Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Tough ask when our last five years of drafting has been:
8x gen forward (Scott, McNeil, Vandermeer, Weightman, Cavarra, Jones, Clarke, Bedendo) - acknowledge many of these have played different roles but I would say this is the primary position of most of them
6x mid (Garcia, West, McComb, Smith, Hayes, Parker)
4x gen defender (Butler, Cleary, Gallagher, Young)
2x key forward (JUH, Darcy)
1x key defender (Busslinger)
1x ruck (Sweet)

Earliest we've taken a non-key defender in the last five years is pick 39 (Gallagher) with no young talent coming through trade either.

Does really paint a picture of how off our good pick to middling pick ratio has been over the past five years too. It's a big part of the reason I'm not fond of trading 2+ (let's be honest, there's too much smoke for it not to be the '+') picks for one high pick.

 

[doggiesin08]

Tough ask when our last five years of drafting has been:
8x gen forward (Scott, McNeil, Vandermeer, Weightman, Cavarra, Jones, Clarke, Bedendo) - acknowledge many of these have played different roles but I would say this is the primary position of most of them
6x mid (Garcia, West, McComb, Smith, Hayes, Parker)
4x gen defender (Butler, Cleary, Gallagher, Young)
2x key forward (JUH, Darcy)
1x key defender (Busslinger)
1x ruck (Sweet)

Earliest we've taken a non-key defender in the last five years is pick 39 (Gallagher) with no young talent coming through trade either.

Pretty sure VDM was a small defender and Bedendo was playing backline in U18s (very short COVID season)

 

[Golden_6]

The problem isn't Duryea re-signing, the problem is that nobody underneath him is making a clear case for replacing him.

I’m not a fan of VDM but he should be given a full preseason training as a small defender in a last ditch attempt to save his career.

Lockdown smaller types should be easier to find. There would be a bunch of guys at lower league levels that are good defensively and solid offensively but don’t get on the radar of clubs because they don’t stand out as individual players.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Pretty sure VDM was a small defender and Bedendo was playing backline in U18s (very short COVID season)

Yep fair call re: VDM - have updated the post.

The draft profiles I can find for Bedendo mention him playing as a medium forward which is what I recall also.

 

[doggies ftw]

Tough ask when our last five years of drafting has been:
8x gen forward (Scott, McNeil, Vandermeer, Weightman, Cavarra, Jones, Clarke, Bedendo) - acknowledge many of these have played different roles but I would say this is the primary position of most of them
6x mid (Garcia, West, McComb, Smith, Hayes, Parker)
4x gen defender (Butler, Cleary, Gallagher, Young)
2x key forward (JUH, Darcy)
1x key defender (Busslinger)
1x ruck (Sweet)

Earliest we've taken a non-key defender in the last five years is pick 39 (Gallagher) with no young talent coming through trade either.

It’s not really a position you spend high picks on generally though to be fair, and we did use a first rounder the year before on Richards. I feel most of the Doc types are drafted as mids etc.

I get the need for a defensive minded small in the modern game, but they have to actually be really good at what they do to warrant a spot. Current Doc is too slow and not good enough defensively to warrant a spot anymore personally I feel we’d be better off playing an extra runner.

 

[doggies ftw]

Ports future first on the table, I’d be keen to get our hands on that if we don’t get 4. Would they take 17 as a straight swap?

Could see a few teams going past them next year and that ending up around pick 10-12

 

[Doggy]

Ports future first on the table, I’d be keen to get our hands on that if we don’t get 4. Would they take 17 as a straight swap?

Could see a few teams going past them next year and that ending up around pick 10-12

No chance they do that

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

It’s not really a position you spend high picks on generally though to be fair, and we did use a first rounder the year before on Richards. I feel most of the Doc types are drafted as mids etc.

I get the need for a defensive minded small in the modern game, but they have to actually be really good at what they do to warrant a spot. Current Doc is too slow and not good enough defensively to warrant a spot anymore personally I feel we’d be better off playing an extra runner.

I don't think you need a super defensive small defender in the modern game, though. What you need is a couple of balanced small-medium defenders who can hurt both ways - and these players definitely go high.

Currently, Richards is our most balanced defender, but is far stronger in the air than he is at ground level. He still very much gets burned by the crafty, agile smalls because it's just not the strength of his game (and it hurts us offensively to have him focused on a goal kicking threat). Doc is more able to take these guys for a full game, but yes, he is in decline. We need another that can do both to some extent and it is hard to find those guys in the third round and beyond.

Another thing, I'm not saying we should be spending "high" picks. But in the last five years having two guys taken in the late 30s and then the 50s+ in a crucial part of the ground (particularly for our game style) is not enough. 20-35 is not "high," but it's a range where you find really strong role players. These are the picks we have been lacking and everyone seems to just be okay with giving them up this year...but that's another story.

To your last point: another runner with Dale and JJ and our current midfield's attempts at "defence" would be asking for the opponent to kick 300 points a game.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Ports future first on the table, I’d be keen to get our hands on that if we don’t get 4. Would they take 17 as a straight swap?

Could see a few teams going past them next year and that ending up around pick 10-12

No. They don't want a straight swap. They want to split that pick up into multiple picks. To help them land their few trade targets.

 

[Zgope1]

I’d more easily come around to a future 1st being involved in a GC upgrade if we got a young midfielder from them. They may have too many guys to rotate there long term

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Yep fair call re: VDM - have updated the post.

The draft profiles I can find for Bedendo mention him playing as a medium forward which is what I recall also.

There were plans for Bedendo to play in defence in 2020 but that didn't happen for obvious reasons.

 

[doggies ftw]

I’d more easily come around to a future 1st being involved in a GC upgrade if we got a young midfielder from them. They may have too many guys to rotate there long term

Yeah agreed, F2 & a player for F1 I could probably get around. With a list of 50 odd there’s gotta be a few slipping through the cracks we like.

I’m still keen on Hollands on the chance he finds his best with us but I mean the early signs aren’t promising.

 

[doggies ftw]

I don't think you need a super defensive small defender in the modern game, though. What you need is a couple of balanced small-medium defenders who can hurt both ways - and these players definitely go high.

Currently, Richards is our most balanced defender, but is far stronger in the air than he is at ground level. He still very much gets burned by the crafty, agile smalls because it's just not the strength of his game (and it hurts us offensively to have him focused on a goal kicking threat). Doc is more able to take these guys for a full game, but yes, he is in decline. We need another that can do both to some extent and it is hard to find those guys in the third round and beyond.

Another thing, I'm not saying we should be spending "high" picks. But in the last five years having two guys taken in the late 30s and then the 50s+ in a crucial part of the ground (particularly for our game style) is not enough. 20-35 is not "high," but it's a range where you find really strong role players. These are the picks we have been lacking and everyone seems to just be okay with giving them up this year...but that's another story.

To your last point: another runner with Dale and JJ and our current midfield's attempts at "defence" would be asking for the opponent to kick 300 points a game.

I agree we have to spend there at some point, I can see the reasoning in not focusing there recently though with Red & 2x AAs, & Croz & Williams over the past 3-4 years it hasn’t been a position of need. Even when we picked up Cleary there was calls on here of “another HBF great” - Obviously a lot has changed in that group though so yeah it needs to become a priority now.

On my last point, another runner over Doc. Wouldn’t change anything defensively for us, he was an absolute liability who had bags kicked on him 4-5 times this year.

 

[doggies ftw]

No. They don't want a straight swap. They want to split that pick up into multiple picks. To help them land their few trade targets.

They can still use 17 in other downgrades if they wish though, I feel 17 is one of the better options they’d have and is probably better than 2x 2nd rounders. Could even throw in Sweet too, 17 & Sweet for F1 would be a pretty good result for both teams IMO.

We could then use a F1 to trade back in after a Croft bid and take ie 10, Croft & ~13-15. Or just take 10 & Croft & hold 2x F1s again

 

[Golden_6]

Yeah agreed, F2 & a player for F1 I could probably get around. With a list of 50 odd there’s gotta be a few slipping through the cracks we like.

I’m still keen on Hollands on the chance he finds his best with us but I mean the early signs aren’t promising.

I’d be looking at Caleb Graham as a steak knives throw in from the GC as well.

They have to cut their list significantly at the end of 2024. They might look to move on a lot of depth this off season.

 

[weltschmerz]

I’d be looking at Caleb Graham as a steak knives throw in from the GC as well.

They have to cut their list significantly at the end of 2024. They might look to move on a lot of depth this off season.

Alex Davies could also be the goods.

 

[Mofra]

Pretty like for like Stephens replacement.

Not to me. Jordan is much more contested and a much worse kick.

I'm actually glad we weren't seriously in the hunt for either of them.

 

[Mofra]

Pretty sure VDM was a small defender and Bedendo was playing backline in U18s (very short COVID season)

Gallagher was shifted back to a smaller rebounding defender role last year too prior to getting drafted.

 

[dergert]

SEN saying Caleb Graham

46

Caleb Graham

Age

24

Ht

194cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

5.5

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.5

4star

T

1.0

3star

MG

63.0

1star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

63.0

1star

D

10.0

3star

K

5.5

3star

HB

4.5

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

1.0

3star

MG

63.0

1star

to Brisbane.

Makes sense since he is a qlder. Cross him off the list.

 

[flipper83]

Ports future first on the table, I’d be keen to get our hands on that if we don’t get 4. Would they take 17 as a straight swap?

Could see a few teams going past them next year and that ending up around pick 10-12

The suggestion is that they need to use it for capital to get their trades done. Would be nice if we could sort out a 3 team trade with port and Geelong to use 10 and 17 and 36 or future second rounder to get Geelong's first and ports future first

 

[Golden_6]

SEN saying Caleb Graham to Brisbane.

Makes sense since he is a qlder. Cross him off the list.

Doesn’t make sense from a football perspective. Just moves to the Lions as depth as well.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Doesn’t make sense from a football perspective. Just moves to the Lions as depth as well.

Unless Doedee told lions he is not joining them

 

[dergert]

Doesn’t make sense from a football perspective. Just moves to the Lions as depth as well.

They're thin down back aren't they?

They've got Payne and Andrews, daylight then Gardner daylight then Joyce.

Still more than us

 

[Golden_6]

They're thin down back aren't they?

They've got Payne and Andrews, daylight then Gardner daylight then Joyce.

Still more than us

He won’t be getting a game ahead of Payne & Andrews and I can’t see them playing all 3 together. Payne & Graham are too similar and need to play on the big forwards.

 

[VitalDread]

SEN saying Caleb Graham to Brisbane.

Makes sense since he is a qlder. Cross him off the list.

Esp with Adams retiring, it's a great pick up