I haven’t seen him play but I did see a post along the lines of “Williams game shows why WCE were chasing Sweet” which is enough to have me not excited.
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Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)
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All very good points. I honestly feel like if he continues to play well and is given the responsibility of number 1 ruck he’ll re-sign
- Sep 22, 2008
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Yeah I agree, I’m not overly concerned about his signature I think he’ll stay. Like you said he should be happy with first ruck all year and If he doesn’t have the sole responsibility of first ruck all year it means he’s underperforming so his options will be limited to leave anyway.
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LOL
Defender and a Ruckman please
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Pokemon is Life
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You are going to get an inside mid and half back flanker and like it.
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We will have a quiet offseason. If we are lucky we will get a couple of B graders from the Hawks in their late twenties.
BulldogMuscle
Honk For The Dogs
Two defenders, can't rely on Keath anymore with these soft tissue injuries.
Back up ruck for English
A forward line coach who can coach
BulldogMuscle
Honk For The Dogs
Would you take Sicily if you could get him?
Some important list changes need to be made this off-season. We may have to sacrifice some players to rebalance our list. Our current list can’t win a flag. Last year was an exceptional effort and things went our way, Martin/English combo to start the year, Bruce/Naughton combo up forward, midfield domination and a number of players peaking into the form of their careers.
We clearly need a key defender that is ready to go right now. We also need to draft a young key defender not another hybrid third tall type.
We need ruck depth and someone to swap between ruck forward with English unless Bruce can do that role when he returns. Long term that’s likely to be Darcy and the issue will be finding the right structure to fit in a ruck/forward whilst trying to play Naughton, Bruce and JUH.
We need some more natural forwards in our front half, apart from Weightman and JUH in our current starting forward line no others are natural forwards or drafted as forwards and then in the VFL we have Bedendo as the only natural forward.
Our midfield is strong and bats very deep but they all command big $$ we let Lipinski go last year, west and Garcia are in the VFL and for some reason we keep drafting VFL mids like Scott and McComb. Do we really need 6 mids that would start in the centre bounce in every other team in the league? This contributes to our forward line being stacked with non-forwards.
Our backline is also too offensive and lacks a defensive edge. I do like the look of both Raak and Cleary in the VFL they look like they can defend and are neat by foot. Most teams have that one offensive backline player who can’t defend well we seem to go with 3.
Our list is heavy on offensive half backs and midfielders. It is also heavy on players that are past it or have shown they aren’t up to it. We tend to hang on to players a lot longer than other teams and the coaching seems to be harder on our better players whilst accepting of lower standard players mediocrity.
We clearly need a key defender that is ready to go right now. We also need to draft a young key defender not another hybrid third tall type.
We need ruck depth and someone to swap between ruck forward with English unless Bruce can do that role when he returns. Long term that’s likely to be Darcy and the issue will be finding the right structure to fit in a ruck/forward whilst trying to play Naughton, Bruce and JUH.
We need some more natural forwards in our front half, apart from Weightman and JUH in our current starting forward line no others are natural forwards or drafted as forwards and then in the VFL we have Bedendo as the only natural forward.
Our midfield is strong and bats very deep but they all command big $$ we let Lipinski go last year, west and Garcia are in the VFL and for some reason we keep drafting VFL mids like Scott and McComb. Do we really need 6 mids that would start in the centre bounce in every other team in the league? This contributes to our forward line being stacked with non-forwards.
Our backline is also too offensive and lacks a defensive edge. I do like the look of both Raak and Cleary in the VFL they look like they can defend and are neat by foot. Most teams have that one offensive backline player who can’t defend well we seem to go with 3.
Our list is heavy on offensive half backs and midfielders. It is also heavy on players that are past it or have shown they aren’t up to it. We tend to hang on to players a lot longer than other teams and the coaching seems to be harder on our better players whilst accepting of lower standard players mediocrity.
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This is the most frustrating part. Players show they clearly aren't up to it so we go and delist/rerookie them. Why we keep players like Hayes around for extra time makes no sense
Even if there's a 2% chance the late rookie pick makes it, it's worth a crack for one year in a position of need rather than someone who has proven they will never get there and plays a position we have 15 better players in
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Part of me feels like we need a mini rebuild
All our salary cap are in mids that get exhausted too quickly
All our salary cap are in mids that get exhausted too quickly
BulldogMuscle
Honk For The Dogs
I wouldn't say re-build but we do need to shuffle the cards and go all in on using this years picks to target needs, as well as possibly moving on some of these 're-sign' guys to help with cap room.
I don’t think Schache or Cordy would still be on another clubs list.
No club would have given Martin another year.
We have Sweet two years but refuse to play him.
McComb was a nothing selection. We drafted Scott as a mid and now are trying to make him a forward/defender.
We continue to draft third tall defender types Khamis, Raak etc then we bring in O’Brien in the same position.
I think you will find it is more of a financial decision based around the fact we need to keep blokes like Daniel macre Dunkley and smith
The issue we have now around key positions players from a list management point of view is our defensive half. Because next year we will have Naughton, Bruce, JUH and Darcy to choose from up forward.
Down back though if we move on Schache and Cordy which to be honest we should. We are left with keath injuries are becoming common, Gardner jury is massively still out, O’Brien is a third tall at first. Which means we need to trade in a best 22 key back, get a depth key back and draft a key back. Or hang on to one of Cordy or Schache.
Down back though if we move on Schache and Cordy which to be honest we should. We are left with keath injuries are becoming common, Gardner jury is massively still out, O’Brien is a third tall at first. Which means we need to trade in a best 22 key back, get a depth key back and draft a key back. Or hang on to one of Cordy or Schache.
Do we though? Would we be that worse of a team if we let say Dunkley and dale go and used that money on a best 22 key back and a ruck/forward?
Or financially a draftee would cost similar to these rookie blokes that aren’t up to it. And the draftee has scope to improve.
The silver lining of being terrible this year is when several players leave as FA we can hopefully play some funny buggers and engineer a few decent first round picks.
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We may get one or two reasonable players in the National Draft (if we keep our picks) but with all the big names to be re-signed on big contracts there may be nothing left over to buy a player of need.
We will have to be ruthless with our list management if we are to attract such a player.
We will have to be ruthless with our list management if we are to attract such a player.
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Dale is the only one of value who may leave and is a free agent. The others are either staying (Daniel) or wouldn't net us much for various reasons (JJ, Wallis, McLean, Cordy). Wouldn't mind a soft reset where we let Dunkley walk, trade our future 1st into this year, and hit the draft hard like Melbourne did
Our list balance is a mess atm. Too many players the coach doesn’t want to play and too much redundancy in positions where it isn’t needed.
Roarke, JJ, McLean, West, Garcia, Scott, McComb, Vandermeer, McNeil & Wallis - all similar sized half forward/midfield options for a team that already has too many first choice midfielders spilling out on to the flanks and wings. We don’t need all of them. Too much redundancy.
Cleary, Khamis, Raak, Parker & Butler - all half back/non-KPP types. I get that they play different defensive roles, but none of them are KPPs at AFL level. Why five general defenders, when we already have Dale, Richards, Duryea, Crozier and Williams (and Daniel as a smaller HB and O’Brien & Cordy as undersized KPPs)?
All in all, that’s a third of the list on fringe half forwards and half backs, only 3-4 of which are in the team at any given time. At least 4-5 of the above should be fringe or developing KPPs/ruckmen or genuine forwards.
Roarke, JJ, McLean, West, Garcia, Scott, McComb, Vandermeer, McNeil & Wallis - all similar sized half forward/midfield options for a team that already has too many first choice midfielders spilling out on to the flanks and wings. We don’t need all of them. Too much redundancy.
Cleary, Khamis, Raak, Parker & Butler - all half back/non-KPP types. I get that they play different defensive roles, but none of them are KPPs at AFL level. Why five general defenders, when we already have Dale, Richards, Duryea, Crozier and Williams (and Daniel as a smaller HB and O’Brien & Cordy as undersized KPPs)?
All in all, that’s a third of the list on fringe half forwards and half backs, only 3-4 of which are in the team at any given time. At least 4-5 of the above should be fringe or developing KPPs/ruckmen or genuine forwards.
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- Sep 22, 2008
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Think back to the Willy days, at any game you’d have possibly 4 tall forwards trying to play together in the one side, same down back. As you knew most wouldn’t make it you keep drafting them - take a look at Footscray and we can’t even field a proper team! Even the talls out there are only vfl listed anyway. How have we allowed this to happen? Probably stems down to the angry midget running the club I suppose
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Just look at how much of the cap is tied up in midfielders.
Liberatore
Treloar
Macrae
Hunter
Bontempelli
Dunkley
Smith
That's 7 players who would all be pulling at least above average wages, all playing in the centre of the ground. How many other clubs have this much of their cap concentrated in their midfield? Just look at Melbourne - Oliver and Petracca would be on crazy high wages, but after them it's Viney, Harmes, Jordon, Langdon, Sparrow, etc. Of those extras, I imagine it's only Viney and Langdon pulling in good wages, with the rest on average or below.
I am more than happy to be paying a good chunk of cap to retain Treloar, Macrae, Bont and Smith as our core for the next few years, but there's no reason we should be paying high salaries to Libba, Hunter and Dunkley moving forward. Libba is probably on lower than the others as it is, is getting less CBAs than last year, and I imagine his next contract drops considerably, but from a list management perspective it's very hard to justify paying Dunkley the big money after this year.
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I'd be 100% in favour of moving Dunkley on and making a play for Sicily from the Hawks. He's a RFA so no draft cost, and is one of the strongest 1 on 1 defenders in the competition, in addition to being a strong rebounder. Sicily has a history of absolutely monstering some of the better key forwards despite being "undersized" for a KPD, and I honestly think would partner up well with Gardner + Keath for the next few years.
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