List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2018/2019 - Part 3

[loki04]

Yeah but Roughead is a fringe player that will be cover at best - not best 22

Lol and murray was what exactly ? A rookie listed player who never played a game.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

By the way, how terrible is that time of year? Footy has finished, the trade period is over, and now we wait for the draft. To make matters worse, the draft is usually exciting but this time our draftees are already half picked. Boring

Might have to find a new hobby.

See that is the beauty of the track.

Never boring, well not to me.

But this time it’s the best racing, spring weather and a little bit of footy stuff like drafting..,,

Great time to be alive.

Caulfield Cup this week

Winx next

 

[TradeDraft]

By the way, how terrible is that time of year? Footy has finished, the trade period is over, and now we wait for the draft. To make matters worse, the draft is usually exciting but this time our draftees are already half picked. Boring

Might have to find a new hobby.

2nd That. Worst time of year as no footy now until Pre-Season Starts which be at least few more weeks away

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Lol and murray was what exactly ? A rookie listed player who never played a game.

Whilst that is correct, it’s not really different from Picking a player in the national draft.

All up the recruiting is about finding talent wherever it’s hiding so to speak.

Was Murray too high, for some yes, fair enough. Not knowing his high level dumbness it may have been if value. Likely we’ll never know now. Shame.

 

[doppleganger]

So why wasn't Roughead a proven premiership KPP player traded for a pick in the 30s? A player with much higher credentials.

Typically they go for a song.

??

The value of a trade is based around two clubs expected future value of the respective asset.

Not on exposed form.

Hence young players with untapped potential can still demand value in a trade, whilst a proven veteran who has fallen out of favour can be picked off the scrap heap.

That is why a unproven kid like Setterfield ‘cost’ more than a proven dual premiership player with 120 AFL games under his belt in Duryea.

Duryea has the credentials, but Setterfield has the potential...it is the future potential that dictates the trade currency.

 

[TradeDraft]

So why wasn't Roughead a proven premiership KPP player traded for a pick in the 30s? A player with much higher credentials.

Typically they go for a song.

What I read Injuries and at end of the Season Dogs thought he was not in there Best 22

 

[Port Magpie]

Lol and murray was what exactly ? A rookie listed player who never played a game.

But yet played in our team from the start - hence best 22

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I'd argue this is different given the original focus surrounded Lynch and May and we ended with a completely different approach being Beams.

That’s a fair take.

What we do not know is, the overall focus on which players were the real target, how many players were really targeted and the order of preference?

 

[manicmagpie]

Are you trying to address the strange fact that we appear to have gone a trade period without endless Tomlinson speculation on this board.

I knew something was missing this year!

 

[loki04]

But yet played in our team from the start - hence best 22

And didn't maintain a place in the 22. Hence fringe player.

 

[NT.Thunder]

That’s a fair take.

What we do not know is, the overall focus on which players were the real target, how many players were really targeted and the order of preference?

Yeah, I do believe that May was a target. I think we really had no choice but to take Beams. When fit he’s clearly A class and considering Brisbane fans are saying his body is banged up he did produce AA numbers last year especially late in the season.

It’s a scary midfield we carry especially when you include Grundy. Going to be some big numbers posted and I can really see Treloar taking another step

 

[jackcass]

Lol and murray was what exactly ? A rookie listed player who never played a game.

For whatever reason Roughy was struggling to get senior games this year, it seemed they preferred English with Boyd as back-up when they were available. Campbell also due to return this year. There has even been speculation Roughy may well have been delisted if he couldn't find a new home. Perhaps a better comparison for him would be Marley Williams.

 

[loki04]

??

The value of a trade is based around two clubs expected future value of the respective asset.

Not on exposed form.

Hence young players with untapped potential can still demand value in a trade, whilst a proven veteran who has fallen out of favour can be picked off the scrap heap.

That is why a unproven kid like Setterfield ‘cost’ more than a proven dual premiership player with 120 AFL games under his belt in Duryea.

Duryea has the credentials, but Setterfield has the potential...it is the future potential that dictates the trade currency.

Yes and the potential for a proven 27 yo premiership 200cm, 101kg versatile KPP to impact on the 22 is much greater then a bloke who spent half a year in the NEAFL in a new role off the rookie list after 18months floundering fwd.

Murray was a risk not a former first round 19 yo.

 

[Mukesh]

When are we going to let go of this draft Round 1,2,3 crap ? The second picks were allowed to be traded the whole Round construct went out the window. Just focus on the pick number...

Also, why do we need Quaynor ?

Also, Roughead has been seriously under valued by the football world for the last couple of years. Go back and watch the 2016 Bulldogs... he was a key part of their outfit all over the ground. IMHO we got an absolute bargain..

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

So Geelong have the Holy Trinity right? Danger, Ablett, Selwood?

Does Pendles, Sidebottom, Adams, Treloar, Beams, Sier and Phillips make it the Magnificent Seven?

 

[loki04]

For whatever reason Roughy was struggling to get senior games this year, it seemed they preferred English with Boyd as back-up when they were available. Campbell also due to return this year. There has even been speculation Roughy may well have been delisted if he couldn't find a new home. Perhaps a better comparison for him would be Marley Williams.

No they are a good compare, other then the fact Roughead has been there and proven he can do it.

Both players weren't getting senior games (Murray wasn't even emg listed).
Both players rumoured to be on the delist pile (Murrays rookie extension offer came only after our interest).

Williams i guess could also be used with pick 104 but for a player in his teams best 22 and not out of it.

 

[good4footy]

No, I don’t want a bid before any of our players. I’m just mentioning the fact that if we didn’t trade 18 this year, we could have picked up another elite talent along with Quaynor & Kelly.

....but if a pick does come then we would need to use it on Quaynor so we don't get an elite talent anyway. This way we get the best chance of getting an elite player (Beams) and also Quaynor & Kelly. The worst thing that can happen is we go into deficit but we still get all 3. It was actually a no brainer giving away this years first.

I was just hoping we would get it done with just a 2nd next year.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Yeah, I do believe that May was a target. I think we really had no choice but to take Beams. When fit he’s clearly A class and considering Brisbane fans are saying his body is banged up he did produce AA numbers last year especially late in the season.

It’s a scary midfield we carry especially when you include Grundy. Going to be some big numbers posted and I can really see Treloar taking another step

Mega on ball options.

The resting players can go forward like De Goey does but as support.

Imagine it

 

[NT.Thunder]

Mega on ball options.

The resting players can go forward like De Goey does but as support.

Imagine it

If you get first use of the ball than defenders are redundant - back 6 won't see the ball next year.

 

[jackcass]

No they are a good compare, other then the fact Roughead has been there and proven he can do it.

Both players weren't getting senior games (Murray wasn't even emg listed).
Both players rumoured to be on the delist pile (Murrays rookie extension offer came only after our interest).

But Williams i guess could also be used with pick 104 but for a player in his teams best 22 and not out of it.

I think you're emotionally over invested in the Murray thing. He wasn't getting games because the Swans have some of the best rebound defenders in the league in his way.

Roughy got 12 games this year mainly because their alternate ruck options like English got injured, Boyd battled injury issues all year, Campbell was out with an ACL, and Redpath had injury issues and retired earlier in the year, and that without even looking at his time spent in defence.

You're comparing a player on the out likely recruited as useful depth across multiple positions with a player seen to have potential and who filled a definite list need.

Anyway, I'll leave it there.

 

[doppleganger]

Yes and the potential for a proven 27 yo premiership 200cm, 101kg versatile KPP to impact on the 22 is much greater then a bloke who spent half a year in the NEAFL in a new role off the rookie list after 18months floundering fwd.

Murray was a risk not a former first round 19 yo.

Roughead is a veteran senior player, who fell out of favour and spent plenty of time at VFL level. When you are about to turn 28 that isn’t a good position to be in.

He was out of contract and the Bulldogs weren’t going to offer him a new contract...Collingwood gave him a life-line. He had no trade value as Dogs didn’t want him...best footy past him according to the Dogs.

Murray completely opposite, Collingwood obviously identified him as a player who had plenty of improvement in him and he had the potential to develop into a good senior footballer.

A 28 year old fringe player drifting between VFL isn’t a highly valued commodity.

A 20 year old kid with identified potential upside is a much more valuable asset.

Trades reflect that.

Who has better trade value, Blair or M.Lynch?

 

[sr36]

....but if a pick does come then we would need to use it on Quaynor so we don't get an elite talent anyway. This way we get the best chance of getting an elite player (Beams) and also Quaynor & Kelly. The worst thing that can happen is we go into deficit but we still get all 3. It was actually a no brainer giving away this years first.

I was just hoping we would get it done with just a 2nd next year.

But if that happened it wouldn't have involved picks back, good chance one or both will get a first round nomination, and we would have ended up going into first round points deficit and having our first rounder devalued to a second rounder anyway.

 

[ThePhantom777]

No one was complaining when he received a Rising Star nom at the start of the year

Nope it was 5 games in when he kept running into trouble like a chook with his head cut off. He was no Hawthorn left footer unfortunately.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I adopt a practical approach in such matters of trading; and roughly order my selections accordingly:

Is the player elite?
Is the player A grade?
I’d the player best 22?

(Is the player depth for position and cheap to no cost?)

Then target and get if currency there and ability to gain the player.

If we can’t, simply move on.

Re bargaining it should be roughly for fair cost or a little bit bit in our favour.

 

[ThePhantom777]

Mega on ball options.

The resting players can go forward like De Goey does but as support.

Imagine it

I assume our forward pocket is where we will rotate our mids like Treloar, Sidey, Beams and Sier.