Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[fronkalicious]

Id be absolutely shocked if st kilda went for Patton. As I said earlier, they picked up Tom lee last year, and unless they get their midfield together they can have Cameron, buddy, roughie etc down there and it won't matter.

 

[Beasley]

Just watching TAC Cup Future Stars and they have predicted Matt Sharenberg will be our selection at No 4 in the draft.

 

[BRG93]

Would be happy to look at getting Sam Grimley having a field day so far in VFL GF

 

[black pup]

I really cannot understand why bulldogs, would not offer Grimley from Box Hill Hawks a contract, best young forward in VFL by mile, and more up side than Crameri, and certainly meets our need as excellent marking forward. ?????.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Would be happy to look at getting Sam Grimley having a field day so far in VFL GF

No way Hawthorn would let him go with Hale nearing the end. They're planning on Grimley and Bailey being a big part of their future as alternating rucks. I also believe he's still contracted.

 

[scooter600x]

I don't get the infatuation with wanting a bloke to take big contested marks in the goalsquare. Uncontested marks on the lead contribute about 20 times more goals every year. Jason Dunstall was 186cm and he kicked about 1000 goals that way.

 

[Some Idiot]

I don't get the infatuation with wanting a bloke to take big contested marks in the goalsquare. Uncontested marks on the lead contribute about 20 times more goals every year. Jason Dunstall was 186cm and he kicked about 1000 goals that way.

Lockett was only like 191cm too, these days they'd both probably be told to play midfield, even in the time since they played, the height profile of players has changed dramatically, don't think you can compare them to now.

 

[King Harold]

I agree that's about his value. I just cant see it getting the deal done. I suspect that he his on that sort of coin right now, so if he was looking to leave he'd want considerably more than 250K. As for getting more opportunities surely they are going to come at the Swans and with his perceived improvement in form they'd be looking to re-sign him for next year and beyond anyway. I'll be the first to admit that I don't spend lots of time watching the Swans but I'd think that with Tippett playing FF, Pike being your typical Ruckman/forward and with Goodes, LRT nearing the end and Reid being a week to week injury ridden proposition at best, he'll get plenty of chances next year.

White is just a lessor version of Crameri for mine and I think I've made my views on his recruitment pretty clear.

I understand as well as anybody a Bulldogs supporters age old longing for a genuine KPF, but enough of these pseudo types.

Don't really care if we get White , but if we do you will pay a lot more than that, both in landing him and his wage,
Plenty of clubs will pay more than you suggest.

 

[BRWB]

BR, I am not suggesting you don't need tall marking options in your forward structure, you do. But with a tall CHF, and a resting ruck, you already do have the 'bomb in hope' options. But that does not mean that your main goal kickers need to be one of the gorillas.

Again just because some successful teams have had a particular structure that that is the only way to set up a team/game.

To me the way the game is evolving, I think the era of glacial gorillas will rapidly go the way of the dodo.

I guess we differ, my understanding is that 'glacial gorillas' like Travis Cloke and Jonathon Brown (at peak) are essential. They have almost midfielder motors and can take overhead contested marks. Don't know how Patton's motor runs it must be said though.

And yes if Will Minson could take a contested grab like Ottens or even Hale, and Jones was more than a second or third forward who often blows up and regularly runs under the ball, super we could get away without getting a beast like Patton as the gap wouldn't be there. But there is a gap and its big, its tall, its contested marking, it can run and it can goal. Its a bloody big gap in my book.

And by the way Campbell is nowhere near being the answer in IMHO.

 

[Toastman]

Where does this idea that ruckmen are neither as important, nor as influential as players playing other roles ?
To read some of these posts you would think ruckmen are all bar irrelevant, and any hack will do in your team.

Sorry but I could not disagree more. The ruckmen are simply the tallest of your midfielders.
While forwards, particularly deep forwards might produce the majority of the scores, if the midfielders don't win the ball and
deliver it well to your F50, the guys down there might just as well be witches hats for all the influence they will have on any outcome.

A ruckman like big Will playing in the ruck for 90+% of the game, meaning he is in a position to have some influence on what is happening
where the ball is.
The ball spends little more than 20-30% of the time inside the F50, so the opportunity for the guys in there influence the game is a lot less.
That is not to say a really good FF will not influence a game, but he gets less chances to do so than the followers.

While I enjoy watching a good key forward in action as anyone else, as I have said repeatedly, I don't buy the argument that a good forward
needs to be a gorilla type. I believe it has a hell of a lot more to do with structure, and how the guys in there work together,and of course their
collective playing ability. But if the mids don't get the ball in there, it really doesn't matter who you have down there.

I don't think the argument for trading Minson has anything to do with how important or influential he is as a player. The argument as I see it is that he will be a good player for the next 2-3 years before age slows him to a point where he is no longer a GF ruckman.

If we don't expect to make the GF in that time then he is worth more as a trade for a player who will be peaking at the right time than as a leader and mentor to the younger players in many peoples opinion. Additionally we have other mentor players in the mid field who are worth much less than Minno on the trade table (which also reduces his value to us). We can also pick up a solid ruckman as a rookie from the VFL or Jolley in the PSD if we have no confidence in the three in our system.

In many sports they regularly move on great players with the aim of producing a uniform team peaking in the same timeframe and, while AFL teams don't have this rationalist approach, it may be what we need to win a Grand Final.

 

[yebiga]

I guess we differ, my understanding is that 'glacial gorillas' like Travis Cloke and Jonathon Brown (at peak) are essential. They have almost midfielder motors and can take overhead contested marks. Don't know how Patton's motor runs it must be said though.

And yes if Will Minson could take a contested grab like Ottens or even Hale, and Jones was more than a second or third forward who often blows up and regularly runs under the ball, super we could get away without getting a beast like Patton as the gap wouldn't be there. But there is a gap and its big, its tall, its contested marking, it can run and it can goal. Its a bloody big gap in my book.

And by the way Campbell is nowhere near being the answer in IMHO.

Campbell is being groomed to become ottens mark 11

 

[josh the gent]

I see Taylor Adams has nominated his desired clubs as Richmond or Collingwood (probably for their first round pick).

Reported to have done a tour of Visy Park, Collingwood probably in the box seat.

The reason it relates to this thread, is that I would see us as a chance to trade pick 4, to GWS for picks 9 & 11 - who would you want to take if that happened?

In order, I'd like any of:

• Sheed
• Bontempelli
• Lennon
• Dunstan

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Campbell doesn't need to be a superstar. Remember he is barely 20-22. He will improve more over the next 3-4 years.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Don't really care if we get White , but if we do you will pay a lot more than that, both in landing him and his wage,
Plenty of clubs will pay more than you suggest.

You may have missed the part where I said I reckon he'd be on 250K now, and would be looking for considerably more to change clubs.

I'd be more than happy for other clubs to pay over the odds for Mr White.

 

[fronkalicious]

I'm still very keen on jed lamb. Think he compliments our squad very nicely. Wonder if a 3rd rounder and a fringe player (Howard) or 4th round upgrade would get it done??? Good talent. Still unsigned.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I see Taylor Adams has nominated his desired clubs as Richmond or Collingwood (probably for their first round pick).

Reported to have done a tour of Visy Park, Collingwood probably in the box seat.

The reason it relates to this thread, is that I would see us as a chance to trade pick 4, to GWS for picks 9 & 11 - who would you want to take if that happened?

In order, I'd like any of:

• Sheed
• Bontempelli
• Lennon
• Dunstan

I'm in favour of just taking Scharenberg, but for the purposes of this exercise I'd say Sheed and Hartung, because together they make the perfect player.

 

[King Harold]

You may have missed the part where I said I reckon he'd be on 250K now, and would be looking for considerably more to change clubs.

I'd be more than happy for other clubs to pay over the odds for Mr White.

Sorry mate, you have my humble apology .

 

[paulveed]

Good or great players at the top of their game will improve the side they are in clearly.
If next year the best player in the premier team turns out to be a back pocket, does that mean we all need to rush out and
buy up a Gary-back-pocket-Jnr to make our side complete? Certainly not.

There is always more as they say than "one way to skin a cat".

I have no objection to us having a Patton or Boyd in our team, but I do not believe for one moment that it is a case of ...that or bust.

This is why I am not on the 'gorilla FF at any cost' band wagon.
That, and that as the game continues to speed up I believe there will be less and less a role for the 'traditional' gorillas. Key position players
increasingly will become elite running athletes, merely being tall just won't cut the mustard for much longer. That is if it still does already.

Ours is a rapidly evolving game these days, and yesterday's imperatives are tomorrows antiquities. Any good coach formulates his game plan/s
A] to suit the team he has [and bolsters what he sees as it's weaknesses when he can].
B] to counter the opposition's strengths/plans, increasingly in individual ways.

It has always been this way with our game [ think Barrasi's "handball at all costs" directive; Carlton's introduction years ago of the 'mosquito fleet' concept etc.].

If you have a classic gun FF, great. If not you find an alternative way to get the cat naked, rather than running around in ever decreasing circles thinking about nothing other than finding a gorilla at any cost.

A few seasons back a lot of posters on here thought big Will was a hack as a ruckman, now lo and behold he is AA.
Neither he nor Campbell are presently top line when playing [ resting] at FF or FP. Both are serviceable at least however.
I see no reason Campbell should not come on as Will has both in the ruck, and F50. Nor do I believe if Will has improved that much in ruck skills,
that he cannot do the same with his forward skills, if as Campbell gradually gets a higher % of ruck time.

Like I say, yes a top shelf FF would be nice, but it sure as hell is not the only chance of us getting better, not the "only" route to a premiership window.

 

[footyfan000001]

I like Mitch Hallahan a lot. Has BMac written all over him!

 

[texdog]

I like Mitch Hallahan a lot. Has BMac written all over him!

Why type of player is he?

 

[spindles_12]

Why type of player is he?

A strongly built, clearance-winning midfielder who can also kick a long goal. (According to the hawthorn website.)

 

[texdog]

A strongly built, clearance-winning midfielder who can also kick a long goal. (According to the hawthorn website.)

Don't think we need another inside mid though

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Problem with Hallahan for mine is that he's not very good 1v1. Will be found out at AFL level imo and that's the major reason he's yet to play a game.

 

[Trent85]

FOUR Melbourne clubs last week met Brisbane rebounding defender Sam Docherty, who is likely to tell the Lions he wants out this week.
Docherty was a No.12 draft pick two years ago and has shown real promise in 13 games off halfback this year.
But after meeting Carlton, Essendon, the Western Bulldogs and North Melbourne, he has gone home to Phillip Island to consider his future.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ons-he-wants-out/story-fni5f4q3-1226724697339

 

[Maddog1980]

FOUR Melbourne clubs last week met Brisbane rebounding defender Sam Docherty, who is likely to tell the Lions he wants out this week.
Docherty was a No.12 draft pick two years ago and has shown real promise in 13 games off halfback this year.
But after meeting Carlton, Essendon, the Western Bulldogs and North Melbourne, he has gone home to Phillip Island to consider his future.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ons-he-wants-out/story-fni5f4q3-1226724697339

What do we need to offer to make this happen?

Pick 22 and a fringe player? Wood....?

Wouldn't want to be trading pick 4 or downgrading it. If we could get Scharenberg and Docherty i would be happy. Much prefer Docherty and Sharenberg to Crameri/Patton/White