Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[dogspur]

When a teenager shows himself to be the #1 contested marking forward in the game on half a preseason's preparation, surely that's his spot

Not necessarily, because he could also become the #1 contested marking defender. If you look at the recent flag-winning teams, Rance and McGovern were probably the most important players for Richmond and West Coast respectively.

When he builds a chemistry with Schache and the mids that sees us come from nowhere to be the #1 scoring team in the comp over the back half of the year, why change the central cog of that chemistry?

Because good form doesn't always equate to sustained longevity?
Schache's in pretty good scoring form right now, but I question whether or not he can keep it up next season while still not sticking his marks.

We've got Lewis Young developing beautifully to be the key intercept defender, Trengove ok for the gorillas, Cordy, Wood, Lachlan Young and Khamis for support/depth and reportedly a very good kpd as a possible signing in Keath

You're not exactly making it sound overly reassuring here. Sure Young looks promising, but still some way off elite. Trengove ok for the gorillas? Cordy/L.Young/Khamis for support/depth? Meanwhile clubs like Richmond, West Coast and even Tankbourne have at least 2-3 bonafied elite key-defenders, capable of playing on any kind of opponent.

All in all I reckon it would take a big turn of events next year for Naughton's major value in our team to be deemed by our coaching group as a kpd.

If Bruce comes, I would assume Plan A is having both Bruce and Naughton in the same forward line. That being said, I think we should keep an open mind when it comes to playing Naughton in defence. Let the Chris Grantian legend continue.

 

[glenashley]

Moore injured again! Great player but we need him for more than 12 games a season.

 

[Dogsman16]

Just also in regards to Naughton forward v back. Obviously the largest component of it is regarding team setup. Now that will be dictated by what sort of KPP we can obtain.

As it stands now as much as I'd love him, Bruce would be significantly obstructed by his contract and st kilda's desire to obtain something of value. It would probably have to involve a first rounder.

Whereas Keath at surface value is far more obtainable. Only being offered 2 years and wouldnt cost as much on the trade table.

Naughton's role will be dictated by this offseason recruits as much as anything. And his role and the sacrifice he has made by taking the hardest role has absolutely opened the window for Dale and Schache etc to increase there output. I just don't think we leave this to chance by pushing him back again.

 

[dogspur]

As it stands now as much as I'd love him, Bruce would be significantly obstructed by his contract and st kilda's desire to obtain something of value. It would probably have to involve a first rounder.

You can put your doubts to bed on that one.

They are desperate to obtain high quality midfielders. It wouldn't surprise me if they were prepared to let Bruce go for slight unders if it meant acquiring the currency for say, Brad Crouch.

 

[_M_16_]

Another reason why Naughton is best suited forward, even though yes he is probably way more consistent as a defender. But tell me how many tall forwards are quick and as mobile as Naughton is? His chasing and defensive efforts are second to none. Find me another key tall his height that is the same. Given the modern game plan is to create pressure and lock it in. You're practically one less player with a lumbering tall that some teams have, some even have a couple of Lumbering forwards. Naughton suits the modern style well and takes pressure off other players to cover for someone else.

 

[Dogsman16]

If Bruce was brought in, Schache as much as anyone would be the one under the gun. If we were to only play 2 tall forwards though.

Schache's game style is suited to someone who is 15cm shorter. Granted his goal output is good and obviously should be the major factor.

But if goal output was the only factor in selection Josh Jenkins would never be dropped. Things like pressure, tackling, score involvements, physicality, contested marking, which opponent you draw, being versatile have to come into play. And i'd wager/argue Naughton is more effective in every single one of those aspects.

Put it on Joshs chest 40m out continually then good times are to be had. This never happens in a finals like environment though.

That being said I'd like to play 3 tall forwards and Josh would probably kick 50 if hes getting zilch attention which would happen with Naughton/Bruce combo.

 

[TBOW]

Another reason why Naughton is best suited forward, even though yes he is probably way more consistent as a defender. But tell me how many tall forwards are quick and as mobile as Naughton is? His chasing and defensive efforts are second to none. Find me another key tall his height that is the same. Given the modern game plan is to create pressure and lock it in. You're practically one less player with a lumbering tall that some teams have, some even have a couple of Lumbering forwards. Naughton suits the modern style well and takes pressure off other players to cover for someone else.

My thoughts exactly. His recovery and second efforts are phenomenal. Worth so much more in offence.

That play to keep the ball in along the boundary against Adelaide

 

[Dogsman16]

Also not suggesting we put him up trade him, but GC would be mental if they didnt make a serious play for Mitch Wallis. Absolutely the type they need.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Doesn't matter, if we get Bruce, we don't need Naughton up forward, and he's more than capable of playing defence at an elite level.

Bruce coming to us is less than 20% too.
Surely there are better options.
Always wary of 3rd club players. We are aren’t hawthorn either

 

[Mofra]

Also not suggesting we put him up trade him, but GC would be mental if they didnt make a serious play for Mitch Wallis. Absolutely the type they need.

They did last year.

 

[Dogsman16]

They did last year.

Should go again. Jong too.

 

[ErnieSigley]

They are. The question isn't how good our best forward is, though, it's how good we are as a team.

If we get someone like Bruce, I'm very confident our best team will have Naughton in defence. The alternatives are not playing Bruce, trying to make Naughton and Bruce coexist and persisting with Trengove/Cordy/Young down back, or pushing Bruce to defence, where he's shown nothing for two clubs.

We can't get too attached to Naughton playing a particular position. He's a gun wherever we put him - he plays in the position that maximises our chances of winning a premiership. Depending on the outcome of this off-season, there's a very real possibility that that's down back.

Yes they are
Naughton ceiling as a forward is far from it’s peak given he is 19 and hasn’t done a pre season there and it’s a ceiling that will overshoot Bruce easily past present or future.

 

[VitalDread]

Side note: Naughton kicked 30.27 this year with no forward pre-season

 

[Dogsman16]

Side note: Naughton kicked 30.27 this year with no forward pre-season

Taking the number 1 defender every minute of every game also.

 

[VitalDread]

Declan Keilty is someone i would look at for a rookie lifeline
Would be a great back up defender in our system
Similar defensive traits like Lewy

 

[ossie_21]

Should go again. Jong too.

Honeychurch too

 

[mattwa]

Doesn't matter, if we get Bruce, we don't need Naughton up forward, and he's more than capable of playing defence at an elite level.

We 100% need Aaron forward regardless of bruce

 

[BEaston]

Bruce is great aerially. His midfield let’s him down.

Both Bruce and Naughton are top 5 contested marks in the comp.

I'm aware. Not saying he's not great, but compared to Naughton he's not as good IMO.

 

[Dogsman16]

I'm aware. Not saying he's not great, but compared to Naughton he's not as good IMO.

No one is good as Naughton. Things he is doing as a 19 year old kid is borderline insane.

 

[dogspur]

We 100% need Aaron forward regardless of bruce

12 months ago, it was we 100% need Aaron back.

I'm just saying it's worth keeping an open mind. Sure, Naughton looks exciting up forward, but there's still a chance we work better as a team with him in defence and Bruce up forward.

 

[mattwa]

Our forwardline is humming along with two young KPF but we are talking about dropping 1 to get Bruce in and move the other back. For a year together there output is off the charts. Madness to suggest tinkering with this

 

[dogspur]

Our forwardline is humming along with two young KPF but we are talking about dropping 1 to get Bruce in and move the other back. For a year together there output is off the charts. Madness to suggest tinkering with this

More like 6 weeks.

 

[Dogsman16]

Our forwardline is humming along with two young KPF but we are talking about dropping 1 to get Bruce in and move the other back. For a year together there output is off the charts. Madness to suggest tinkering with this

Can’t we just play all 3 in the forward line and catch everything .

 

[BEaston]

No one is good as Naughton. Things he is doing as a 19 year old kid is borderline insane.

Right. So back to my original post, for what Bruce would lack aerially compared to Naughton, he'd make up for in accuracy. Glad we cleared that up.

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

At Naughton's age Bruce had taken 7 contested marks that season. Moving Naughton back to fit in Bruce is short sighted to the extreme. In 4 years time Bruce will be on the wrong side of 30 while Naughton probably won't have even reached his peak yet. I'd much rather have Naughton learning how to dominant games up forward over those 4 years then have him in defence and then have a key forward problem all over again. Now if we're arguing if Bruce pushes Schache out of the side, or if Naughton is unhappy forward and we're worried it'll affect his football then I can see the debate. And I do want Bruce in our side btw, but Naughton shouldn't be going back.

As for the idea that we need Naughton in defence, I'll just point out that Richmond's defence is looking as good as ever without Rance. The difference between above average and elite defenders is not nearly as important as that distinction is with forwards.