Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Bulldogs85]

Dogs hoping to lock West and Buku in 3/2 year deals

Fantastic news hopefully they Re-sign both are part of the club’s future

 

[go the dogs]

anyone think Caleb could play the role Brad Close plays for the cats?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

There was a repeated suggestion in the media we were only $50k or so apart with GWS and refused to budge (or fell asleep at the wheel). Totally unverified and might have been rubbish.

I have my doubts as he had just bought a house from memory and had to move interstate. I don’t know why you’d bother for that sort of a difference.

It was also to do with the fact that Ward's management team came to us looking for an extension and instead of taking that as an opportunity we told them to hold off and wait until closer to end of the year.

 

[dogwatch]

The "small club" thing is a bit of a furphy these days, IMO.
We're actually pretty well run off-field.
We seem to make a profit each year, we have assets and strong cashflow.

As a supporter base, we revert to the poor-old-Dogs attitude when things go wrong, when we really should be thinking of ourselves a solid club in all respects.

The more we see ourselves as a strong member of the league, the bigger we will become.

I reckon our attitude, as a collective, is about 15 years behind the reality. So is everyone else's opinion of us. It's a lag that we don't need.

Time that attitude changed.

We're usually on the same page GDB but I have to disagree with you here. We are very much one of a group of three small clubs along with St Kilda and North. Melbourne too maybe - it's hard to know with all their establishment/MCC links.

Our official membership is near the bottom of the table (although who the hell knows what the real membership numbers are - the only valid measure should be revenue from membership sales, not number of "memberships" sold). The media kicks us around. We constantly get shoved around by the AFL. They are far more interested in expansion and maximising revenue than in true equalisation or equal opportunity. When there's a chance for a blockbuster event it invariably goes to the bigger Victorian clubs (Carl, Coll, Ess, Rich and sometimes Melb) because they want maximum gate and maximum TV ratings. We probably play fewer H&A games at the MCG than our interstate rivals do.

We get told by all and sundry to shut up because there's an equalisation fund but this is merely conscience money and lip service to equalisation. It merely pays a few bills. It does nothing in the long run for clubs aspiring to grow as they can't get their foot in the door to get wider exposure and the membership growth that follows. Even the 2016 flag only produced a small blip. We would need a sustained run of success for 15 years (something like the Geelong experience) to have any chance at natural growth relative to other clubs.

I accept that we've been run responsibly in terms of finance, community engagement, getting support from all levels of government, general governance and footy operations (mostly). However since the outspoken Peter Gordon retired we don't seem to have any clout at AFL HQ. Who knows what KWW does behind the scenes (she may do a lot for all I know) but we never hear about it. I don't think we're anywhere near being an insider in the Boys' Club.

That doesn't mean we're about to fold or anything like that, but it's very very hard to get any traction in moving up the Big Clubs ladder. In the absence of that we just have to hope for some fairly regular on-field success and make sure we keep doing everything right off the field.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

We're usually on the same page GDB but I have to disagree with you here. We are very much one of a group of three small clubs along with St Kilda and North. Melbourne too maybe - it's hard to know with all their establishment/MCC links.

Our official membership is near the bottom of the table (although who the hell knows what the real membership numbers are - the only valid measure should be revenue from membership sales, not number of "memberships" sold). The media kicks us around. We constantly get shoved around by the AFL. They are far more interested in expansion and maximising revenue than in true equalisation or equal opportunity. When there's a chance for a blockbuster event it invariably goes to the bigger Victorian clubs (Carl, Coll, Ess, Rich and sometimes Melb) because they want maximum gate and maximum TV ratings. We probably play fewer H&A games at the MCG than our interstate rivals do.

We get told by all and sundry to shut up because there's an equalisation fund but this is merely conscience money and lip service to equalisation. It merely pays a few bills. It does nothing in the long run for clubs aspiring to grow as they can't get their foot in the door to get wider exposure and the membership growth that follows. Even the 2016 flag only produced a small blip. We would need a sustained run of success for 15 years (something like the Geelong experience) to have any chance at natural growth relative to other clubs.

I accept that we've been run responsibly in terms of finance, community engagement, getting support from all levels of government, general governance and footy operations (mostly). However since the outspoken Peter Gordon retired we don't seem to have any clout at AFL HQ. Who knows what KWW does behind the scenes (she may do a lot for all I know) but we never hear about it. I don't think we're anywhere near being an insider in the Boys' Club.

That doesn't mean we're about to fold or anything like that, but it's very very hard to get any traction in moving up the Big Clubs ladder. In the absence of that we just have to hope for some fairly regular on-field success and make sure we keep doing everything right off the field.

Agree with you, DW, but we're not the down-and-outers we used to be (hence the 'furphy' reference ).

My main point was that some of the "poor club" tag is to do with the way the football world sees us, rather than the facts.

Sure, we need an increase in membership. That - and a couple more flags - would help change the narrative around the club. We're situated in one of the nation's biggest growth areas so hopefully the club can grow with it.

Having a "media darling" as a coach wouldn't hurt, either. We had one just a handful of years ago...perhaps the same could be said of our president?

A positive change in public perception would be a wonderful thing!

 

[Mr. Walker]

The “small club” thing for me nowadays relates to membership numbers and match day attendance. No problems with club finances and how the place is run. The recent game against WCE is a case in point. Half the top tier was closed off. When Collingwood play WCE that will not happen. Playing in front of full houses every week must be a rush for the players and I guess ( but don’t know) Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

might see that as highly desirable.
We need a long run of sustained success to get the kids of today rusted on to our team and develop a sustained larger following. I think we wasted the chance after 2016. Pity

 

[BallaratBulldog]

man has friends

I wonder what thats like?

 

[Libbaaaa]

anyone think Caleb could play the role Brad Close plays for the cats?

CD could always stick a tackle but doesn’t have the closing speed.

 

[F6Typhoon]

So, what’s the go with JUH at the boxing having a few coldies?
Cornes loves laying the boots in..

 

[Bald]

So, what’s the go with JUH at the boxing having a few coldies?
Cornes loves laying the boots in..

He was likely told to have a week off from the club and handle what ever he is going through in the way he needs to. Nothing wrong with socializing in times where things are tricky.

 

[TiAn_]

There was a repeated suggestion in the media we were only $50k or so apart with GWS and refused to budge (or fell asleep at the wheel). Totally unverified and might have been rubbish.

I have my doubts as he had just bought a house from memory and had to move interstate. I don’t know why you’d bother for that sort of a difference.

Nah we were $50k short of what Ward initially wanted, but because we wouldn’t come up to what he wanted the negotiations got parked. Then GWS sniffed the opening and godfathered him.

The other one we botched worse was Nathan Brown. We offered him less than his previous contract.

 

[CarnTheScray]

The “small club” thing for me nowadays relates to membership numbers and match day attendance. No problems with club finances and how the place is run. The recent game against WCE is a case in point. Half the top tier was closed off. When Collingwood play WCE that will not happen. Playing in front of full houses every week must be a rush for the players and I guess ( but don’t know) Bailey Smith might see that as highly desirable.
We need a long run of sustained success to get the kids of today rusted on to our team and develop a sustained larger following. I think we wasted the chance after 2016. Pity

When any other side other than Collingwood, premiership Richmond, and contending Carlton are playing West Coast in VIC, that will happen.

 

[CarnTheScray]

We’re only a minnow in the eyes of people who lived the 70s and 80s. We will never be bigger than Collingwood Carlton Essendon and Richmond because that ship sailed in the 70s but who cares, doesn’t mean we only have 5 supporters and can’t gain supporters.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Nah we were $50k short of what Ward initially wanted, but because we wouldn’t come up to what he wanted the negotiations got parked. Then GWS sniffed the opening and godfathered him.

The other one we botched worse was Nathan Brown. We offered him less than his previous contract.

I’ve heard the club’s account of the Brown negotiations and I think some were pretty happy to make that offer!

 

[geoffjennings79]

Not sure of the timing of the contract offer to Brown, but I've never seen a player more checked out than his last game for us. Even kicking 3 goals, and the rest of the team looking like they just wanted the season to be over, he gave off no energy and no interest in proceedings.

 

[cherrypie]

The “small club” thing for me nowadays relates to membership numbers and match day attendance. No problems with club finances and how the place is run. The recent game against WCE is a case in point. Half the top tier was closed off. When Collingwood play WCE that will not happen. Playing in front of full houses every week must be a rush for the players and I guess ( but don’t know) Bailey Smith might see that as highly desirable.
We need a long run of sustained success to get the kids of today rusted on to our team and develop a sustained larger following. I think we wasted the chance after 2016. Pity

Membership numbers are basically worthless these days without the context of how many games they’re for, how many are actually attended, how many are real humans etc. GWS gained heaps of "members" because they had the cheapest digital membership, providing a discount for Kayo users.

Agree with the attendance part though

 

[Norm De Guerre]

During Nathan Browns first ever post draft presser after arriving at the club he said he was in the game to make money.

Nothing that he has done since leaving the game has led me to believe that he's had a road to Damascus like moment that has assuaged him from that belief.

He was gone the moment he was drafted by the club.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

During Nathan Browns first ever post draft presser after arriving at the club he said he was in the game to make money.

Nothing that he has done since leaving the game has led me to believe that he's had a road to Damascus like moment that has assuaged him from that belief.

He was gone the moment he was drafted by the club.

Yep.

He said he had no other skills so he had to make his fortune in football.

Wouldn't have mattered who drafted him, he was always going to take a better offer.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Yep.

He said he had no other skills so he had to make his fortune in football.

Wouldn't have mattered who drafted him, he was always going to take a better offer.

I had to kinda admire his frankness and honesty.

But I knew from that day that it was only a matter of time before a 'big club' hoovered him up with an off the books property deal.

Something that has been alleged to be at the heart of him choosing Richmond.

 

[doggiesin08]

Dogs hoping to lock West and Buku in 3/2 year deals

Does that mean 3 for West and 2 for Buku? I’d be happy with that but think it’s a mistake from West’s management. Given his trajectory I’d be going for only 2 years and looking for an earlier pay bump if that continues.

Buku is another example for why North shouldn’t get priority picks. Sure he wouldn’t look as good in that rabble as he does with us but he’d be a good foil for Larkey up forward or easily slot into their backline. This isn’t just hindsight either and could have been figured this based on his exposed VFL form. Little excuse to have not offered him a good enough contract to move.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

I had to kinda admire his frankness and honesty.

But I knew from that day that it was only a matter of time before a 'big club' hoovered him up with an off the books property deal.

Something that has been alleged to be at the heart of him choosing Richmond.

Interestingly, he has said he'd have been better off staying with the Dogs.

The Richmond-inspired property deals were duds. Richo, Campbell, Brown and who knows how many others all lost money in a failed development.

 

[doggiesin08]

When any other side other than Collingwood, premiership Richmond, and contending Carlton are playing West Coast in VIC, that will happen.

I think the AFL should do a complete review of its ticket price and game attendance strategy. I like the UK model when pretty much all soccer games are at or close to capacity and it’s the ticket price that varies between clubs. I’m curious how much it would cost the AFL and clubs to cut Marvel ticket prices by 50% in the hopes of getting an extra 10-20k there each week and growing the game generally.

 

[geoffjennings79]

I had to kinda admire his frankness and honesty.

But I knew from that day that it was only a matter of time before a 'big club' hoovered him up with an off the books property deal.

Something that has been alleged to be at the heart of him choosing Richmond.

Not alleged, he's admitted it since.

Richmond president Leon Daphne took him up in a helicopter to show him potential investments, which Daphne/Richmond (off the books of course) could help him partake in. He was as open to his motivation post career as at the start. I believe the promised riches didn't quite eventuate in the property portfolio though, so he only had his footy $$$ to tide him over. Possibly why he's still squawking on TV for some betting company!

 

[geoffjennings79]

Interestingly, he has said he'd have been better off staying with the Dogs.

The Richmond-inspired property deals were duds. Richo, Campbell, Brown and who knows how many others all lost money in a failed development.

Sorry, GDB, missed this post before I replied to Norm along the sane lines.
Leon Daphne sold quite a few players a deal too good to be true. The risk of believing a glorified car salesman!

 

[Anja_Nees]

Not alleged, he's admitted it since.

Richmond president Leon Daphne took him up in a helicopter to show him potential investments, which Daphne/Richmond (off the books of course) could help him partake in. He was as open to his motivation post career as at the start. I believe the promised riches didn't quite eventuate in the property portfolio though, so he only had his footy $$$ to tide him over. Possibly why he's still squawking on TV for some betting company!

Clinton Casey it was. The weird part was that it was even reported in the papers at the time, but the idea was that Casey would hook them up with the investments but they had to pay for them so it wasn’t a cap issue.

Hilariously went up in smoke.

I don’t know if we would have gone for Aker if we had kept Brown but he would have been able to enjoy a few more prelims at least.

Ironically despite the promise of property developments out east he ended up settling in Williamstown.