List Mgmt. Trade/Draft/Targets Part II

[Tiges1229]

The Ellis's, Conca, Miles, Lloyd, Butler. We're starting to let a few go here on just goodwill. I realize we got Lynch but these goodwill giveaways are starting to wear thin

What are we like some ****ing Salvation Army op shop store where clubs can just say oh yer look it’s Richmond let’s just do some cheap shopping and bend them over with no lube .

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Only concern RE: trading butler for a late pick is if it ends up being a pick we don’t use - as long as we move up the order on our last pick I’m more than ok with it

Very professional and understanding by our club - putting the players future and exposure at AFL level first

I think they may be looking at a 2020 pick
Points important for potential F/S and academy player/s

 

[Marcel Proust]

What are we like some ******* Salvation Army op shop store where clubs can just say oh yer look it’s Richmond let’s just do some cheap shopping and bend them over with no lube .

want a premiership play? here take two

 

[WATiger86]

I think they may be looking at a 2020 pick
Points important for potential F/S and academy player/s

Also acceptable

 

[Tygrys]

Butler isn’t much chop. People wanting a kings ransom are kidding themselves.


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What's a 'Kings ransom'? No one is suggesting a first rounder or anything of the sort. We do have three picks however in the late 30s and early 40's that we should be looking at upgrading. Moving up even a few places would be a win compared to getting a pick in the 70's that we won't use. For a 23 year old premiership player who has played almost 50 games that is not a unreasonable expectation. Again would rather let him go into the draft than accept a pick we won't use for a player that is going to be best 22 for them.

 

[CASEYS9420]

What are we like some ******* Salvation Army op shop store where clubs can just say oh yer look it’s Richmond let’s just do some cheap shopping and bend them over with no lube .

We just handed over the bulldogs their leading goalscorer for the year in Lloyd. Fremantle, a great defensive mid in Conca that allows Fyfe to dominate and win Brownlow medals buuuut no one cares because we're always going to find gems in 3rd rounders. End of rant

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What's a 'Kings ransom'? No one is suggesting a first rounder or anything of the sort. We do have three picks however in the late 30s and early 40's that we should be looking at upgrading. Moving up even a few places would be a win compared to getting a pick in the 70's that we won't use. For a 23 year old premiership player who has played almost 50 games that is not a unreasonable expectation. Again would rather let him go into the draft than accept a pick we won't use for a player that is going to be best 22 for them.

Agreed with all of that until the letting him go to the draft bit at the end. That would be pointlessly mean.

 

[Tygrys]

how the fu** did hawforn get pick 15 for Jeff Anderson and we're gonna throw away Butler for pick 50

It does highlight the lie that when you win a premiership that the only picks you can get for your fringe players are junk ones. For what it's worth Anderson had only played 10 games for 4 goals at the time. Contrast that with Butler who has 45 games and 53 goals and is a premiership player. Didn't mind letting Lloyd, Milne, Stengle and C. Ellis go for the picks we got last year. Letting Butler go for the same range is far more problematic.

 

[Tygrys]

Agreed with all of that until the letting him go to the draft bit at the end. That would be pointlessly mean.

Fair enough, but I'm getting tired of the expectation of opposition supporters that every player that wants to leave Richmond all they'll need to do is give us a third or fourth rounder based on what we did last year Even if they expect the player to be first 22.. It was the widespread expectation for Shai Bolton before he signed, it's the expectation it seems for McIntosh, Butler and Menadue now. There has to be some point where we say enough.

 

[GoTigers2015]

I think they may be looking at a 2020 pick
Points important for potential F/S and academy player/s

A 2020 4th rounder pick could end up in the 3rd round with the draft heavily compromised.

 

[nugget_12]

Surely with academy and MJ Rioli looking like being on our radar next year, any trades for butler/menadue would be for future picks or picks this year we can bundle for future picks.

Sad to see those boys go but I just don’t see them playing much senior footy next year with the players we have coming back in to the side.

 

[Tiges1229]

It does highlight the lie that when you win a premiership that the only picks you can get for your fringe players are junk ones. For what it's worth Anderson had only played 10 games for 4 goals at the time. Contrast that with Butler who has 45 games and 53 goals and is a premiership player. Didn't mind letting Lloyd, Milne, Stengle and C. Ellis go for the picks we got last year. Letting Butler go for the same range is far more problematic.

It’s a ****ing joke .

 

[Tiger4Ever]

Hear we are looking at drafting relton again, he’s off the burgers and would thrive under our new culture.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Adam Macron is available

Isnt he the French president?

 

[Tortured Tiger]

It’s a ******* joke .

I think we would want fair value for a player we need but if they are not in our top 25 players and we have coverage for that role, they will let them go cheaply. This keeps the player happy, creates cap space and gives us a chance to draft for need. I think Butler is worth a third round pick as well but he has played limited senior games in the last 2 years. In terms or arguing about cap space we are all guessing, Balme said it was tight so I believe him.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Well I'm off cycling in India for 2 weeks. So I won't be bale to check this thread, and find out that nothing is happening. Hopefully I come back and we've got Fyfe. But I expect we'll add pick 53 to our arsenal.

Here you go..

Traveling to India? Don't Let Delhi Belly Ruin Your Trip. - Travel Ready MD

I certainly didn’t know I could avoid travelers diarrhea (TD) or treat it. I thought you just had to put up with it if you want to see the world.

travelreadymd.com

 

[Tiger_Mad_80]

Isnt he the French president?

france is a myth. it doesnt exist

all 'citizens' are paid actors

 

[Phar Ace]

st kilda premiership cans ?

And which century?

 

[Tiger_Mad_80]

It does highlight the lie that when you win a premiership that the only picks you can get for your fringe players are junk ones. For what it's worth Anderson had only played 10 games for 4 goals at the time. Contrast that with Butler who has 45 games and 53 goals and is a premiership player. Didn't mind letting Lloyd, Milne, Stengle and C. Ellis go for the picks we got last year. Letting Butler go for the same range is far more problematic.

suprised norf havent enquired

 

[Phar Ace]

Must not forget either these players need to be replaced on the list, and even minimum wage players are going to take $100k or more on average. So you are down to creating only about $750k extra cap space by your own estimates. Add to this the extra $260k or so from the AFL wide salary cap increase in 2020, and we might have an extra $1m or so to work with.

But the club knew the extra $260k was coming and will no doubt have pre-committed that to existing contracts signed from 2017 onwards. And as others have said we had all the re-signings, and players like Bolton, Stack, Baker, tick them off one by one but they would have to be averaging at least $100k more than previous deals otherwise the likes of Ralph Carr are asleep at the wheel. So given the long list of re-signing upgrades over and above any re-signing downgrades it is not hard to see the $750k of “new” cap space evaporating completely just within the existing playing group.

So any substantial spare cap space now could really be coming from previous front loading being greater than current back loading of the major contracts. Any of us would only be guessing about this, but if Balme has stated publicly we won’t be busy in the trade period due to the salary cap then there is no real reason to disbelieve him.

Even if it is the case we have some spare cap space I am sure not all of us would be of the view to jam our cap based on being in the premiership “window.” Our 2019 Premiership was probably the first team since 2015 to win a flag that was in its “window,” so that makes a nonsense of that type of thinking. If there is some money spare and no glaring need for a new player on highish money, then use the spare on existing contracts and make life easier down the road, makes perfect sense to me.

More good sense spoke about the realities. It is even preferred to have just a little tucked away - there will be fresh opportunities next draft, and as a consequence trade period, that will throw up quite a few unexpected opportunities I'd suggest.

 

[Marcel Proust]

I think we would want fair value for a player we need but if they are not in our top 25 players and we have coverage for that role, they will let them go cheaply. This keeps the player happy, creates cap space and gives us a chance to draft for need. I think Butler is worth a third round pick as well but he has played limited senior games in the last 2 years. In terms or arguing about cap space we are all guessing, Balme said it was tight so I believe him.

If we keep finding players in the draft like Baker, Ross, George its alright

 

[_RT_]

Only concern RE: trading butler for a late pick is if it ends up being a pick we don’t use - as long as we move up the order on our last pick I’m more than ok with it

Very professional and understanding by our club - putting the players future and exposure at AFL level first

Better to look at it like this.

We currently have 36 listed players. Butler Menadue & Moore likely to be gone McIntosh possibly. That would give us 32-33 listed players heading into the draft. Baker Chol and Stack have been upgraded, meaning we could still take our 4 picks at 19 38 39 & 41 plus 2 rookies, which would effectively mean that the losses of Butler has allowed us to put Stack on the main list using that 4th round pick the Saints may trade us for him.

 

[BKM78]

Saints have publicly stated that their priorities lie elsewhere and can't 'come to the party' or negotiate on any trade for Butler.
Butler wants out. Can't get a game.
No DH policy means you facilitate it.
Anyone who wants to play hardball or stand firm I this scenario can go follow Dodoros dons. It literally makes no sense to make this trade hard. None.

 

[Tiger_Mad_80]

Saints have publicly stated that their priorities lie elsewhere and can't 'come to the party' or negotiate on any trade for Butler.
Butler wants out. Can't get a game.
No DH policy means you facilitate it.
Anyone who wants to play hardball or stand firm I this scenario can go follow Dodoros dons. It literally makes no sense to make this trade hard. None.

why should we help st kilda out ? what have they done or what will they do to help us out?

sweet **** all thats what

 

[RockJobster0312]

Theres a lot of what you both say that makes sense - Im of the opinion that cap space is not tight right now but they are leaving wiggle room for
1)just in case something falls into our lap and its too good to refuse
2)players coming out of contract and contract upgrades in the future ie Stack and Pickett spring to mind, if they go on to become the players most of us think they will, they will deserve a significant payday
3) however, number 2 is offset by the fact that Cotchin, Reiwoldt and rance who are all on 750k+ are coming to the end of their contracts over the next year or 2 and they will be playing for significantly less in their next contracts(if they even play on at all) lets hope they do. Its a jigsaw puzzle that is planned 5 years ahead, lets also not forget that each year the salary cap increases as well.

I just feel we're in a really good place cap wise for a dominant side - compare it to the pies situation who are in real trouble next year

Think our definition of 'tight' is slightly different. I'm looking at the relative immovability of our list to ensure player retention. You seem to define it as the likelihood of losing players like Collingwood are at risk of doing.

In that I agree with you, we have more flexibility than a Collingwood and it's maintaining that flexibility that I think our cap situation is tight.

This is why posters getting up in arms about letting the likes of CEllis, Miles, Lloyd, Butler and Menadue go for 'charity' need to step back and see the bigger picture. Firstly it shows the great culture of the club that it doesn't get in the way of players seeking legitimately better opportunities. Second, by playing 'hard ball' you run the risk of losing out and either a) delisting a player and therefore getting no return at all or b) having to re-sign him impacting that flexibility.

Imo, the fact that Collingwood a has so much money invested in their fringe players has put them in this hole whereby they could legitimately lose Grundy due to poor salary cap management.

We are not in that spot, thank the Balmy.