List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2020

[Moore of the Same]

As I said, get him for nothing... ok...he'll kick 30 a season maybe. But to do that he'll need precise ball placement (kicking to him and him alone). To do it he'll also need 17 other clubs to relax their defensive zones so that he can make his 20-30m leads. He'll need every other Collingwood forward to block and hold for him whilst he leads straight at the ball carrier and then he'll need Daicos and Pendles to be the only players to make forward entries towards him.

BTW...I'm glad he's not Carey cos that slime would never be welcome at Collingwood, but its just that his style of play has been superseded in the past couple of years. Those leading types don't get the space to lead into any more.

Fair enough, Carey was a misstep. But I still think that's underselling the impact he could have. Second round pick to change our forward structure and give us a real target? I'm in.

 

[Moore of the Same]

the fact the he’s not being swamped with offers - so the only logical conclusion is that his knees are bad.
Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

We applied the same logic to Stevie J and that turned out brilliantly. What about Hawkins who was finished according to most 3 years ago? As far as not being swamped with offers goes, isn't ha being chased by the bombers and dees already?

 

[No SPIN]

Which part of he's 31, and he can barely get a game for a team much worse than us are you having trouble comprehending?

the part that says 31 is not the end of the road for a lot of players.

Now do your self a favour and look away from his age, and read some sensible posts here, about how he could be used and how the team can benefit.

You’re acting as if we’re offering him a $5 mill 5 year deal.
He’ll be on modest terms if he comes at all.

 

[HFF]

the part that says 31 is not the end of the road for a lot of players.

Now do your self a favour and look away from his age, and read some sensible posts here, about how he could used and how the team can benefit.

You’re acting as if we’re offering him a $5 mill 5 year deal.
He’ll be on modest terms if he comes at all.

Why not just invest in the kids?
to bring in a 31yr old....it’s just plain stupid

 

[Apex36]

North hired a second rate coach at the end of last year who has proven to know Jack all about coaching. So much so that the rumours are that North are looking for a senior coach to come in and oversee. They are a rabble and completely stupid. If nothing else, that is clear.

Rawlings is their head of football and he oversaw the rebuild at the Eagles that resulted in them winning the 2018 premiership. They’re currently a rabble but that guy is as far from stupid as you can get. He’ll happily cut anyone whom he believes to be dead weight, and that includes his brother who was an assistant coach at North this year. He’s also the one who has the final say in list management, not Shaw, so if he wants to get Brown off their books you’d better believe there’s good reason for it.

Didn't Brown and his wife lose a child this year? Adding on to the stress of the hubs situation as well as the injury concerns, not to mention that it would be almost impossible to get a kick in the North forwardline this year with their garbage midfield... is it any surprise that he underperformed?

Why is it more likely that Browns one average year, under these circumstances, is more indicative of his ability, than his previous three?

Honestly if this was all the case, then North wouldn’t be so eager to offload the bloke. The whole thing stinks, but people are so blinded by the desire for that elusive “60 goal a year key forward” they can’t see the situation for what it really is.

 

[Go Woods]

Collingwood: *has the worst KPF stock in the league*

Also Collingwood: “Let’s get a 31 small defender!”

F*** ME...........

 

[No SPIN]

We applied the same logic to Stevie J and that turned out brilliantly. What about Hawkins who was finished according to most 3 years ago? As far as not being swamped with offers goes, isn't ha being chased by the bombers and dees already?

For every Stevie J there’s been 100’s of sensible rejections.
If he was still capable of 60 goals per season don’t you think there’d more suitors than just Ess.

 

[TW Sherrin]

We applied the same logic to Stevie J and that turned out brilliantly. What about Hawkins who was finished according to most 3 years ago? As far as not being swamped with offers goes, isn't ha being chased by the bombers and dees already?

Hawkins is an interesting name. Out of contract and with Geelong appearing to love Cameron there is a chance to wedge Geelong on Hawkins by offering him a contract. Either Geelong match and it makes it harder to get Cameron or you get Hawkins.

 

[partypie]

Absolutely spot on ,Brown is a massive improvement over Cox. In fact so is Wright ,i would rather 2m Peter than 30m Cox

Yeah that's not a thing:

Mason Cox and Peter Wright AFL Stats Comparison

Mason Cox and Peter Wright AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Everyone calling for 2MP as our saviour in the forward line appears to be hanging onto those first two seasons and blithely ignoring the next three seasons where he A) missed a bunch of games due to injury, B) was underwhelming as the big banana after Lynch left and, C) this year where he never even got a game.

It's a bit of a head scratcher for mine, unless we're looking for another fwd/ruck whipping boy, in which case it might make some sense?

 

[neilk]

He is not a contested marking forward is the biggest load of crock and I’m seriously over everyone going down that narrative.

Ive already bought this up but I’ll do it again.

Brown’s contested marking numbers
2016 - 49 (5th in the league)
2017 - 43 (7th in the league)
2018 - 36 (12th in the league)
2019 - 35 (15th in the league)

So he’s been top 15 in the league for contested marking at over 2 a game for the best part of 4 years. He’s played most of his games at Marvel.

His MCG record is very good and we play most of our games at the G where there’s loads of space to lead into. What is the issue?
Lmao don’t see Mason Cox kicking 180+ goals over 3 years. The disrespect to Ben Brown is both bemusing and appalling.

I think they count a mark on the lead as a contested mark as a defender is usually hot on his hammer.

 

[No SPIN]

I have no doubt if a young Jetta equivalent was available, and prepared to take the same modest terms and at trade just as cheap, we’d get him.
But that’s not happening.
Also we have a lot of young guys who’ll get opportunities given how many older guys we’re losing.

 

[Seedsfan]

Rubbish - what we do off half back and through the middle is the cause of our poor ball movement. Nothing the forwards do will help when we have a 5-10 possession chain coming off half back which maybe makes it up to the opposite wing (if we're lucky).

As soon as we bite the bullet and push the ball forward with speed (or get a quick centre clearance) our forwards look a lot better because they don't have 3 or 4 opposition players rolling over and dropping into the space in front of the ball.

So why do we hold the ball up? We do it as nobody up the field is providing a target. That’s why we are looking to reinvent the forward line

 

[Moore of the Same]

For every Stevie J there’s been 100’s of sensible rejections.
If he was still capable of 60 goals per season don’t you think there’d more suitors than just Ess.

Given that Stevie ended up winning three flags after he was "cooked", surely there's room to take a risk on a guy who might only cost us a second round pick.

 

[Thefly38]

Hawkins is an interesting name. Out of contract and with Geelong appearing to love Cameron there is a chance to wedge Geelong on Hawkins by offering him a contract. Either Geelong match and it makes it harder to get Cameron or you get Hawkins.

Won’t leave Geelong

 

[jackcass]

2.44

Lol, you are just taking the p*** surely ,Browns goal averaged 2.4 ,Cox goal average 1.2 over the last 5 years no comparison.
and if anyone thinks we can get near a flag with Cox as our kpf then you need to stop taking whatever it is that's burning your brain out.

Yet over the same period the Pies have averaged 269 goals and 190 points a season v North's 252 goals and 182 points. Clearly having a KPF who kicks twice the goal average per game isn't the be all end all.

 

[Moore of the Same]

Rawlings is their head of football and he oversaw the rebuild at the Eagles that resulted in them winning the 2018 premiership. They’re currently a rabble but that guy is as far from stupid as you can get. He’ll happily cut anyone whom he believes to be dead weight, and that includes his brother who was an assistant coach at North this year. He’s also the one who has the final say in list management, not Shaw, so if he wants to get Brown off their books you’d better believe there’s good reason for it.

Honestly if this was all the case, then North wouldn’t be so eager to offload the bloke. The whole thing stinks, but people are so blinded by the desire for that elusive “60 goal a year key forward” they can’t see the situation for what it really is.

Was he the bloke that saw Shaw coach 5 games then hired him on a permanent basis? Then convinced himself that North we're a chance and decided not to sell high on their experienced players? The same guy who now has to concede that he was wrong, that his older players are worth less than before and is now staring at a rebuild?

Who knows and who cares why North are keen to offload him. Maybe they find that he can't work in Shaw's coaching system because its written in crayon. Maybe Brown was a huge Scott fan and was disenchanted when he was pushed out?

The variable that all those opposed to Brown are pointing to is "he's cooked". But there are a lot of factors that come into play that can effect player performance.

 

[No SPIN]

Given that Stevie ended up winning three flags after he was "cooked", surely there's room to take a risk on a guy who might only cost us a second round pick.

If the cost of the trade and cap is low enough I have no problem. But I suspect BB will want a price we’re not prepared to pay.

 

[Moore of the Same]

Hawkins is an interesting name. Out of contract and with Geelong appearing to love Cameron there is a chance to wedge Geelong on Hawkins by offering him a contract. Either Geelong match and it makes it harder to get Cameron or you get Hawkins.

Just couldn't see him leaving the Cats honestly and think he's more likely to take a pay cut and stay then look elsewhere.

 

[neilk]

Yet over the same period the Pies have averaged 269 goals and 190 points a season v North's 252 goals and 182 points. Clearly having a KPF who kicks twice the goal average per game isn't the be all end all.

Agree, Cox makes those around him better.

 

[Moore of the Same]

If the cost of the trade and cap is low enough I have no problem. But I suspect BB will want a price we’re not prepared to pay.

Then we are agreed. My argument isn't that he should be taken at all costs, just that he shouldn't be dismissed as someone who can't add value.

2nd round pick and 550-600 a year.

 

[danielnajdek]

Why are we offering a 31 year old who plays in the backline ( our backline is fine as it is ) a multi year deal.

We need a tall forward not more small backline players.

 

[DaVe86]

I have absolutely no problem recruiting 30+ year olds. Geelong has been doing it and they continue to be right at the pointy end of the ladder.

I just don't see why we would be chasing Neville Jetta given Quaynor has cemented himself in that spot. Plus we have Maynard, Crisp and Noble.

It's a concern that we lost to Geelong by 60 points in a final, and they are potentially getting Cameron, Crouch and Higgins...while we are more focussed on retaining players we already have on our list for much more money...and trading out players to free up cap room to keep them.

At some point, something has to give. It might mean a De Goey or Treloar makes way to free up cap space and have a crack at a genuine superstar key forward.

It's still very early days, and I remain hopeful there is a bit more going on behind the scenes that we are not privy too. I really think we need to be aggressive this trade period and bring in some fresh faces that can improve our list. We can't afford to keep coming 4th to 8th and falling short. At some point, you need to be bold. If our cap is that tight and we can't improve our list, then we are going to be stuck in no man's land.

 

[DaVe86]

Why are we offering a 31 year old who plays in the backline ( our backline is fine as it is ) a multi year deal.

We need a tall forward not more small backline players.

I don't see how recruiting a small defender rules out any chance of picking up a key tall. We can sign multiple players...and i doubt Jetta is going to come at a cost.

I'd be looking at a package of Jetta + Tom McDonald. The Dees are looking for wingmen, so sending Phillips back the other way could be an option along with a suitable picks. I'd like Tom McDonald as a full back. Beyond Roughead, the cupboard is bare for key defenders.

 

[Apex36]

Was he the bloke that saw Shaw coach 5 games then hired him on a permanent basis? Then convinced himself that North we're a chance and decided not to sell high on their experienced players? The same guy who now has to concede that he was wrong, that his older players are worth less than before and is now staring at a rebuild?

Rawlings officially started his tenure at North in December 2019...... so no.

Who knows and who cares why North are keen to offload him. Maybe they find that he can't work in Shaw's coaching system because its written in crayon. Maybe Brown was a huge Scott fan and was disenchanted when he was pushed out?

The variable that all those opposed to Brown are pointing to is "he's cooked". But there are a lot of factors that come into play that can effect player performance.

LOL, see this is what I’m talking about. “Who cares why they’re dumping him out the door on the cheap, he’s a gun key forward!!!1!” [Insert lame excuses why they’re doing it here]
Smh....

 

[HeadInTheSand]

the part that says 31 is not the end of the road for a lot of players.

You mean like Leon Davis? You know, the All-Australian defender who turned 30 halfway through the 2011 season and was then asked to take a 30% pay cut to play on?

Now do your self a favour and look away from his age, and read some sensible posts here, about how he could be used and how the team can benefit.

Any post that doesn't envisage a position for Jetta as orange boy isn't sensible. He can't get a game for a team much worse than Collingwood. Noble is too small and weak to be a midfielder, and Maynard has no right side and is prone to too many brain fades for the same.

It is a retrograde step in every possible way, and only blind loyalists like yourself would say otherwise.

You’re acting as if we’re offering him a $5 mill 5 year deal.

Given the appalling list management of this club, it wouldn't surprise me.