Strategy Trade and List Management thread 3 (...The pining for the departed. Edition)

[Bont2Bruce]

I suppose overall, we have:

• Lost one player who we wanted to keep (Hammer)
• Gained one player who we wanted to gain (Cloke)
• Upgraded our second round pick from 40 to 26
• Upgraded our third round pick from 58 to 50
• Upgraded next year's third to north's third next year
• Downgraded next year's fourth to saints' fifth next year (our fourth is likely to be in the 70s, so this is pretty inconsequential)
• Given away some picks we weren't using
• Given away players we were never keeping (Stevens, Hrovat) cheaply

It's nothing special, but not a bad trade period overall.

We gave away our 2016 3rd round pick for Carlton's 4th last year. We actually upgraded Pick 63 to Pick 50 through the recent trade period.

 

[Royale]

We must be opening up a fair amount of extra cap space for next year. 3 depth players gone, Cloke in for cheap and maybe a retirement or two next year.

Who's our big fish target for 2017?

Personally I hope we go for Jasper Pittard.

 

[SedatSir316]

Koby was best 22 at the start of the year but I don't think he would have got a sniff in 2017, who would have he honestly replaced from our Grand Final team? And that's before you consider Crameri, Bob, Adams, Suckers, Wallis, Redpath Jong and even Cloke as being in line before him. That's before we even consider Williams, Webb, Dale as making a push.

Would have been great to keep as depth on a minimum level contract (same with Hrovat) but they had better offers.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Pick 50 is in the 3rd round.

Whoops sorry. So no 4th rounders but we used one to get Cloke, so essentially Talia for Cloke?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Whoops sorry. So no 4th rounders but we used one to get Cloke, so essentially Talia for Cloke?

I first read that as "Talia for Coke" and giggled to myself.

I'm very mature.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Whoops sorry. So no 4th rounders but we used one to get Cloke, so essentially Talia for Cloke?

Close enough, given that we aren't using the pick 75 that we got for Talia and got Cloke for Pick 76.

 

[Ozil]

Jesus, do people really think it was that bad?

Rat has major upside but he was worth zilch. It'll look better when we finish 12 spots higher than them, anyway.

Koby will likely follow the same path for the Saints as he did with us. Walk into the 22 for a couple of years and get squeezed out because they lack class.

 

[Freshwater]

Horrible trading period by us. But far from worst in comp. We seem to be good drafted but very average traders. We seem to be easy to manipulate, I don't know if it's just a cunning stunt or not.

We are great traders. Remember getting Tom Boyd for pick 6 and Griff? What a wonderful trade, has already delivered and will only continue to give. Plus most trades are has-beens or never will be's so the whole trade week is generally over rated.

 

[Royale]

Excited to see big Clokey in a dogs guernsey. Can't wait to see him line up and kick them OOTF from 20 meters out.

 

[hujsh]

I first read that as "Talia for Coke" and giggled to myself.

I'm very mature.

Anyone can get Talia for coke. Hard to contact him though since he's always losing his phone

 

[dogzrule]

Looking at the list now
Bob, Morris, Moyd, Prudden and Hamilton my guesses for retirement/delistments next year
*Bob is that we win the flag next year and he finishes up with his two mates*

plus Adams off maybe plus there are always one or two that want to be traded

Out of Contract During 2017 from Footywire

Name Years Service Status
Bailey Dale 3 Non-Free Agent
Bailey Williams 2 Non-Free Agent
Caleb Daniel 3 Non-Free Agent
Clay Smith 6 Non-Free Agent
Dale Morris 13 Unrestricted Free Agent
Declan Hamilton 3 Non-Free Agent
Fletcher Roberts 6 Non-Free Agent
Jack Redpath 6 Non-Free Agent
Jason Johannisen 7 Non-Free Agent
Josh Dunkley 2 Non-Free Agent
Kieran Collins 2 Non-Free Agent
Liam Picken 9 Restricted Free Agent
Lukas Webb 3 Non-Free Agent
Marcus Adams 2 Non-Free Agent
Matthew Boyd 15 Unrestricted Free Agent
Mitch Honeychurch 4 Non-Free Agent
Toby McLean 3 Non-Free Agent

 

[JJHunter]

Which year do you mean?

We didn't receive any 2017 4th round picks last year, because we couldn't have. You must mean 2016 4th rounders?

Going into the 2016 trade period, we had 3x 2016 4th round picks: Carlton's (from a 2015 pick swap), Sydney's (from the 2015 Talia trade) and ours (last in the round).

We traded Carlton's 4th rounder to Fremantle as part of the Hamling deal.
We traded ours to Collingwood for Cloke.
We still have Sydney's (pick 75).

For 2017, we gave our 4th round pick to North for theirs in the Hrovat trade.
Meaning the only 2017 4th round pick that was available to give to St Kilda was actually the North 4th round pick. Leaving us with no 4th round pick in 2017.

No I was explaining how we were able to trade two - I should have said HAD 2 4th rounders Sorry.
Like you say we HAD them but traded to the Saints and another with the roos.

 

[bobby2]

We gave away our 2016 3rd round pick for Carlton's 4th last year. We actually upgraded Pick 63 to Pick 50 through the recent trade period.

Oops, thanks. Well that just means we've done even better

 

[Royale]

We received Biggs and pick 39 in return for our pick 37, in the 2014 draft because Sydney simply couldn't hold onto him.

Swings and round abouts.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Jesus, do people really think it was that bad?

No. We turned picks 18, 40 and 63 into picks 18, 26 and 50.

We didn't want to lose Hamling, but didn't cut off our nose to spite our face.
We shouldn't have downgraded North's 4th for StKilda's 5th - that was dumb, but I'm not 100% that's what happened yet. AFL media haven't reported the Stevens trade clearly at any stage.

 

[Northern Dogs]

An interesting way to look at things is that with Cloke, we have gained 246 games of experience and with Stevens, Hrovat and Hamling leaving, we have lost 127 games. I know, I'm excluding Minson and Adcock, but they are both retiring anyway and did not contribute a large amount to our young premiership winning side of last year. So, on that basis, we probably did ok.

 

[bobby2]

Worse than Adelaide? Geelong? Port?

For me, worst of all was Carlton:

• Lost one good player in Tuohy.
• Added one valuable player in Marchbank.
• Picked up three list cloggers in Smedts, Pickett and Palmer.
• Downgraded their 2017 second to pick 48 this year and a couple of useless late picks.

They've done really well if their ultimate goal was to have as many first round picks on their list as possible (they'll have 22 after the draft). If that's not what they were looking to do, it's bloody hard to see what they're trying to achieve.

 

[Royale]

No. We turned picks 18, 40 and 63 into picks 18, 26 and 50.

We didn't want to lose Hamling, but didn't cut off our nose to spite our face.
We shouldn't have downgraded North's 4th for StKilda's 5th - that was dumb, but I'm not 100% that's what happened yet. AFL media haven't reported the Stevens trade clearly at any stage.

We turned 18, 40 and 63 into 18, 26 and 50 plus Cloke.

Yep, so, we have exiting:-
Minson
Hamling
Stevens
Hrovat
Adcock

And for the ins we have:-
Cloke
Pick 18
Pick 26
Pick 50
Pick 75

That about it?

 

[Royale]

For me, worst of all was Carlton:

• Lost one good player in Tuohy.
• Added one valuable player in Marchbank.
• Picked up three list cloggers in Smedts, Pickett and Palmer.
• Downgraded their 2017 second to pick 48 this year and a couple of useless late picks.

They've done really well if their ultimate goal was to have as many first round picks on their list as possible (they'll have 22 after the draft). If that's not what they were looking to do, it's bloody hard to see what they're trying to achieve.

Marchbank hasn't done much. GWS dont have that good a record for drafting gun key defenders.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Yep, so, we have exiting:-
Minson
Hamling
Stevens
Hrovat
Adcock

And for the ins we have:-
Cloke
Pick 18
Pick 26
Pick 50
Pick 75

That about it?

We won't be using Pick 75.

Prudden is the only uncontracted player at the moment. Could be cut and redrafted as a rookie, or given another deal on the main list.

We could either upgrade Smith / Lynchh or chase a DFA in the event that Prudden is not on the senior list for 2017. Otherwise, we're done by the looks of it and take 18, 26 and 50 to the draft.

 

[Royale]

We won't be using Pick 75.

Prudden is the only uncontracted player at the moment. Could be cut and redrafted as a rookie, or given another deal on the main list.

We could either upgrade Smith / Lynchh or chase a DFA in the event that Prudden is not on the senior list for 2017. Otherwise, we're done by the looks of it.

Yeah, was thinking pick 75 will be used on an upgrade.

 

[bobby2]

Yep, so, we have exiting:-
Minson
Hamling
Stevens
Hrovat
Adcock

And for the ins we have:-
Cloke
Pick 18
Pick 26
Pick 50
Pick 75

That about it?

I think it's more like:
IN:
Cloke
18
26
50
2 rookie picks
OUT:
Minson
Hammer
Hrovat
Stevens
Adcock (rookie)
Goetz (rookie)

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Yeah, was thinking pick 75 will be used on an upgrade.

We don't have enough senior list spots open yet, unless Prudden is cut.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

In the cool light of day I've had a think about our trade period. I'll be honest, was a little underwhelmed.

Barrett thought we had something cooking, PG said watch for us to be very aggressive this off season. What I saw was like the total opposite of aggressive.

The Hamling deal. Not great but to be fair we couldn't have gotten much more out of it. I probably would have held firm on pick 35 outright. We bent a little and it set the theme for the remainder of the period. Disappointed to lose Joel but these things happen.

Koby deal. Had hoped for better but look, not too bad. Look at it as pick 50 outright for him. Will we use a 4th round next year? Probably not. 61 wasn't needed by us either so I'm not too phased by that deal.

Cloke deal. The one we didn't bend over on. To get him in on that kinda money and for that pick is a very good trade. Very happy with it. Early next year, others will come around.

The pick upgrade deal. Good deal. An early second in Dally's hands is very very handy, will do some real damage.

The Hrovat deal. This annoyed me. Basically gave him up for an early to mid 3rd rounder which will end up mid to late 40's. Disappointing. Especially as it takes our third away as well. So much for a bidding war. Was a bad choice originally for us and we sold low unfortunately.

Needs. I think we need a key defender to replace Hamling. Someone ready to go would be preferable. A ruckman. Maybe do a Goetz type thing again. We've lost two ruckmen, we need a replacement. Anything else I'd say best available but some pace/polish in the midfield would be nice or some extra pace down back.

Cloke in on minimal money, 3 draftees, two rookies and Hamling, Stevens, Minson and Hrovat gone. If we had $700k to throw at Hurley and those guys just left, we're gonna be in a good position to front end some guys and build a solid war chest to attack with over the next couple years, especially with Boyd leaving next year (surely) and Murph might as well. If Adams goes then we need to aim high on a key defender.

 

[Mofra]

For me, worst of all was Carlton:

• Lost one good player in Tuohy.
• Added one valuable player in Marchbank.
• Picked up three list cloggers in Smedts, Pickett and Palmer.
• Downgraded their 2017 second to pick 48 this year and a couple of useless late picks.

They've done really well if their ultimate goal was to have as many first round picks on their list as possible (they'll have 22 after the draft). If that's not what they were looking to do, it's bloody hard to see what they're trying to achieve.

Adelaide?
Entering their window supposedly, lose Lyons for cheap and gain nothing.

Hawthorn?
Lose no 1 and no 2 in the B&F, trade everything this year and next for JOM who hasn't played football in 2 years, Tom Mitchell (who is good) and Tyrone Vickery who isn't as woeful as everyone says, but is still very very average.

Geelong?
Chased Lids, only ended up with Touhy after losing Caddy (nil-all draw), tried to offload Motlop (no buyers), lost Kerstan for nothing and gained his lesser equivalent in Aaron Black after agreeing to carry the last year of his $400k pa contract. Picks out hurt too.

Brisbane?
Lose one of their few decent players (Hanley) at a time they really need to keep players.