Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dog 36]

With regards to players like Liam Henry there is a high risk high reward.

I look at players like Ash Johnson (Pies) and Marlion Pickett

50

Marlion Pickett

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

5.5

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

1.5

4star

D

11.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

1.3

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.6

4star

(Tiggers) and the like where both were a risk but the recruiters backed their clubs systems and structure to deal with any issues that may have turned other clubs off taken them.

I think sometimes we go for vanilla type players on the Rookie list or late draft picks instead of taking a risk, going in with our eyes wide open and backing the clubs system to get the high reward.

 

[LittleG]

I would rather look at Lohmann from the Lions than Henry from Freo.

A super fast pressure small must be out there somewhere that we can target. We brought in Weightman and Clarke as small forwards but pressure and crumbing don’t appear their best attributes. We really need to find another pressure forward.

 

[Mojorisin]

With regards to players like Liam Henry there is a high risk high reward.

I look at players like Ash Johnson (Pies) and Marlion Pickett (Tiggers) and the like where both were a risk but the recruiters backed their clubs systems and structure to deal with any issues that may have turned other clubs off taken them.

I think sometimes we go for vanilla type players on the Rookie list or late draft picks instead of taking a risk, going in with our eyes wide open and backing the clubs system to get the high reward.

My issues with Henry aren't off field. His way to soft to be a small forward and can only get the easy ball which there is non in the forward line especially ours. His also to low accumulation on the wing and isn't even damaging for the touches he does get.

 

[Mofra]

My issues with Henry aren't off field. His way to soft to be a small forward and can only get the easy ball which there is non in the forward line especially ours. His also to low accumulation on the wing and isn't even damaging for the touches he does get.

He's known because he was drafted high.
Every time I've seen him he's been underwhelming

 

[LittleG]

McKay?

We really need a better KPD and it appears that Naughton isn’t going back. Bruce isn’t good enough. Gardner is better but out of form. Keath on his last legs.

Ballard from GC would be a dream get. We would have to overpay in salary and both of our first rounders…. I think it would be worth it, IF they throw in Flanders as well. Appears a long term solution for a position that we haven’t found an answer for, aside from LJones who is on his last contract.

 

[Doggies_13]

We need a decent list overhaul. We just don’t have that great a list we have a strong/solid 18-21 when everyone is fit but a massively lack of depth.

Talented but not ready/too early to tell
Darcy
Busslinger
Clarke
Gallagher
JOD
A Jones
Bedendo

May make it but role player at best
Garcia
Cleary
Poulter
VDM
West
Khamis
McNiel
Sweet

Not good enough/past it
Bruce
TOB
McComb
McLean
R smith
Raak
Hannan
Crozier

That’s 8 genuinely not up to it or past it either through ability, age or injuries. Then 8 that may still make it but are unlikely to be anything better that in the 20-26 player bracket.

That 18-21 strong/solid players includes:
Duryea - probably last year
Gardner - role player limited upside
Scott - role player limited up side
Keath - probably last year
Baker - role player limited upside

It’s fine to have role players on the list and in the team/next player in but we have 16 players either past it/not good enough/or scope of improvement limited to be a role player. That’s is way too many in comparison to only 7 with talent and scope to develop. Then add the 5 role players that are probably best 22 atm that. Brings us up to having a list of 21 role players/past it players.

If you compared the top 14-15 put on the park by each team each week we probably have the most talented list of 14-15 problem is we are probably bottom 6 for the next 10 in comparison to other teams and that’s our issue.

 

[Mojorisin]

We need a decent list overhaul. We just don’t have that great a list we have a strong/solid 18-21 when everyone is fit but a massively lack of depth.

Talented but not ready/too early to tell
Darcy
Busslinger
Clarke
Gallagher
JOD
A Jones
Bedendo

May make it but role player at best
Garcia
Cleary
Poulter
VDM
West
Khamis
McNiel
Sweet

Not good enough/past it
Bruce
TOB
McComb
McLean
R smith
Raak
Hannan
Crozier

That’s 8 genuinely not up to it or past it either through ability, age or injuries. Then 8 that may still make it but are unlikely to be anything better that in the 20-26 player bracket.

That 18-21 strong/solid players includes:
Duryea - probably last year
Gardner - role player limited upside
Scott - role player limited up side
Keath - probably last year
Baker - role player limited upside

It’s fine to have role players on the list and in the team/next player in but we have 16 players either past it/not good enough/or scope of improvement limited to be a role player. That’s is way too many in comparison to only 7 with talent and scope to develop. Then add the 5 role players that are probably best 22 atm that. Brings us up to having a list of 21 role players/past it players.

If you compared the top 14-15 put on the park by each team each week we probably have the most talented list of 14-15 problem is we are probably bottom 6 for the next 10 in comparison to other teams and that’s our issue.

I disagree with a few places on the list but like the concept.
Raak is a cat B so should get more leeway for the fact he costs us nothing. His also young enough I'd be comfortable giving him another season.

Bruce was never a good defender but looks like his in pre acl shape so would try him forward again before chucking him out (he was in career best form pre acl)

I'd also move both cleary and poulter up to too early to tell. I think poulter needs a good preseason and a defined role. Cleary should've been in the seniors a month ago rather then playing an extra tall and if so we would have a better idea of what he could contribute.

 

[LittleG]

We need a decent list overhaul. We just don’t have that great a list we have a strong/solid 18-21 when everyone is fit but a massively lack of depth.

Talented but not ready/too early to tell
Darcy
Busslinger
Clarke
Gallagher
JOD
A Jones
Bedendo

May make it but role player at best
Garcia
Cleary
Poulter
VDM
West
Khamis
McNiel
Sweet

Not good enough/past it
Bruce
TOB
McComb
McLean
R smith
Raak
Hannan
Crozier

That’s 8 genuinely not up to it or past it either through ability, age or injuries. Then 8 that may still make it but are unlikely to be anything better that in the 20-26 player bracket.

That 18-21 strong/solid players includes:
Duryea - probably last year
Gardner - role player limited upside
Scott - role player limited up side
Keath - probably last year
Baker - role player limited upside

It’s fine to have role players on the list and in the team/next player in but we have 16 players either past it/not good enough/or scope of improvement limited to be a role player. That’s is way too many in comparison to only 7 with talent and scope to develop. Then add the 5 role players that are probably best 22 atm that. Brings us up to having a list of 21 role players/past it players.

If you compared the top 14-15 put on the park by each team each week we probably have the most talented list of 14-15 problem is we are probably bottom 6 for the next 10 in comparison to other teams and that’s our issue.

The problem with a big list turnover is that we won’t be replacing them with good players. It will just be a lot of potential potential.

When the picks get beyond 40, it’s just a lottery and adding so many late picks, will severely weaken our VFL team and thus make developing any of them harder.

The other option is that the club invest more money into our VFL team. Have experienced players there to help the younger ones grow and have their salaries outside the AFL cap. I mean a really stacked list and have a team with only a few holes for our Younger AFL players to take.

 

[Doggies_13]

I disagree with a few places on the list but like the concept.
Raak is a cat B so should get more leeway for the fact he costs us nothing. His also young enough I'd be comfortable giving him another season.

Bruce was never a good defender but looks like his in pre acl shape so would try him forward again before chucking him out (he was in career best form pre acl)

I'd also move both cleary and poulter up to too early to tell. I think poulter needs a good preseason and a defined role. Cleary should've been in the seniors a month ago rather than playing an extra tall and if so we would have a better idea of what he could contribute.

Some can drop into other categories but still has roughly half our list being role players at best.

The problem with a big list turnover is that we won’t be replacing them with good players. It will just be a lot of potential potential.

When the picks get beyond 40, it’s just a lottery and adding so many late picks, will severely weaken our VFL team and thus make developing any of them harder.

The other option is that the club invest more money into our VFL team. Have experienced players there to help the younger ones grow and have their salaries outside the AFL cap. I mean a really stacked list and have a team with only a few holes for our Younger AFL players to take.

We definitely can’t do it all in an off season to fix this is a 3 off season exercise.

The last couple of years have made it worse for us as we lost guys who would have been probably in our best 25 right now (Dunkley, young, lipinski)

But the constant keeping players too long has placed us in this position.

 

[Dogs Rule]

View attachment 1705074

So we get 1 and Darcy for Naughton, English and 13?

Yeah, right....

 

[Dogs Rule]

Some can drop into other categories but still has roughly half our list being role players at best.


We definitely can’t do it all in an off season to fix this is a 3 off season exercise.

The last couple of years have made it worse for us as we lost guys who would have been probably in our best 25 right now (Dunkley, young, lipinski)

But the constant keeping players too long has placed us in this position.

Dunkley left by choice. Lipinski and Young were screwed around by the coach.

 

[adogsfan5]

McKay?

We really need a better KPD and it appears that Naughton isn’t going back. Bruce isn’t good enough. Gardner is better but out of form. Keath on his last legs.

Ballard from GC would be a dream get. We would have to overpay in salary and both of our first rounders…. I think it would be worth it, IF they throw in Flanders as well. Appears a long term solution for a position that we haven’t found an answer for, aside from LJones who is on his last contract.

Suddenly I think we need a mckay type now. Our backline is cooked.
Just don’t think we have the coin that he’d get at another club.
Essendon will throw stupid cash and from all reports last night, port are leading the charge (also no idea how they have the cash).

 

[VitalDread]

Going to be wild when after the bye we will likely re-sign TOB and Hannan

 

[Doggies_13]

Dunkley left by choice. Lipinski and Young were screwed around by the coach.

For whatever reason we lost players, most that we have lost in the last 2 off seasons have been in that top 26 on the list players.

Now some chose to leave some we pushed out. Whatever the reasons it’s left us short on depth.

Dunkley
Hunter
Lipinski
Young
Schache
Cordy

Clearly Cordy and Schache weren’t going to improve on output but would they be better options than some players we currently have. I think yes

 

[Mojorisin]

Going to be wild when after the bye we will likely re-sign TOB and Hannan

I will die a little inside.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Going to be wild when after the bye we will likely re-sign TOB and Hannan

So what percentage of members are needed to call an emergency AGM???

 

[Doggy]

So what percentage of members are needed to call an emergency AGM???

Meh. As much as most of us want change there isn't any coming

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Meh. As much as most of us want change there isn't any coming

If TOB and Hannan get contract extensions I want a Royal commission into our list management

 

[Doggy]

If TOB and Hannan get contract extensions I want a Royal commission into our list management

And you won't get it

Besides... where are all of the options?

 

[TedDougChris]

Going to be wild when after the bye we will likely re-sign TOB and Hannan

 

[Dogs Rule]

For whatever reason we lost players, most that we have lost in the last 2 off seasons have been in that top 26 on the list players.

Now some chose to leave some we pushed out. Whatever the reasons it’s left us short on depth.

Dunkley
Hunter
Lipinski
Young
Schache
Cordy

Clearly Cordy and Schache weren’t going to improve on output but would they be better options than some players we currently have. I think yes

Selection. D***ing around with selection. Zero selection integrity so players get sick of it and leave.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Going to be wild when after the bye we will likely re-sign TOB and Hannan

Imagine the scenes.

Sammy P out there giving it the whole:

"Mitch and Tim are critical to our success and we see both of them as an important part of our future. We've also signed Robbie McComb to a seven year extension."

 

[Here we go dogs]

I would rather look at Lohmann from the Lions than Henry from Freo.

A super fast pressure small must be out there somewhere that we can target. We brought in Weightman and Clarke as small forwards but pressure and crumbing don’t appear their best attributes. We really need to find another pressure forward.

Lohman’s pressure is pretty good, but his not exactly a small (his 185cm). And he definitely doesn’t play small, he plays similar to weightman. Think he ends up being more a high half forward or wingman. His field kicking is very average though.

I still think he could be a reasonable pick up as that high half forward, but we’d want another genuine crumbing forward.

 

[Here we go dogs]

I’ll be furious if we pick up McKay. He will get absolutely burnt in our system for pace when we leave so much space for defenders.

Also his foot skills are probably worse than Gardiner‘s. So I’d expect more unforced turn overs that lead to goals.

 

[Here we go dogs]

We need a decent list overhaul. We just don’t have that great a list we have a strong/solid 18-21 when everyone is fit but a massively lack of depth.

Talented but not ready/too early to tell
Darcy
Busslinger
Clarke
Gallagher
JOD
A Jones
Bedendo

May make it but role player at best
Garcia
Cleary
Poulter
VDM
West
Khamis
McNiel
Sweet

Not good enough/past it
Bruce
TOB
McComb
McLean
R smith
Raak
Hannan
Crozier

That’s 8 genuinely not up to it or past it either through ability, age or injuries. Then 8 that may still make it but are unlikely to be anything better that in the 20-26 player bracket.

That 18-21 strong/solid players includes:
Duryea - probably last year
Gardner - role player limited upside
Scott - role player limited up side
Keath - probably last year
Baker - role player limited upside

It’s fine to have role players on the list and in the team/next player in but we have 16 players either past it/not good enough/or scope of improvement limited to be a role player. That’s is way too many in comparison to only 7 with talent and scope to develop. Then add the 5 role players that are probably best 22 atm that. Brings us up to having a list of 21 role players/past it players.

If you compared the top 14-15 put on the park by each team each week we probably have the most talented list of 14-15 problem is we are probably bottom 6 for the next 10 in comparison to other teams and that’s our issue.

Really good assessment. I would probably keep Bruce though. I think he can contribute up forward.