Strategy Trade and List Management thread 3 (...The pining for the departed. Edition)

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Will probably be a controversial opinion;

But if we lose JJ, I reckon we go after Sam Reid (Sydney) - as long as we don't pay overs for him. His a FA at end of season correct?

Seen three Sydney games live this season including ours vs them, and his leading/marking to the ball is something we desperately need deep Inside 50. Also versatile which Bevo would like.

Kicked 19.6 as well, so rather accurate.

Is he injury prone ?
I wouldn't mind Him tbh

We have to raid some bottom teams players. Gunston name gets thrown up also

I've said this before. Missing the finals could be more beneficial long term to us then making it

It would force the club to reasses the list

 

[TommyD13]

I think there are currently only 32 players that I would have on our list next year, and here they are broke down into what I think are their best positions. Players in bold are this years draftees who I am keeping no matter what so they have time to prove themselves.
Rucks
Jordan Roughead- premiership ruckman just getting back to his best might take a while- definantly a ruckman, looks lost when he goes down back
Tom Boyd- better in the ruck but can go forward if required- need him taking big marks around the ground and get him mobile and dangerous
Tim English- genuine prospect- could be a serious weapon going forward
Key Forwards
N/A- I fink we need a couple of these bad boys
Forward/Wings
Toby McLean- looking pretty solid at the moment- has lots of upside
Bailey Dale- I think he will be very good for us in the future, good signs
Caleb Daniel- little livewire isnt he
Jack Macrae- really pulling his weight- love the way he goes about it
Liam Picken- people say hes over the cliff- I think just a bit out of form
Lachie Hunter- out of form but can be really good when he is on song
Tory Dickson- best kick for goal in the side
Patrick Lipinski- really exciting prospect- dont be shocked if in a couple of years he is a genuine superstar
Fergus Greene- really promising, maybe a little injury prone which could cost him
Forward/On Balls
Marcus Bontempelli- match winner- enough said
Mitch Wallis- come back really strong
Lin Jong- was in career best form until that ACL
Jake Stringer- can be real damaging in here
Tom Liberatore- out of form but genuine superstar
Josh Dunkley- needs to work on kicking but liking the way he was coming along
Luke Dahlhaus- very ferocious- true bulldog
Clay Smith- need more like him with his attack on the footy
Tristan Tweedie- feel like he could be like Stringer and throw his body around a bit
Small Defenders
Jason Johannisen- need to keep him, hes a game changer
Lukas Webb- best position I reckon, where he looked most promising
Easton Wood- not been at his best but we know he can be really damaging
Bailey Williams- very promising talent
Shane Biggs- not as good as last year but good role player none the less and premiership player- fan favourite around here
Brad Lynch- reckon he will be a real gem, just needs to find it on a consistent basis
Key Defenders
Zaine Cordy- best down back I reckon
Fletcher Roberts- actually really rate him
Marcus Adams- been very good until he hurt himself
Lewis Young- feel like he reads the ball really well and this position suits him more than up forward
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh- same as Young

Players I Would Get Rid Of
Travis Cloke- never really liked him- never will, too old to show much improvement
Jack Redpath- got a soft spot for him but we gotta be equal to all players and he just doesnt butter no parsnips
Dale Morris- been a legend but want all three of them to go out together- loved him
Matthew Boyd- same as Morris
Robert Murphy- same as Morris
Matthew Suckling- grrrr. I just dont think he offers any more than his kicking which realistically isnt that much of a weapon anyhow
Roarke Smith- too injury prone and not quite shown enough- thought he could have made it but ACL came at the wrong time
Josh Prudden- good player- just too many injuries have made him slow and not quite effective
Declan Hamilton- next
Mitch Honeychurch- just cant kick- cant question his desire but gosh
Stewart Crameri- too long out for me to actually regain his form
Kieran Collins- bit slow, dont really like him that much- just re-signed so he is staying but if I was in charge he wouldnt be
Tom Campbell- just pathetic in my opinion- really slow and unco

That leaves us with 8 senior list spots up for grabs and a lot of cap room. We need to recruit an ok key defender (McStay sorta level) , a proven key forward in their prime, and another youngish key forward. Then in the draft we need to grab two KPP and another two players who are very good ball users, ideally a forward and a back and then a half backer with genuine speed. Then on the rookie list (if is stays) we just need to pick up a couple of project players and maybe someone like Prudden if we want to.

 

[Dogsman16]

I think there are currently only 32 players that I would have on our list next year, and here they are broke down into what I think are their best positions. Players in bold are this years draftees who I am keeping no matter what so they have time to prove themselves.
Rucks
Jordan Roughead- premiership ruckman just getting back to his best might take a while- definantly a ruckman, looks lost when he goes down back
Tom Boyd- better in the ruck but can go forward if required- need him taking big marks around the ground and get him mobile and dangerous
Tim English- genuine prospect- could be a serious weapon going forward
Key Forwards
N/A- I fink we need a couple of these bad boys
Forward/Wings
Toby McLean- looking pretty solid at the moment- has lots of upside
Bailey Dale- I think he will be very good for us in the future, good signs
Caleb Daniel- little livewire isnt he
Jack Macrae- really pulling his weight- love the way he goes about it
Liam Picken- people say hes over the cliff- I think just a bit out of form
Lachie Hunter- out of form but can be really good when he is on song
Tory Dickson- best kick for goal in the side
Patrick Lipinski- really exciting prospect- dont be shocked if in a couple of years he is a genuine superstar
Fergus Greene- really promising, maybe a little injury prone which could cost him
Forward/On Balls
Marcus Bontempelli- match winner- enough said
Mitch Wallis- come back really strong
Lin Jong- was in career best form until that ACL
Jake Stringer- can be real damaging in here
Tom Liberatore- out of form but genuine superstar
Josh Dunkley- needs to work on kicking but liking the way he was coming along
Luke Dahlhaus- very ferocious- true bulldog
Clay Smith- need more like him with his attack on the footy
Tristan Tweedie- feel like he could be like Stringer and throw his body around a bit
Small Defenders
Jason Johannisen- need to keep him, hes a game changer
Lukas Webb- best position I reckon, where he looked most promising
Easton Wood- not been at his best but we know he can be really damaging
Bailey Williams- very promising talent
Shane Biggs- not as good as last year but good role player none the less and premiership player- fan favourite around here
Brad Lynch- reckon he will be a real gem, just needs to find it on a consistent basis
Key Defenders
Zaine Cordy- best down back I reckon
Fletcher Roberts- actually really rate him
Marcus Adams- been very good until he hurt himself
Lewis Young- feel like he reads the ball really well and this position suits him more than up forward
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh- same as Young

Players I Would Get Rid Of
Travis Cloke- never really liked him- never will, too old to show much improvement
Jack Redpath- got a soft spot for him but we gotta be equal to all players and he just doesnt butter no parsnips
Dale Morris- been a legend but want all three of them to go out together- loved him
Matthew Boyd- same as Morris
Robert Murphy- same as Morris
Matthew Suckling- grrrr. I just dont think he offers any more than his kicking which realistically isnt that much of a weapon anyhow
Roarke Smith- too injury prone and not quite shown enough- thought he could have made it but ACL came at the wrong time
Josh Prudden- good player- just too many injuries have made him slow and not quite effective
Declan Hamilton- next
Mitch Honeychurch- just cant kick- cant question his desire but gosh
Stewart Crameri- too long out for me to actually regain his form
Kieran Collins- bit slow, dont really like him that much- just re-signed so he is staying but if I was in charge he wouldnt be
Tom Campbell- just pathetic in my opinion- really slow and unco

That leaves us with 8 senior list spots up for grabs and a lot of cap room. We need to recruit an ok key defender (McStay sorta level) , a proven key forward in their prime, and another youngish key forward. Then in the draft we need to grab two KPP and another two players who are very good ball users, ideally a forward and a back and then a half backer with genuine speed. Then on the rookie list (if is stays) we just need to pick up a couple of project players and maybe someone like Prudden if we want to.

Probably the biggest overreaction I've seen on this thread.

Are we just going to produce A grade key forwards out of nowhere. Yes we need another key forward and hopefully with a first round pick but getting rid off all the key forward we have is sheer stupidity!

 

[iambrilliant]

Would love an eddy betts type up forward!!

 

[TommyD13]

Probably the biggest overreaction I've seen on this thread.

Are we just going to produce A grade key forwards out of nowhere. Yes we need another key forward and hopefully with a first round pick but getting rid off all the key forward we have is sheer stupidity!

No, like I said in my post Cloke and Redpath arent quite up to it. So what we do is, like I said in my post was we need a genuine key forward in their prime, and a youngish one who is a bit of depth for the time being. And then, as I said in my post we will draft a couple of KPP so we can develop our own talent.

 

[fronkalicious]

Hunter is getting butchered by beveridge this year IMO. Playing loose behind the ball a lot where his is awfully ineffective. He has become the king of the sideways/backwards safe option that teams are happy for him to take.

Get him back on the wing please Luke.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I think there are currently only 32 players that I would have on our list next year, and here they are broke down into what I think are their best positions. Players in bold are this years draftees who I am keeping no matter what so they have time to prove themselves.
Rucks
Jordan Roughead- premiership ruckman just getting back to his best might take a while- definantly a ruckman, looks lost when he goes down back
Tom Boyd- better in the ruck but can go forward if required- need him taking big marks around the ground and get him mobile and dangerous
Tim English- genuine prospect- could be a serious weapon going forward
Key Forwards
N/A- I fink we need a couple of these bad boys
Forward/Wings
Toby McLean- looking pretty solid at the moment- has lots of upside
Bailey Dale- I think he will be very good for us in the future, good signs
Caleb Daniel- little livewire isnt he
Jack Macrae- really pulling his weight- love the way he goes about it
Liam Picken- people say hes over the cliff- I think just a bit out of form
Lachie Hunter- out of form but can be really good when he is on song
Tory Dickson- best kick for goal in the side
Patrick Lipinski- really exciting prospect- dont be shocked if in a couple of years he is a genuine superstar
Fergus Greene- really promising, maybe a little injury prone which could cost him
Forward/On Balls
Marcus Bontempelli- match winner- enough said
Mitch Wallis- come back really strong
Lin Jong- was in career best form until that ACL
Jake Stringer- can be real damaging in here
Tom Liberatore- out of form but genuine superstar
Josh Dunkley- needs to work on kicking but liking the way he was coming along
Luke Dahlhaus- very ferocious- true bulldog
Clay Smith- need more like him with his attack on the footy
Tristan Tweedie- feel like he could be like Stringer and throw his body around a bit
Small Defenders
Jason Johannisen- need to keep him, hes a game changer
Lukas Webb- best position I reckon, where he looked most promising
Easton Wood- not been at his best but we know he can be really damaging
Bailey Williams- very promising talent
Shane Biggs- not as good as last year but good role player none the less and premiership player- fan favourite around here
Brad Lynch- reckon he will be a real gem, just needs to find it on a consistent basis
Key Defenders
Zaine Cordy- best down back I reckon
Fletcher Roberts- actually really rate him
Marcus Adams- been very good until he hurt himself
Lewis Young- feel like he reads the ball really well and this position suits him more than up forward
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh- same as Young

Players I Would Get Rid Of
Travis Cloke- never really liked him- never will, too old to show much improvement
Jack Redpath- got a soft spot for him but we gotta be equal to all players and he just doesnt butter no parsnips
Dale Morris- been a legend but want all three of them to go out together- loved him
Matthew Boyd- same as Morris
Robert Murphy- same as Morris
Matthew Suckling- grrrr. I just dont think he offers any more than his kicking which realistically isnt that much of a weapon anyhow
Roarke Smith- too injury prone and not quite shown enough- thought he could have made it but ACL came at the wrong time
Josh Prudden- good player- just too many injuries have made him slow and not quite effective
Declan Hamilton- next
Mitch Honeychurch- just cant kick- cant question his desire but gosh
Stewart Crameri- too long out for me to actually regain his form
Kieran Collins- bit slow, dont really like him that much- just re-signed so he is staying but if I was in charge he wouldnt be
Tom Campbell- just pathetic in my opinion- really slow and unco

That leaves us with 8 senior list spots up for grabs and a lot of cap room. We need to recruit an ok key defender (McStay sorta level) , a proven key forward in their prime, and another youngish key forward. Then in the draft we need to grab two KPP and another two players who are very good ball users, ideally a forward and a back and then a half backer with genuine speed. Then on the rookie list (if is stays) we just need to pick up a couple of project players and maybe someone like Prudden if we want to.

TBoyd has to at least be considered as a developing KPF option.

I'd give Crameri a chance to come back (cheaply) if he's willing. Yep it's two years out but it's also 2 years break for the body.

Not sure why people want Moz out. He's easily picked on form so until then I'd encourage him on.

Murphy too was a long time out let's see him settle in before we call him too. Remembering he has a low impact body and game so could go on longer than most.

Way too early to call it on Collins

Suckling been ok

All IMO of course

 

[King Harold]

I was told by someone at the club that Bev was very happy to see the back of Stevens. No idea why.

But in principle I agree 100%.

Let's just say Stevo has a fairly high opinion of himself.
That good be both good and bad , so don't shoot the messenger here !

 

[King Harold]

Hunter is getting butchered by beveridge this year IMO. Playing loose behind the ball a lot where his is awfully ineffective. He has become the king of the sideways/backwards safe option that teams are happy for him to take.

Get him back on the wing please Luke.

You are an astute observer Fronk.
A lot of my little band have been lamenting that very point . He had turned himself into a gun last year

 

[TommyD13]

TBoyd has to at least be considered as a developing KPF option.

I'd give Crameri a chance to come back (cheaply) if he's willing. Yep it's two years out but it's also 2 years break for the body.

Not sure why people want Moz out. He's easily picked on form so until then I'd encourage him on.

Murphy too was a long time out let's see him settle in before we call him too. Remembering he has a low impact body and game so could go on longer than most.

Way too early to call it on Collins

Suckling been ok

All IMO of course

Im just tryna provide my opinion on the mini-reboot that this list needs. I have considered Tom Boyd as a forward, but I see him as a ruck first at this stage and being more damaging around the ground. With Bob and Moz I want to retire, is not because they are not good enough, but I dont think they are going to be in our next premiership team. Kind of agree with Collins but have been saying for a while that I dont quite rate him, his lack of pace and just also that genuine gut feel. With Crameri I would rather take the draft pick we get for him. And Suckling has been ok youre right, but is he really a person you keep in your team instead of Williams and Webb etc. I think he would want to be best 22 so moving him on just makes sense to me. But like you said all that is just my opinion.

 

[Super Hans]

Mini rebuild?? Has everyone lost their mind??

 

[Dry Rot]

Mini rebuild?? Has everyone lost their mind??

Why? We have no tall forwards, about to lose half our back line and our midfield can't kick to save themselves.

 

[ScragCity]

Would love an eddy betts type up forward!!

So would every club in the league and Adelaide wish they had two of him...

 

[Sharkey66]

So would every club in the league and Adelaide wish they had two of him...

funnily enough we have one on the list. Dahl. Unfortunately he is an even better midfielder.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

funnily enough we have one on the list. Dahl. Unfortunately he is an even better midfielder.

But not a very reliable set shot . Good on the run tho.

 

[Doggiesfan14]

Why? We have no tall forwards, about to lose half our back line and our midfield can't kick to save themselves.

Are we forgetting Cloke and Redpath?! The game plan we currently have doesn't effectively suit their style

 

[Dry Rot]

Are we forgetting Cloke and Redpath?! The game plan we currently have doesn't effectively suit their style

Maybe I should posted good tall forwards.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Edit - wrong thread

 

[Super Hans]

Why? We have no tall forwards, about to lose half our back line and our midfield can't kick to save themselves.

When did Wood, Williams, JJ and Biggs announce their retirements?

We have a premiership forwardline. They're just out of form.

 

[TiAn_]

There's no point trading in key forwards while Bev is coach. We've got a 21 year old 200cm key forward on our list and he's being turned into a ruckman rather than learning how to get kicks as a forward. While our 20 year old CHB plays CHF unless there are injuries. And there are two mature key forwards that can't get picked.

 

[BulldogJake]

Is he injury prone ?
I wouldn't mind Him tbh

We have to raid some bottom teams players. Gunston name gets thrown up also

I've said this before. Missing the finals could be more beneficial long term to us then making it

It would force the club to reasses the list

The list is fine.

We have two bad losses - when we still have some key injuries - and people lose their ****ing minds, but it's what I expect on BF.

The list needs tinkering, that's all, ala Hawthorn '09 got Frawley, Gibson, Lake, Isaac Smith (MAR), and probably a couple others.

The only blokes I'm currently putting a line through are Prudden, Hamilton and Cloke. Honeychurch is one bad game away from joining them.

A Gunston, Reid and - in the case of losing JJ - Zac Jones - Yes, I know his a campaigner - are the players we should be looking at. Obviously we aren't getting all of them, but would be happy to give up a reasonable and fair draft pick for one of them.

 

[Dog 36]

What is status of B.Lynch? Rookie listed players can remain on Rookie list for how many years?

He has pace and not a bad kick on both sides of the body.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

The team is horribly devoid of confidence. I'm sure everyone has noticed that the outliers who were so destructive last year are getting butchered because the 3 or 4 at the coalface are getting monstered at the moment.

The number of times I saw us break free, a player turn to handball to someone expected to be there and there was no one there to receive the handball. For those on the opposite wing to the cameras, and I haven't watched the replay to see if it was noticed, the worst one was Bont chasing Nathan Jones on the wing, Jones turned inboard and Bont gave up the chase when he was close.

That just showed me how far we'd fallen.

The confidence will come back, it will turn and I'm sure we'll play finals - and probably well - but we are at the bottom of the trough right now and it's up to the best players to pull their fingers out and make a difference.

 

[Dogs Rule]

The team is horribly devoid of confidence. I'm sure everyone has noticed that the outliers who were so destructive last year are getting butchered because the 3 or 4 at the coalface are getting monstered at the moment.

The number of times I saw us break free, a player turn to handball to someone expected to be there and there was no one there to receive the handball. For those on the opposite wing to the cameras, and I haven't watched the replay to see if it was noticed, the worst one was Bont chasing Nathan Jones on the wing, Jones turned inboard and Bont gave up the chase when he was close.

That just showed me how far we'd fallen.

The confidence will come back, it will turn and I'm sure we'll play finals - and probably well - but we are at the bottom of the trough right now and it's up to the best players to pull their fingers out and make a difference.

Giving up is the most concerning thing for me in the past two weeks.

Opposition slicing through us like a hot knife through butter. Where's that fierce pressure from the finals? Non-existent.

 

[Sonsofthescray]

ESPN article..

Former flame divides once-close teammates

As Western Bulldogs fans and the footy public search for reasons behind the club's strangely ineffectual premiership defence, it emerges that an off-field, behind-the-scenes, incident could be responsible for divisions within the Dogs' ranks.

ESPN understands there's a rift between two once-close teammates involving a woman, the former flame of one who is now the partner of another.

The new-found relationship is said to have created a wedge within the playing group, throwing the club's premiership defence into further disarray.

The Dogs have lost much their bark following last year's fairy-tale premiership win, slumping to ninth after losing four of their past five matches.

http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/19676746/afl-front-centre-james-hird-makes-afl-return