hardly a bust but didn't live up to potential.
Clarke, McLean and Sylvia also not draft busts.
Ellis almost won a Norm Smith in fact should of won one, again not a bust not hitting those expectations though.
Watts and Hartlett again had solid careers they aren't busts.
Swallow, Bennell (only a bust due to his off field stuff 100% has all the talent) Day aren't busts.
Most your lists is filled with players still playing the game, they just didn't meet expectations. Which is often a benefit of top talent most times you either get a gun or at least a solid player. Later in the draft most times you get a good or solid player or a bust with the occasional gun.


You want me to list how many.players were ACTUAL busts from every other round and the list will be 1000 times greater then yours.

Yes yes we lucked out 1 draft over 21 years ago and had Dane Swan from it.

You are using the odd player from each draft that gets underrated by recruiters to try argue that using later picks is better then the more reliable method of top 5 pick.
Given that player is available at 5 or below still if your recruiters are worth their salt they would take them then like Dekka did with Pendles.

Your argument is so flawed its not funny.

 

[loki04]

Only if you can show us a successful club that doesn't have a tiny strawman hidden somewhere in their training facilities.

Bit like their argument that top 5 picks aren't worth it and better off with late picks going off a piss weak list of those he deemed busts?

Answer the question show me a club that can consistently find elite star talent from picks that late in the draft?

Reason you spit a glib 1 liner answer is because even you know its a BS premise.

You guys see the odd good player come from a rdm point in the draft and instead of looking at it as an anomaly you have convinced yourself that its so common that its better then having access to not only the elite of the draft but more choice of what player is available.

 

[jonmacTrag]

I still think the Pies pulled the right move last draft trading this years first pick for Poulter & McMahon.

We mad

Well, at least we're going into this year's trade period with very low expectations...

No way I'm classifying taking a kid the is presenting to be at least as good as his father if not better in his draft year as low expectations.

Dib is no slouch either.

We may not be very active with good picks you don't have to be.

Low expectations? No.

 

[loki04]

Only if you can show us a successful club that has had heaps of top 5 picks and doesn't have a tiny strawman hidden somewhere in their training facilities.

Every single side has had top 5 picks.

The strike rate in that bracket is typically much more consistent and better then later picks thats the point.
You guys want to name a player who 21 years ago slipped or were late bloomers to prove stars come from all ranges but fail too mention its an anomaly rather then a good chance like in the top 5.

I can't believe there are so many people who are buying into this shit.

When you have access to near on every player in the draft and fail to find a gun then your recruiters or development team has let you down.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Tyler Keitel killing it in the WAFL, kicked 43 in his last 10 games including 2 bags of 7 and an 8.
Still only 25 years old, 196cm which is slightly undersized but would have been happy picking up Callow in the MSD who is a similar build.

Would like to see what he can do in an AFL system.

Feel like he could kick 100 in the WAFL and still not get a look in. Just one of those guys

Few things.

Campaigner huge ego.
Had his tyres blown up to the max as a nipper and bought into the adulation, but he never quite got the bit where raw ability only gets you so far.

Floats in and out of games and quarters, capable of a four goal quarter or ten minute burst, then rests on his laurels and does nothing else for the rest of the game.

His effort and concentration is inconsistent which is very frustrating and comes across as lazy.

Loves to remonstrate with the umps and big on the theatrics, which in itself isn’t that bad, but it can overwhelm him and when that happens it appears to knock him off his game - again a concentration thing.

Dominates against weak defences , struggle some what when he has a quality lock down defender on him.

Rarely fires in big games.

Flat track bully, who too often prances around like a show pony.

Shame because:
He really is a huge talent, has all the tools, all the ability but just not the mental application .

If someone could get his head right , I have no doubt he could be a good AFL player.

My critique may seem harsh, but it’s said as a former under 18 / Colts coach who has seen so many kids with all the right attitudes not make it, or miss being drafted due to lack of ability, so to see such a talented kid lack application both annoys and frustrates me.
He has been given developmental list places at State and National level and not fully utilised or grasped the opportunities.

Apparently, these are some of the reasons why he doesn’t get drafted.

 

[loki04]

My view is that if you're looking at draftees to become the core of a team, you're generally looking at a minimum of a 6 year wait. You might get one or two of them to be ready to really be core players earlier, but the bulk of them will take longer. In 6 years time, the advantage of an extra 2 years in the system will be diminished and you really want to just have the more talented player on your list - hopefully that will be Poulter, but I'm not hugely confident that he'll be as good as you'd expect from a top 10 pick in 2022.

Yep 6 years plus is typical. But I bet some nupty will throw in an outlier side to prove that's BS lol

Bit like I dont know using Dane Swan to say that top 5 picks don't provide access to guns and any old pick will do....

 

[sr36]

On the contrary, I’m buoyant that almost whatever we do it will surely be an improvement on last year!

Don't be too confident. We could trade our 2022 first for Daicos points so we can get 5 in the top 51.

 

[Apex36]

Tyler Keitel killing it in the WAFL, kicked 43 in his last 10 games including 2 bags of 7 and an 8.
Still only 25 years old, 196cm which is slightly undersized but would have been happy picking up Callow in the MSD who is a similar build.

Would like to see what he can do in an AFL system.

In what world is 196cm undersized…?

 

[loki04]

Apparently, these are some of the reasons why he doesn’t get drafted.

So rookie him and see if you can work out the kinks in attitude

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Don't be too confident. We could trade our 2022 first for Daicos points so we can get 5 in the top 51.

I did say “almost”!

 

[loki04]

Don't be too confident. We could trade our 2022 first for Daicos points so we can get 5 in the top 51.

I think we should just trade out of the first round every year for 2 picks in the 20s and 30s and just wait and see how the list pans out hopefully in 20 years we can pluck a Swan and a Beams though or it might get ugly.

 

[sr36]

Yep 6 years plus is typical. But I bet some nupty will throw in an outlier side to prove that's BS lol

Bit like I dont know using Dane Swan to say that top 5 picks don't provide access to guns and any old pick will do....

I think 6 years is optimistic, when you consider that our midfield will need to be totally rebuilt. Doggies flunked a flag with a young group of mids. But generally winning midfield are 24+.

 

[loki04]

I think 6 years is optimistic, when you consider that our midfield will need to be totally rebuilt. Doggies flunked a flag with a young group of mids. But generally winning midfield are 24+.

Most rebuilds take 7 seasons to mature imo.

 

[SquirrelGrrripp]

I once sold a Nirvana ltd edition box set for $500, ($200 more than I paid for it.)...I couldn't predict the guy would blow his head off two weeks later, and the price went to $1500! Ces la vie.

Funny coincidence. I knew this guy… Ned who purchased a Nirvana Ltd edition box set for $500 - 2 weeks later Kurt Cobain commits suicide. Steal of the century he called it..

Unfortunately Ned had gone all in on shares in a blockbuster franchise. Tried to offload his Ltd edition box set to recoup some coin, but old Gerry at cash converters knew Neds story and all he could remunerate himself with was $50 and a hand shandy… True story!


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[magpies42]

Any good will that we built up over last decade by being bent over at trade period is now gone. With Wright on board we take on the Hawks bad karma.

what a disaster

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Any good will that we built up over last decade by being bent over at trade period is now gone. With Wright on board we take on the Hawks bad karma.

what a disaster

That good will is a fairy tale anyway.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Any good will that we built up over last decade by being bent over at trade period is now gone. With Wright on board we take on the Hawks bad karma.

what a disaster

Not a disaster at all - players have attack dogs on retainers - they call them player agents.

If the players want to hold clubs to ransom then they need to understand that their bluff will be called.

The trade balance is far too one sided - especially out our club - lay out the terms of each new contract clearly.

Take it or walk.

End of negotiation.

 

[magpies42]

That good will is a fairy tale anyway.

Potentially, but I reckon there is something in it. Every negotiation I’ve been part of you take past relationships into consideration. Being beyond fair suggests you should expect fairness in return. Dodorro for example can’t expect people to be fair when he is a flog.

For e.g if I was negotiating with GC I’d bring up the Witts deal, like I would expect Brisbane did when raping us with trading Beams back. I expect the Queens birthday gate had something to do with Ball ending up at the pies and not the Dees…it can be the smallest margin but enough to get a deal done in your favour. If you distrust or hate the person you’re dealing with then you’re more likely to agitate than facilitate. That’s human nature, look at the Myers boardroom disaster.

 

[sr36]

That good will is a fairy tale anyway.

Years ago I travelled through India. A guy I met got ripped off buying dope when he first arrived in Bombay. 2 months later he returned to Bombay, he'd learnt the going rate, but the dealers would only sell to him for the ripped off price that he initially paid, because they remembered what he was willing to pay. That's the good will that comes from doing crap deals.