Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[fronkalicious]

FOUR Melbourne clubs last week met Brisbane rebounding defender Sam Docherty, who is likely to tell the Lions he wants out this week.
Docherty was a No.12 draft pick two years ago and has shown real promise in 13 games off halfback this year.
But after meeting Carlton, Essendon, the Western Bulldogs and North Melbourne, he has gone home to Phillip Island to consider his future.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ons-he-wants-out/story-fni5f4q3-1226724697339

This is where McCartney becomes such a weapon for us. The man can SELL! Love docherty. We must be willing to trade out some players given we're pursuing Crameri, docherty and maybe Patton and that we'll want to be active in the draft as well.

 

[BRWB]

Good or great players at the top of their game will improve the side they are in clearly.
If next year the best player in the premier team turns out to be a back pocket, does that mean we all need to rush out and
buy up a Gary-back-pocket-Jnr to make our side complete? Certainly not.

There is always more as they say than "one way to skin a cat".

I have no objection to us having a Patton or Boyd in our team, but I do not believe for one moment that it is a case of ...that or bust.

This is why I am not on the 'gorilla FF at any cost' band wagon.
That, and that as the game continues to speed up I believe there will be less and less a role for the 'traditional' gorillas. Key position players
increasingly will become elite running athletes, merely being tall just won't cut the mustard for much longer. That is if it still does already.

Ours is a rapidly evolving game these days, and yesterday's imperatives are tomorrows antiquities. Any good coach formulates his game plan/s
A] to suit the team he has [and bolsters what he sees as it's weaknesses when he can].
B] to counter the opposition's strengths/plans, increasingly in individual ways.

It has always been this way with our game [ think Barrasi's "handball at all costs" directive; Carlton's introduction years ago of the 'mosquito fleet' concept etc.].

If you have a classic gun FF, great. If not you find an alternative way to get the cat naked, rather than running around in ever decreasing circles thinking about nothing other than finding a gorilla at any cost.

A few seasons back a lot of posters on here thought big Will was a hack as a ruckman, now lo and behold he is AA.
Neither he nor Campbell are presently top line when playing [ resting] at FF or FP. Both are serviceable at least however.
I see no reason Campbell should not come on as Will has both in the ruck, and F50. Nor do I believe if Will has improved that much in ruck skills,
that he cannot do the same with his forward skills, if as Campbell gradually gets a higher % of ruck time.

Like I say, yes a top shelf FF would be nice, but it sure as hell is not the only chance of us getting better, not the "only" route to a premiership window.

Ok we pretty much agree its a dumb idea to trade Minson for Patton.

But dude, yeah the game is evolving but call me simple but you still need to be able to catch it and kick it.

Below is a list of premiership teams in the last 20 years - is it coincidence that nearly of them have very good key marking forwards? And is it coincidence that the multiple premiership winning teams had more good KPF's? All I am saying it is an exception rather than the rule that teams win finals and especially premierships without very good marking gorillas in the fwd line.

And no I don't want to repeat 08-10 when we nearly did it without one and we all bemoaned our lack of a KPF. I still have shivers over our apparent refusal to trade the pick that netted us Jarrad Grant for Barry Hall a year earlier than we got him...

If we have an opportunity to get one (Patton) and he is fit, and he costs us Pick 4 just do it.

2012 Syd - Reid, Goodes, Pyke, Mumford - possibly dodgy
07, 09, 11 - Geel - Hawkins, Pods, Ottens, Mooney
10 - Coll - Cloke
08 - Hawks - Roughead, Franklin
06 - WC? - Lynch, Hansen and Hunter - dodgy
05 - Syd - Hall
04 - Port - Tredrea
01-03 - Bris - Lynch, Bradshaw, Brown
00 - Ess - Lloyd, Lucas, Hird
96, 99 - Nth - Carey, Longmire
97/98 - Adel ? Modra during year - dodgy
95 - Carl - Kernahan
92, 94 - Eagles - Sumich

 

[Igloo]

Would rather Docherty over Crameri. A more amicable trading partner, and he's a good age for us. If we could bring him and Patton in, that is a seriously large core of players around the same age we have coming through.

 

[spindles_12]

If we were to trade for docherty, what/who would we trade for him?

Also hearing that Howard is attracting interest from Adelaide. Only a rumor though.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I'm still very keen on jed lamb. Think he compliments our squad very nicely. Wonder if a 3rd rounder and a fringe player (Howard) or 4th round upgrade would get it done??? Good talent. Still unsigned.

Considering Lamb is probably a better prospect than Stevens, and we paid pick 44 for Stevens, we'd need to pay more for him than that.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

How active do people expect us to be during the trade period? It seems likely that we'll get Crameri, and it sounds like we're serious about Patton and Docherty, and there are rumours around Howard going to Adelaide. I know there are rumours every year that never happen, but I don't remember a year where the rumours were so strong.

 

[fronkalicious]

Would rather Docherty over Crameri. A more amicable trading partner, and he's a good age for us. If we could bring him and Patton in, that is a seriously large core of players around the same age we have coming through.

Smart man igloo. Patton and docherty my preferred combination. Both still puppy dogs really and join that core of guys from 22-18 that we have.

 

[fronkalicious]

How active do people expect us to be during the trade period? It seems likely that we'll get Crameri, and it sounds like we're serious about Patton and Docherty, and there are rumours around Howard going to Adelaide. I know there are rumours every year that never happen, but I don't remember a year where the rumours were so strong.

Who do you think we could offer up dannnnnn? We can't just lampoon all of our picks obviously.

Wood
Howard
Grant

Sounds odd, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some surprises and we moved a player or 2 that none of us expected.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Who do you think we could offer up dannnnnn? We can't just lampoon all of our picks obviously.

Wood
Howard
Grant

Sounds odd, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some surprises and we moved a player or 2 that none of us expected.

I think Higgins and Grant are gone. Past that I'm not sure. Unfortunately the only trades I can think of have us losing both pick 4 and pick 22 - not an ideal situation in the slightest.

 

[fronkalicious]

I think Higgins and Grant are gone. Past that I'm not sure. Unfortunately the only trades I can think of have us losing both pick 4 and pick 22 - not an ideal situation in the slightest.

Grant could be enough for docherty?? I agree that he could go.

Higgins I can only see going in a trade for Crameri. And id happily pony up pick 4 for your boy.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Grant could be enough for docherty?? I agree that he could go.

Higgins I can only see going in a trade for Crameri. And id happily pony up pick 4 for your boy.

Very much doubt that. If he played tall he may have been enough, but I'm not sure Brisbane would be that interested. Ultimately I'd actually rather keep Grant to be honest.

Yeah, I think Higgins will be involved in a Crameri trade too. Especially if we're legitimately interested in Docherty.

 

[StringyDog]

Don't rule out Tutt, maybe our window shopping of him at years end when he didnt deserve games got someone interested

 

[stefoid]

I think Higgins and Grant are gone. Past that I'm not sure. Unfortunately the only trades I can think of have us losing both pick 4 and pick 22 - not an ideal situation in the slightest.

How come?

 

[doggies ftw]

If we ended up with 10 and 11 (and didn't get Patton) I'd love to get Lennon and then McCartney even if it might be a little early for McCartney (as long as he hasn't had 12 knee recos too )

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Don't see how we're going to get Patton, Crameri & Doherty.

This may be realistic

Pick 4 + Wood - for Patton - Return Pick 11
Pick 11 for Doherty
Pick 22 + Higgins for Crameri

Doherty was Pick 12 IIRC. His value is still around that area

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Don't rule out Tutt, maybe our window shopping of him at years end when he didnt deserve games got someone interested

Tutt worth a late second rounder at most?

 

[Super Hans]

Sheed and Lennon would be my choice.

 

[fronkalicious]

Tutt worth a late second rounder at most?

Less......

 

[fronkalicious]

Don't see how we're going to get Patton, Crameri & Doherty.

This may be realistic

Pick 4 + Wood - for Patton - Return Pick 11
Pick 11 for Doherty
Pick 22 + Higgins for Crameri

Doherty was Pick 12 IIRC. His value is still around that area

No way we'd get Patton and 11 for 4 and wood.

Crameri for Higgins
Patton for pick 4
Docherty for grant and a swap of 2nd rounders.

 

[StringyDog]

Less......

In reality yes, but teams do funny things at trade time, especially a team like Brisbane that has a mass of players wanting to be traded out, they can't replace them with 6-7 kids as that would send them backwards too much

 

[doggies ftw]

This is where McCartney becomes such a weapon for us. The man can SELL! Love docherty. We must be willing to trade out some players given we're pursuing Crameri, docherty and maybe Patton and that we'll want to be active in the draft as well.

Awesome to see some actual rumours about us being interested in Docherty (and Patton, I'm with you guys, if we score them two we have seriously improved our list) and yeah seems we are interested in so many players but we all know Macca will still want to be a big player in the draft so we might just see some really unexpected trades this off season, Macca will know who he sees a place for and anyone else will be on the table I think, just don't know who

I'm sort of starting to go off Crameri a little bit, I just think Docherty and Patton are much better fits and would just be trying to get them two and then hit the draft with hopefully some extra picks as well, even if we go into the draft with maybe one highish pick but then a few around the 30-40 mark who we have specific players in mind for, to go along with Docherty and Patton, I'd like that.

Really push hard for the Patton and 11 for 4, 22 and Wood trade, then another player trade for Docherty (no idea who but Brisbane are losing so many players in that 19-21 age bracket they might be more interested in players rather than draft picks) and then try to offload some like Howard and Tutt who may just have some interest.

So ending up with something like - the big forward and rebounding defender we need in Patton and Docherty who are in the perfect age group and development stage for our list, the utility who could be anything in Lennon, the third tall to learn off Morris for a couple of years before taking over in Jake K, and to finish it off another goal kicking, classy mid like Sicily, (and to get Garlett too would just be perfect but maybe I'm going a little far now that would just be way way wayyyy too good)

So much water to go under the bridge though who knows whats going to happen!

 

[wian]

If we ended up with 10 and 11 (and didn't get Patton) I'd love to get Lennon and then McCartney even if it might be a little early for McCartney (as long as he hasn't had 12 knee recos too )

At least if we got Lennon and McCartney, we might have a pretty good Music Band on our hands ! hehe !

 

[dogwatch]

IIRC we should hear tomorrow what the AFL's response will be to Melbourne's request for a priority pick. They said it would be announced on Brownlow Day.

Prepare for WWIII if they give them a first rounder (either #1 or straight after their #2 pick).

 

[Tommycash]

IIRC we should hear tomorrow what the AFL's response will be to Melbourne's request for a priority pick. They said it would be announced on Brownlow Day.

Prepare for WWIII if they give them a first rounder (either #1 or straight after their #2 pick).

The AFL website suggests they might get an end of first rounder, which is still too much for me. Awesome DP by the way.

 

[Interloper]

I'd be rapt if we could pick up all of Crameri, Doherty and Scharenberg. Not too bothered about Patton. Another tall KPD would be good and keep Grant.

Pick 4 and Scharenberg in the draft
22 and Wood for Docherty
Higgins for Crameri