Strategy Trade and List Management thread 3 (...The pining for the departed. Edition)

[BEaston]

Yeah I'm strongly in the Morris should play on camp (at the moment )

 

[immortalmike]

It's just that "of his own accord" means that the decision should be left up to him, which contradicts the rest of what you're saying.

I personally don't take issue with older players finishing their careers in the VFL and providing guidance for youngsters if their form drops off. There is nothing wrong with playing in the VFL. We have 45 players on our list, and only 22 can get selected each week. If you're not in the best 22 on a given week, you play VFL, contribute for Footscray and try to find some form that might see you promoted to the seniors. That applies to everyone from Lewis Youngest to Bob Oldest.

It's better to go one year too many than one year (or even worse, several years) too few. For every person saying Boyd should've retired last year with hindsight, there were four people clamouring for his retirement in 2014, before his resurgence. If he'd retired then, we almost definitely wouldn't be reigning premiers right now.

Morris was a star last year and he was playing well until he broke his leg this year. If a 26 year old had come back from a broken leg as strongly as Morris has, we'd be marvelling at how he was playing solid footy so quickly. It seems unreasonable to label his slight drop off as age related, when recovering from the broken leg could be an adequate explanation.

If he wants to go again, the club should absolutely let him. Best case scenario, he gets back near his 2016 form, is an absolute superstar, provides a wise head in a young backline and wins another premiership medal (or maybe even several more). Worst case scenario, he gets niggling injuries and his form drops off, but he still contributes to the club by teaching his younger teammates. There's a hell of a lot that Cordy, Adams, Young, Roberts, Collins and hopefully Lever could learn about defensive craft from Morris- he barely lost a one-on-one contest (in the air or on the ground) at all last year. Even that worst case is still a pretty good outcome. To me it seems like there is a lot of potential reward, with minimal risk.

Excellent post. Could not have said it better myself.

 

[go you pups]

I was at that game before we moved to QLD..... LOVED IT!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Yeah same

It was a Dogs replacement home game IIRC, there were **** all Norfies there but the top deck was 75-80% full of Doggies fans, the third quarter was great, Bazza was able to run in and kick a goal and bombed it up onto the third deck and it was easily one of the biggest roars I heard all season from us.

Lakey got like 190 DT points that day, 41 possies and 25 marks or something, outrageous

 

[DelRe]

It's just that "of his own accord" means that the decision should be left up to him, which contradicts the rest of what you're saying.

I personally don't take issue with older players finishing their careers in the VFL and providing guidance for youngsters if their form drops off. There is nothing wrong with playing in the VFL. We have 45 players on our list, and only 22 can get selected each week. If you're not in the best 22 on a given week, you play VFL, contribute for Footscray and try to find some form that might see you promoted to the seniors. That applies to everyone from Lewis Youngest to Bob Oldest.

It's better to go one year too many than one year (or even worse, several years) too few. For every person saying Boyd should've retired last year with hindsight, there were four people clamouring for his retirement in 2014, before his resurgence. If he'd retired then, we almost definitely wouldn't be reigning premiers right now.

Morris was a star last year and he was playing well until he broke his leg this year. If a 26 year old had come back from a broken leg as strongly as Morris has, we'd be marvelling at how he was playing solid footy so quickly. It seems unreasonable to label his slight drop off as age related, when recovering from the broken leg could be an adequate explanation.

If he wants to go again, the club should absolutely let him. Best case scenario, he gets back near his 2016 form, is an absolute superstar, provides a wise head in a young backline and wins another premiership medal (or maybe even several more). Worst case scenario, he gets niggling injuries and his form drops off, but he still contributes to the club by teaching his younger teammates. There's a hell of a lot that Cordy, Adams, Young, Roberts, Collins and hopefully Lever could learn about defensive craft from Morris- he barely lost a one-on-one contest (in the air or on the ground) at all last year. Even that worst case is still a pretty good outcome. To me it seems like there is a lot of potential reward, with minimal risk.

I like this strategy. One factor in the club deciding whether it wants a player to stay on though is whether they'd be keeping another player out of the side and hindering their development - you could say it's up to the younger player to force them out but sometimes you have to take the short term pain for the benefit of development I guess. Overall though it's an effective strategy if you have a well balanced list - ie a player coming into retirement and another as a natural successor coming through which it feels we do in the backline. In the forward line - and in some ways proving your point - is if you don't have that senior bigger body you have to go and get one like Cloke anyway so you may as well keep what you have if you have it.

One other aspect that might complicate it though is it potentially being dependent on the player buying into a transition - ie potentially not getting a game for the benefit of the younger player's development. Not all players will like that idea and would rather walk away and some based on other posts may change their minds along the way.

 

[go you pups]

Will Boyd ever be a quality forward though?? I have serious doubts.

If his coach actually played him there and persisted with there and got others to do the ruck work, yes

 

[VitalDread]

I wouldn't be surprised if bulldogs target one of the Mckay brothers in the trade period

 

[Hoges64]

I wouldn't be surprised if bulldogs target one of the Mckay brothers in the trade period

Geez, I'd COMPLETELY forgotten about those boys.

 

[Gollo]

I wouldn't be surprised if bulldogs target one of the Mckay brothers in the trade period

Not a fan of Harry McKay in the slightest. At all. Ben McKay I like a lot better. Has genuine swingman capacity.

 

[doggies ftw]

Not a fan of Harry McKay in the slightest. At all. Ben McKay I like a lot better. Has genuine swingman capacity.

Do we really need another swingman though? Don't get me wrong, a good swingman is great but all of Adams, Cordy, Young can do it. Personally I just want a gun, natural key forward!!! Don't think we'll ever bloody get one though!

 

[Hoges64]

Ironic considering we were just talking about contracts with Williams etc, but Harry McKay is signed on until end of 2019, and Ben is until end of 2018.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Adams is the only defender we have that I've seen able to have some sort of impact forward. Whenever Cordy has gone forward it's generally in a stopping role.

People talking about Young as a swingman, he's played one good game as a defender. Let's just calm down a little bit on Young. Also from what I remember of his draft highlights package, he's a really ordinary shot for goal as well.

 

[Gollo]

Do we really need another swingman though? Don't get me wrong, a good swingman is great but all of Adams, Cordy, Young can do it. Personally I just want a gun, natural key forward!!! Don't think we'll ever bloody get one though!

It's not about the need for a swingman, just that I think Ben McKay has far greater capacity to make it at AFL level, whereas I think Harry McKay will bust big-time.

 

[doggies ftw]

Adams is the only defender we have that I've seen able to have some sort of impact forward. Whenever Cordy has gone forward it's generally in a stopping role.

People talking about Young as a swingman, he's played one good game as a defender. Let's just calm down a little bit on Young. Also from what I remember of his draft highlights package, he's a really ordinary shot for goal as well.

They can all do a role though which is what a swingman does, Lever too if we can get him. My point clearly was that we need a genuine good key forward so much more. How many defenders around the league can legitimately play as a gun forward, rather than just a small role up forward. I wouldn't think there'd be many.

 

[Yojimbo]

I wouldn't be surprised if bulldogs target one of the Mckay brothers in the trade period

Have you seen the movie "Frankenstein" if you have not they
show it at Werribee and the Northern Blues most weeks.
Not a very good movie to be honest, but big young guys
do take time.

 

[VitalDread]

Adams is the only defender we have that I've seen able to have some sort of impact forward. Whenever Cordy has gone forward it's generally in a stopping role.

People talking about Young as a swingman, he's played one good game as a defender. Let's just calm down a little bit on Young. Also from what I remember of his draft highlights package, he's a really ordinary shot for goal as well.

Lewie isn't a swing man, he's been playing in defense the last 8 weeks in the VFL
They plan on him being a defender and NMM as forward

 

[DognBones]

Young has the attributes of a very good (great?) CHB. This is a position that we've been crying out for someone to fill for years. Let's not muddy the waters with this talk of moving him forward. If in several years into the future he has mastered the position we might be a bit more creative a la Harry Taylor.

 

[SayerTheCreator]

I wouldn't be surprised if bulldogs target one of the Mckay brothers in the trade period

Why exactly?

Neither have played an AFL game and they're both contracted past this year...

 

[ScragCity]

Young will play forward

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

They can all do a role though which is what a swingman does, Lever too if we can get him. My point clearly was that we need a genuine good key forward so much more. How many defenders around the league can legitimately play as a gun forward, rather than just a small role up forward. I wouldn't think there'd be many.

I'd say the Reid brothers, Hurley, Westhoff and Hooker can be very influential at both ends.

Think we have the key forward. We just need to get him right mentally, and get him focussed on being a forward, not a ruck/forward. I just would love to see Boyd get a solid half season shot at being just a key forward. No rucking, no injuries and some half decent delivery and see what he can do.

 

[hutchy31]

Jmac and Bevo would have a laugh at the Williams chat, I'm sure. I get that these discussions are hypothetical and designed to get a highly rated KPD who would fill an obvious need for us, but Murphy and Boyd are likely to retire this year. Who do we think sits at HB for the next 8-10 years? Williams is a lock for that imo.

That said, we are in a different era of player movement, but I can't imagine it happening. Getting good free agents in and/or trading for established names for picks is fine. Let players go if they're not approaching best 22 and want to play AFL, and try and get something for them. But trading out good young players and draft picks for someone who we think might be a better player and/or fill a more pressing need is risky at best - culturally as well as from a practical perspective.

 

[ScragCity]

Jmac and Bevo would have a laugh at the Williams chat, I'm sure. I get that these discussions are hypothetical and designed to get a highly rated KPD who would fill an obvious need for us, but Murphy and Boyd are likely to retire this year. Who do we think sits at HB for the next 8-10 years? Williams is a lock for that imo.

That said, we are in a different era of player movement, but I can't imagine it happening. Getting good free agents in and/or trading for established names for picks is fine. Let players go if they're not approaching best 22 and want to play AFL, and try and get something for them. But trading out good young players and draft picks for someone who we think might be a better player and/or fill a more pressing need is risky at best - culturally as well as from a practical perspective.

Im sorry but Williams isnt rated that highly internally

 

[doggies ftw]

Woody locked away til 2020 and probably a bulldog for life. ****ing love this club

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Woody locked away til 2020 and probably a bulldog for life. ******* love this club

Pretty massive - he would have been a free agent next year, so for him to forego that and sign now is absolutely fantastic. Premiership captain and champion clubman. Love him.

 

[Hoges64]

God damn you Tom Boyd!!! When will the carnage end!?!?!?!?!

 

[Pugz89]

Pretty massive - he would have been a free agent next year, so for him to forego that and sign now is absolutely fantastic. Premiership captain and champion clubman. Love him.

He was never gonna leave imo. Bulldog for life indeed. I wonder if the new deal re-structured his pay for next year though freeing up some cap room potentially, similar to what AFC did with Tex.