Trade/Draft/Delist

[HiHoEverybody]

Are you serious mate!! You dont think the saints had a premiership winning side two years back. They fumbled majorly in their game but they had a premiership winning team. And you dont think the hawks have that?? Give them a couple of years. Melbourne would be falling over themselves for a spine like franklin, roughhead, campbell/taylor, croad.
So why say that?? Surely you are not criticising the point by telling me that hawthorn havnt won a premiership. The fact is their side is going to be up top for the next 3/5 years baring real problems. How is Melbourne going to beat them???? If you want to criticise a point then add a little credibility and argument rather than smartass trivial one liners.

Hold on...you want to keep Neitz, the guy cannot stand up anymore. His body doesnt have what it takes these days. Another year will just mean maybe 10 more games with a max of 20 goals. Not what a full forward should be delivering. Compare that to White who is second in the league for hitouts, and whats more, he's not keeping young guys out as melbourne have no decent young ruck prospects, unlike Newton up forward.

Hopefully in the 8 next year? Of course melbourne could make the 8 next year. Probably will cos i cant see you guys having the balls to do what im saying. You have a moderate group cut down by injury, but a group that will never win you a flag. you will make the 8 and thats it. It will be heralded as a great return considering 2007, bouncing back into the 8 so fast, but the reality is 2007 was cut down by injury. Why should the finals next year be your goal if you have no chance of winning the flag? a premiership down the track should! Wonder why Melbourne yo-yos through the ladder each year?? Cos the thinking seems to be finals is good enough. What has Melbourne done since realsing it didnt have a backline 10 years ago?
Im sorry MasterBate but its thinking like yours thats has seen you guys win how many premierships over the past 45 years??

Premiership 2010?? this is clearly not a reality. You dont want to trade anyone of value?? How are you propsing to solve your KPP problems by then?? Give me a side ever that has won a granny with no full forward, no centre half forward, no ruckman, no chb and no fullback. Good luck getting decent players to fill these spots in 3 years while hanging onto all your decent trade value.

And hanging onto all of bruce, green and johnstone to play cameo forward roles in 2010?? What would you prefer...3 aging crumbing forward types or 3 quality 23 yr old talls or midfielders. I cant see any reason to keep these players if they arent going to be a premiership midfield. Better off trading them and building a side around the good young midfield group you have

Finally, Miller. He's the closest thing to a young kpp you guys have. I remember he played a couple of good games on Barry Hall in the backline. He hasnt lived up to potential so far but hes been bulltished around the lineup cos you guys have no backline or forward line to speak of. You seem to throw him in whatever gap seems most obvious on the day. Put him at Chb and leave him there, let Bailey, a proven defensive coach work with him and see what happens. If he still fails, no harm no foul, if he succeeds then theres one possy in the spine filled.

Melbournes lineup has real problems that need to be addressed before a flag will ever be won. i hope for your guys sake you actually address them.

Please answer my questions because if all dees supporters feel the way Masterbate does then i think another 45 years might not be unrealsitic.

I agree 100% mate! Our spine Is pathetic, Carrol isn't up to it at full back, Rivers Is a gun but isn't big enough to be our CHB, White doesn't have long left In the ruck and who Is our CHF? The only position we may be able to fill Is FF with Newton. So where do we get these Key position players from? Its not like we're going to bottom out for years and clean up In the next few drafts so the reality Is If we're going to move forward we have to make big decisions and trade some guys that have some value. Don't get me wrong I love the likes of Trav and Greeny and also Bruce but they just haven't got the job done over the years. I'm not saying lets trade all 3 of them but we should be looking to see what we can get for the likes of these guys.

 

[dutchy12]

Would the Dees look at something along the lines of Murphy + Dockers 1st round pick (#7?) for Dees 1st and 2nd round? Dockers will be chasing Palmer, which looks unlikely to interest you guys, and Rance or Collier would still be available at pick 7. Murphy to replace Neitz at FF.

I would be interested in that although Murphy hasn't been gettign many games this year in no offence given but a [pretty poor fremantle outift.

 

[master bate]

In reply to Gaza_Stripper (there is no point quoting your essay)

High draft picks are good, but building a premiership team is what its all about. The first thing I would try to address is the lack of a spine, but the eagles won a flag with Lynch and Hansen, the Swans with Leo Barry and LRT, none of those are high pick Reiwaldt, Kosi, Buddy, Roughead types. So then plan is simple, get rid of old players (holland and ward onto the three we that have retired) and players that dont cut it (warnock, ferguson etc). That gets the list into a position where it is young and can build together. Remember a lot of the strength of Hawthorn is players like Sewell, Young, Gilham and McGlynn from the rookie list.

What I'm proposing is next year our team starts like this

FB: Bell Carroll Whelan
HB:Bartram Rivers Wheatley
C: Green McLean Johnstone
HF: Yze Bate Bruce
FF: Davey Neitz Robertson
Foll: ???? Jones McDonald
Int: Moloney Sylvia ???? Dunn Petterd

Backline by 2010: Caroll and Whelan are replaced by a tall CHB, with Rivers onto a flank and Frawley, the rest of the backline should be playing quality footy in 2010, Wheatley is the oldest player
Midfield by 2010: McDonald out, young talent such as Cale Morton in, Green and Johnstone the oldest players
Forward line by 2010: Yze, Neitz out, Bruce and Robbo are the older members but could still play good footy at their age, Newton replaces Neitz, Bate moves onto a flank and a young CHF is playing there.
Ruck: I really am at a loss of what to do here, who would want Jeff White, maybe the saints for a second round pick. I would like to start next year with PJ and someone like Cameron Wood (use second rounder from Jeff White) as our starting ruckman, with Neaves on the main list and another drafted ruckman (use our third pick). So we then have 4 young ruckman on our main list, and we could rookie another one.

So what I'm saying is that if we keep Bruce, Green and Johnstone (the three up for trading) and select young talls to complement Garland, Miller (I've done a backflip, give Bailey a chance with him, in the backline preferably), then we will have a talented midfield, complemented by a backline that will have Bell, Rivers, and Bartram who I think will be very good by 2010 and two young talls in Frawley and another. Combine that with a forward line with goal kickers of Newton and Robbo, Davey, Bate and Bruce in there and a young CHF, Jake Edwards is one we are chasing from the blues or Scott Simpson from the draft (we should go after a tall with our second pick), Garland has shown good signs as well.

You may say that then I will have talls in only there third season holding down key posts, but with the likes of Rivers and Bell, Bate and Bruce on the flanks it takes the pressure off them and with a gun midfield we could win the flag. Nathan Ablett and Matthew Egan are going pretty well at Geelong this year and they are both very young.

Its not impossible to for a coach to win a flag in their third year. I truly believe we are in too good a position to cut our losses and go the Hawks and Saints method.

 

[CaptainDavey]

Given our acquisition of Bailey, why not try and poach some Port talent?

I've always thought Salopek was an extremely classy player who can be a hardnut too when required. If anything, this season has been plagued by injury and poor form, and what with the improvement of Boak, maybe he's further down the pecking order? Would like to see him down at the club. Is he Victorian?

It may be too late as well but I suggested once aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages ago that we should grab Thurstans but it appears he has matured into a great backman...Gawddamnit! He's Victorian if IIRC too.

But the biggest priority when it comes to the draft:
Speed in the midfield
A ruckman
Key back

 

[Gaza_Stripper]

Essentially we both have the same train of thought, we only differ in the time frame and the method. I personally think it will take a little longer and hence will be better achieved by trading the likes of TJ, CB and BG whle they have good currency but if you can manage it without doing so then good, youl be a better side for it.
I just personally think you will have a better chance of getting the team you need by offering them up. but essentially we both see the same requirements before melbourne can get a flag.
btw
i reckon this is how youl probs line up next year
FB: Wheatley Carroll Whelan
HB:Johnstone Miller Rivers
C: Green McLean Bruce
HF: Sylvia Dunn Bate
FF: Davey Newton Robertson
Foll: White Jones McDonald
Int: Moloney, (insert ruckman here), Bartram, Petterd

 

[Supermercado]

Wrong, we're going to swap Miller with Northcote Park Colts for a slab of Cougar and two tickets to the Boxing Day Test.

 

[Deenamite]

Bailey will decide whether we keep Miller or not, whether he's worth trying to develop and the like.

For us to start fielding a quality side I'm adament on of Bruce, Trav or Greeny has to go. Out of all of those I'd prefer to keep Trav the most as we need him the most. Bruce's role can be filled by Dunn easily.

VERSATILE KPP

To have someone that could solve problems at either end would be a blessing. We need a CHF/FB the most.

 

[eathb]

Given our acquisition of Bailey, why not try and poach some Port talent?

I've always thought Salopek was an extremely classy player who can be a hardnut too when required. If anything, this season has been plagued by injury and poor form, and what with the improvement of Boak, maybe he's further down the pecking order? Would like to see him down at the club. Is he Victorian?

Yes Salopek is definitely Victorian. Anyways he's signed on for another 3 years this year, so he won't be tradeable.

However would u guys be interested in Damon White (CHF/FF), Ryan Willits (CHF/FF/FB) or Fabian DeLuca (ruckman)

 

[Deenamite]

Yes Salopek is definitely Victorian. Anyways he's signed on for another 3 years this year, so he won't be tradeable.

However would u guys be interested in Damon White (CHF/FF), Ryan Willits (CHF/FF/FB) or Fabian DeLuca (ruckman)

Heard a bit about White and DeLuca, not so much the other guy. Care to explain a bit.

 

[eathb]

Heard a bit about White and DeLuca, not so much the other guy. Care to explain a bit.

Will turn 21 next year and was a pretty high (pick 19) draft pick. Can play as a FF, CHF, CHB or FB, but playing forward is his preferred spot.

Showed promise last year, but kicked horrible. Kicked like 0.3, 0.4 then 1.4 or something.

Might have had played more games in the power side this year, if Westhoff wasn't stealing his thunder. Another factor for him not playing regular AFL games is that he is in the WORST SANFL team right now, so the ball delivery to him is shit and we can't see his full capacity. Also injuries throughout the year hasn't helped as well.

Built like a tank, 198 cm, 99 kg as u can see from this pic:

I think Port will be looking to use him as trade bait for next season as he's finding it difficult to crack the side. We've got lots of KP forwards and defenders way ahead of him, so it will be tough for him. Maybe he could help u guys??

 

[master bate]

Willits is hopeless, not agile enough and can't kick, very Brad Miller.

White is a ruckman IMO, not a viable forward option, hes handy but I cant see him solving our problems.

As for Deluca, maybe, but does he have any more upside than Jamar or PJ.

 

[CaptainDavey]

What to do with Neville and Warnock?

 

[Deenamite]

What to do with Neville and Warnock?

De-list Neville, not sure about Warnock. Seems to be a worse version of Wheatley.

 

[theycallmedashow]

Guys, was running down at an oval in glen iris this morning, and adam yze was just jogging a couple of 200's before walking home..looks in good nick, i hope he plays next year for the dees, love watching him...Also i don't think willits is that great but with TJ hitting people lace out, he could he an option with that ample frame

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Well we have 3 spots already, will probably need to get rid of another 3 to get 6 spots for the draft and the PSD.

To go with Bizzell, Brown and Pickett I'd probably delist Neville, Jamar and Warnock. Retain Miller and Ferguson for one more year, while Holland and Ward are handy depth players. Draft the best available kid at #4 then go for a few talls with our next picks while getting a mature aged player in the PSD.

Then again Bailey may see things completely different to any of us and I'm excited to see which direction he takes the club!

 

[stickman11]

Well we have 3 spots already, will probably need to get rid of another 3 to get 6 spots for the draft and the PSD.

To go with Bizzell, Brown and Pickett I'd probably delist Neville, Jamar and Warnock. Retain Miller and Ferguson for one more year, while Holland and Ward are handy depth players. Draft the best available kid at #4 then go for a few talls with our next picks while getting a mature aged player in the PSD.

Then again Bailey may see things completely different to any of us and I'm excited to see which direction he takes the club!

Ward will go and godfrey

 

[Dez!]

Guys, was running down at an oval in glen iris this morning, and adam yze was just jogging a couple of 200's before walking home..looks in good nick, i hope he plays next year for the dees, love watching him...Also i don't think willits is that great but with TJ hitting people lace out, he could he an option with that ample frame

Already confirmed the ooze will be at the Dees next season, which is nothing more than sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

 

[Gissa]

Draft:
Henderson (Geelong Falcons)
will need another key forward to support Newton and replace the soon-to-retire Neitz.

 

[KTLK]

Please feel free to comment:

1) The trade: What do you like to do? Who do you want?

2) Who do you like to draft?

3) Who do you like to delist?

Thank you

Greetings,

Perhaps this idea could work? Maybe or maybe not?

With draft picks 4, 21, 37, 53 and 69

Delistings

Bizzell, Brown and Pickett (retired), and players like Miller, Ward, Fergusson, Jamar, Warnock etc would be ideal for trade. Trade to get something is better than nothing.

Trade

1.Trade Brad Miller to Brisbane for Cameron Wood (Direct Swap). This is a fair swap. Experience player for a youngster.

2.Trade Nathan Carroll and Matthew Warnock to Western Bulldogs for round 2 draft pick (22). Dogs need talls.

3.Trade Mark Jamar to Sydney for round 3 pick (45). Sydney need ruckman and having Jamar for pick 45 without losing their first two round picks could help.

4.Trade Simon Buckley and Daniel Ward to Kangaroos for round 3 pick (47). Kangaroos are looking for midfielders. Buckley is a young midfielder and with Bate, Johnstone, Mclean, Moloney, McDonald, Sylvia, Bruce, Pettard etc, I can’t see there will be a room for him. Ward is a dashing defender and with Bartram and Whelan there, Ward will be struggling. Therefore, trade Buckley and Ward (mix of youth & experience) for pick 47 as a package deal.

5.Trade Ryan Fergusson to Carlton for round 3 pick (36). Having Fergusson at Carlton will boost their strength and experience in defence. The other option is maybe Richmond for round 3 pick (35). Fergusson could be a handy replacement in defence especially for someone like Gasper.

6.Trade second round 2 pick 22 to West Coast for Brent Staker. Staker is a kpp 196cm tall, and will boost strength in the backline. Staker can also play FF when required. This reminds me of Sean Wight, when FF’s are struggling or having a dirty day, Staker can provide backup and flexibility.

As the result of this:

Gain: Wood, Staker, pick 22, 35 or 36, 45 and 47
Lost: Miller, Jamar, Ward, Buckley, Fergusson, Carroll and Warnock and pick 22.

Draft picks: 4, 21, 35 or 36, 37, 45, 47, 53 and 69 (Total: 7 picks)

I don’t rate Murphy (From Dockers) highly enough. I would prefer Dunn than Murphy. Dunn is similar to Murphy in size. Therefore would draft younger talent in the draft.

Draft

The need of kpp defender and forward is required. Alex Rance (kpp-defender) and Scott Simpson (kpp – forward) is what the club need. Pick 4 will be either Palmer or Erbert. Morton will be selected before pick 4. If the club choose any 1 of the players, then the club will miss out on Alex Rance.

Scott Simpson can be used on pick 21 and is about right.

What about Scott Selwood and Dawson Simpson (207cm ruckman)? Worth considering?

PSD Draft

This can be any best available player out of contract. Depends who is available, at this stage, how about Ashley Sampi? Worth a punt to replace Pickett?

 

[demonfan9]

Delisted/Retired

Clint Bizzell
Nathan Brown
Byron Pickett
Ben Holland
Daniel Ward
Daniel Hayes (r)

Bizzell, Brown and Pickett all made the smart decision to retire, before possibly being booted. I feel that Holland and Ward are under threat, due to their age (both are 30 years old). In order to improve, we need to develop young talent, and unfortunately for these two, they are dispensible. Hayes, as you might remember, is the young rookie who was suspended by the club mid-season after going AWOL. Clearly, he can't commit to AFL football for whatever reason, so I've got no doubt he'll be cut.

Trade Bait

Brad Miller
Ryan Ferguson
Mark Jamar
Matthew Warnock

Miller will no doubt be looked at by a couple of clubs. I don't think he should be delisted, worth another try under a new coach. But if something is offered, we should definately consider it. Similarly, Ferguson has some potential, and a new coach might help flourish his career. But he is already 26, so don't expect him to get any bigger. He is simply a tall flanker, and not a key position player. I would be reluctant to get rid of our third ruckman (Jamar), unless we get another through the draft or trades. But a 198cm/100kg 24 year old with 52 games experience is sure to attract some interest. Warnock failed to take advantage of our injury-ravaged season (not sure if he was as well), managing just 2 games, but 2008 could be his last chance. I doubt any club will have seen enough of him to want to trade.

In summary, I suspect that around 8 players will be gone from the club over the off-season. Considering our list isn't that bad (like a Richmond or Carlton), 8 players is quite a bit. We have been reluctant to get rid of our older players, as we've been a finals contender since 2004. But now that we've fallen, we need to rejuvinate the list and youth is definately the way to go. 6-7 youngsters and maybe 1-2 traded players will give it a healthy kickstart that Bailey can work with next year.

 

[Wolfmother]

I don't think it is worth trading eight players mainly for draft picks. It is a hit and hope strategy, since you won't find four players below pick 30 in a weak draft that will be able to play regular AFL football.

I would like to take a punt on Callum Urch from North. Been on their list for five years with his hamstrings being the problem. If they are going to delist him we should pick him up in the PSD rather than some hit and hope 17year old and pick 80.

 

[master bate]

Trade

1.Trade Brad Miller to Brisbane for Cameron Wood (Direct Swap). This is a fair swap. Experience player for a youngster.

2.Trade Nathan Carroll and Matthew Warnock to Western Bulldogs for round 2 draft pick (22). Dogs need talls.

3.Trade Mark Jamar to Sydney for round 3 pick (45). Sydney need ruckman and having Jamar for pick 45 without losing their first two round picks could help.

4.Trade Simon Buckley and Daniel Ward to Kangaroos for round 3 pick (47). Kangaroos are looking for midfielders. Buckley is a young midfielder and with Bate, Johnstone, Mclean, Moloney, McDonald, Sylvia, Bruce, Pettard etc, I can’t see there will be a room for him. Ward is a dashing defender and with Bartram and Whelan there, Ward will be struggling. Therefore, trade Buckley and Ward (mix of youth & experience) for pick 47 as a package deal.

5.Trade Ryan Fergusson to Carlton for round 3 pick (36). Having Fergusson at Carlton will boost their strength and experience in defence. The other option is maybe Richmond for round 3 pick (35). Fergusson could be a handy replacement in defence especially for someone like Gasper.

6.Trade second round 2 pick 22 to West Coast for Brent Staker. Staker is a kpp 196cm tall, and will boost strength in the backline. Staker can also play FF when required. This reminds me of Sean Wight, when FF’s are struggling or having a dirty day, Staker can provide backup and flexibility.

The bolded trades would not be accepted, you need to lower your beliefs about some of our players. If you dont believe go ask people form the respective boards whether they would accept the trade, you will get laughed at.

 

[KTLK]

The bolded trades would not be accepted, you need to lower your beliefs about some of our players. If you dont believe go ask people form the respective boards whether they would accept the trade, you will get laughed at.

If you think these trades are unacceptable, mind asking for your opinion/s on point 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 trade worth please?

 

[Supermercado]

I would have thought Miller to the Bulldogs would be a chance. God knows what they'd offer though.

 

[Deenamite]

Already confirmed the ooze will be at the Dees next season, which is nothing more than sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Disagree. Waste of space.