List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency Part 9

[_RT_]

 

[tigs2010]

Highest pick there was Lennon(13)
The rest late 1st too 2nd.Goodluck finding Elite talent around that mark.

Cripps literally went the next pick. As elite as it gets

 

[THE THIN MAN]

They're suggesting it because he's a slug.

I think you mean

 

[THE THIN MAN]

We’ve won nothing all year so would be nice to win trade week!

Everyone knows Essendon win trade week and North Melbourne always get the best young talent.

 

[poppa pump]

also i think everyone needs to realise, we have Chris Toce as our recruiter now. He has been St Kilda's recruiter the last 10 years.. and we all know how good their list has been ...
Mathew Clarke who was our recruiter making good picks like shai bolton at 29 was poached by west coast at the start of the year. WERE COOKED

Absolutely wrong,Clarke did OK without any magic,Francis Jackson was the guy who built half our list from rookie to very late picks, all done in a period where our earlier picks were taken away or horded by new clubs gws gcs.
Most of The time Toce was not the number 1 draft guy and saints last few years have 3 potential A graders ,all under 22 years of age.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Bolton and Rioli will go on our terms and there is nothing stopping us moving hopper on. Lynch being injured for 2 years really stuffed plans. I have not loved selection of role playing spuds but balance with plenty of kids getting getting games is a bonus

Moving Hopper on!!! For Gods sake, be realistic people. He signed for 7 years, he’s going nowhere

 

[tigerfan1961]

'Some' trading we will do. We don't have to give away guns for peanuts to do it.

Exactly right!!

 

[tigerfan1961]

Wtf? You can’t find an afl level player at pick 13? Piss off.


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Yeah Mate, I’m sure you could have. It’s not just Clarke, they have a recruiting team that looks at all the talent available.
Just watch Fox Footy on draft night and it’s abundantly clear it’s a group discussion on what player they select!!!
Reading this thread, hindsight recruiting is the way to go. It’s not like all clubs nail every draft but that doesn’t suit the sooky narrative of some I guess.
We are where we are at as that’s the cycle of life in the AFL world. You win premierships, you get the short end of the stick. We will be down for a year or three, but I’m certain we will rise again.
Imagine following the saints? Or Norf, Dees even. At least we saluted 3 times in our recent past.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Cripps literally went the next pick. As elite as it gets

Yep and how many clubs overlooked him before we did?????? But only we are hopeless at talent identification apparently

 

[Danog]

At the time ge wasn't otherwise he'd be top 5

WTF are you on about?

 

[tigs2010]

Yep and how many clubs overlooked him before we did?????? But only we are hopeless at talent identification apparently

I didn't say that did I? Someone said you can't get elite talent when literally the next pick is a Brownlow winner. FJ had the runs on the board so not going to pot him for missing one when he hit some huge home runs.

We are in a hole because Clarke was poor. No one expects a recruiter to hit every pick but it was certainly concerning how many outright busts he had. So many random picks plucked from obscurity and our list shows it. He's hit one home run in Balta and maybe Bolton (the latter hard to know given all the work that year was done under FJ and I doubt swapping who was in charge changed the order drastically but who knows)

Have a lot of faith in Toce, his 2 first rounders look good. Philippou has 24 & 1 goal while his team is getting absolutely belted. Wilson had a great first season, starting to tire now. They were pick 10 & 18 and look potential stars or at worst at least AFL best 22 quality. Clarke's similar picks to Wilson are delisted (RCD), probably delisted (Dow) and a maybe (Brown).

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Wtf? You can’t find an afl level player at pick 13? Piss off.


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Well we did later on with Higgins.
But anyway go through the draft history of all sides and they'd be misses everywhere.
Don't understand why you think we'd be immune too it.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I didn't say that did I? Someone said you can't get elite talent when literally the next pick is a Brownlow winner.

That was me.i pursume your talking about Fyfe?
How much is that about luck though.
At the time even Emma Qualle didn't have Fyfe in the 1st rnd.

 

[docko911]

Cripps literally went the next pick. As elite as it gets

This ****up doesn’t get talked about enough. We literally needed a big inside midfielder and we went out and drafted a mid-sized half forward flanker, a position that basically doesn’t exist in the AFL (especially if the player doesn’t have pace).

 

[NaturalDisaster]

This ****up doesn’t get talked about enough. We literally needed a big inside midfielder and we went out and drafted a mid-sized half forward flanker, a position that basically doesn’t exist in the AFL (especially if the player doesn’t have pace).

Why talk about it now? It was 11 years ago and Cripps is almost 30 now, literally no point dwelling on it.

 

[jthanos]

Moving Hopper on!!! For Gods sake, be realistic people. He signed for 7 years, he’s going nowhere

We move Hopper on? Good luck on getting any other free-agents in the future. We just have to make it work !

 

[tigersnag]

I wonder if GWS Irishman Callum Brown would be a good trade target. Not sure if he's injured but he did get dropped a few weeks back.
Seen a few GWS games and he's very underrated.

 

[docko911]

Why talk about it now? It was 11 years ago and Cripps is almost 30 now, literally no point dwelling on it.

Probably because we are entering a draft with a lot of midfield depth after having multiple seasons of getting smashed in the midfield. I don’t want to see anymore left of field picks, I want to see 3-4 young midfielders drafted in the top 30.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

This ****up doesn’t get talked about enough. We literally needed a big inside midfielder and we went out and drafted a mid-sized half forward flanker, a position that basically doesn’t exist in the AFL (especially if the player doesn’t have pace).

Wasn’t really a **** up. Cripps was rated outside the top 20 by most. Only Carlton’s recruiter loved him.

Cripps was literally the only pick this guy got right.


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[SplintWhisky]

Cripps literally went the next pick. As elite as it gets

Jack also went at around 13 didnt he?

 

[tigs2010]

Jack also went at around 13 didnt he?

Yep. Rance 18. Shedda 26. FJ picked a few

 

[sregit]

That's we're the problem is no first round last 2 years and our first pick in the forties. Club sold the bank on Taranto and Hopper that was the horrible decision.

Taranto was not a horrible decision. He was BNF last year and has been okay this year. It’s Hopper that has been tied in with Taranto deal that has made both deals look bad. He been out for many games and crap when he has played. Separate the two.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Well we did later on with Higgins.
But anyway go through the draft history of all sides and they'd be misses everywhere.
Don't understand why you think we'd be immune too it.

We’ve missed 5 time for every hit. We currently hold the spoon. Our recruitment inside 30 is horrendous and that’s now a fact.

Saying our first round picks weren’t high ones is just a cop out. We should still expect a basic level afl player at these picks, instead they’ve managed the almost statistically impossible. Higgins and average small forward is the best they managed.


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[Meteoric Rise]

We’ve missed 5 time for every hit. We currently hold the spoon. Our recruitment inside 30 is horrendous and that’s now a fact.

Saying our first round picks weren’t high ones is just a cop out. We should still expect a basic level afl player at these picks, instead they’ve managed the almost statistically impossible. Higgins and average small forward is the best they managed.


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History of our rd 1 picks under Clarke:

2016 we took no 1st round pick.

2017 we took Higgins and Coleman-Jones and basically got our money back on both of them when traded out. So those are not failures.

2018 we took Collier-Dawkins at pick 20. Failure.

2019 we took Dow at pick 21. Failure.

2020 we took no first round pick.

2021 we took Gibcus and Brown with first round picks and both look very promising based on the footy we have seen from them.

2022 we took no first round pick.

2023 we took no first round pick.

So the whole premise of Clarke failing with his rd 1 picks boils down to a failed pick 20 and a failed pick 21 versus what look genuinely promising players at picks 9 and 17.

We traded 3 x rd 1 picks for Prestia, Taranto and Hopper. This policy can hardly be said to be in deficit overall.



History of drafting and trading of pick ranges under Clarke:

Pick ranges:

1-10 Gibcus 9 (+trades for Prestia 7, Hopper 8)

We appear to have got good value for these picks 1-10 overall

11-20 Collier-Dawkins 20, Brown 17(+ trade for Taranto 14) (Higgins 17 and Coleman-Jones 20 were neutral results)

We appear to have got good value for these picks 11-20 overall

21-30 Balta 25 Bolton 29 Dow 21 Sonsie 28 Banks 29 Clarke 30 (+trades for Caddy 26, Taranto 22)

We appear to have got brilliant value for these picks overall

31-40 Naish 34 McAuliffe 40(too early to tell) (+ trades for Hopper 34, Prestia 38)

tougher to judge, certainly not a wipeout, McAuliffe will swing this either way.

41-50 Ross 43, Cumberland 43, W Martin 44, Ralphsmith 46, Ryan 40, Kaleb Smith 49, Fawcett 43(+ pick 47 traded for Koschitzke)

Mixture but we look a decent chance to get at least 3 long term players from that lot.

Later picks during Clarke's tenure in charge, amongst many misses have secured us:

Graham, Stengle, Miller, Baker, Pickett, M Rioli, Mansell, Green, Campbell, Young, Trezise, Lefau

Plus several players we can't get a proper line on yet:

Hayes-Brown, Colina, Bauer.

I have bolded all the recruits we can see in hindsight were good use of the picks. There are already 23 of those from 8 drafts and a couple more will emerge, probably amounting to about 16 players that would be in our best 22 at any given time.

Our VFL system has also recruited players who are doing well at other clubs: Durham, D'Ambrosio, Mannagh, along with Young, Trezise on our list.

Part of our issue is we recruited too many good players and could not fit them all in, and finishing too high up the ladder meant we got trumped on a couple of our best VFL guys. We lost Ellis, Stengle, Markov, Chol, Coleman-Jones, Butler, Higgins and likely Durham and D'Ambrosio because we were too good a team and for no other reason. We only got a dividend out of Higgins and CCJ - and then only enough to repay the picks with which they were taken. So had we simply been a weaker team through the period these guys were recruited, we probably hold them all and obviously got access to some very high value picks and then if we just got the expected return for those, added to all of the above, you would say our recruiting under Clarke brained it.

How anyone could describe this as a failed recruiting regime is beyond me. There is a reason a very strong club in West Coast has taken Matthew Clarke as its list manager. They are not idiots.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

History of our rd 1 picks under Clarke:

2017 we took Higgins and Coleman-Jones

2018 we took Collier-Dawkins at pick 20

2019 we took Dow at pick 21

Whatever way you want to sugarcoat it, these are not examples of success.

If Clarke repeats these failures for 2017 - 2019 at West Coast, he will be unemployed, beggars' belief that he still had a job after this.

 

[_RT_]

What I can see happening as opposed to what many want to see happen.

Baker & Graham to WCE.

Baker nets us a 2024 R2 & 2025 R2 pick. Graham compo is band 3 (currently pick 22)

Bolton requests a trade to Fremantle and we get their 2 best 2024 R1 picks which is currently pick 8 from Pies, and their own 2024 R1 pick which is currently 13. Those picks combined value Bolton at pick 2 in a single trade, which is fair value.

I know everyone wants 3 x R1 picks for Bolton but I don't see it happening. The club will not want to look like pricks by playing hard ball when the request is made on compassionate grounds. If the roles were reversed none of us would be happy seeing us give up 3 R1 picks for 1 player.

Suns will come for Daniel but he will stay close to family with Maurice already at the cub and Maria Rioli likely to join in the AFLW draft.

As far as retirements go I believe we will see announcements shortly for Grimes Martin & Naismith.

I believe we will give 1 year deals to Prestia McIntosh & Pickett to keep some maturity and leadership around. I also believe that we will re-sign Trezise Smith Maurice Lefau Campbell Green Dow Blight & Gray.

That would see the list changes for this off season as:

Retired: Grimes Martin Naismith
Trade/Free Agency: Baker Bolton Graham
Delisted: Colina Coulthard Cumberland

Draft Picks:
1, 8, 13, 21, 22, 23, 36, 39, 41, 54, 57, 63 & 68

Those in Italics available to trade up into R1 and/or R2 picks or 2025 picks.

2025 picks based on the above would be:

R1: Richmond
R2: Richmond and WCE
R3: Richmond
R4: Richmond

If the above was to pan out along those lines I believe we'll have done well, not ideal, but good enough to kick start the rebuild.

Oh and I know richoatthedisco doesn't like this already

Edited due to tigs2010 providing information regarding Fremantle 2025 picks.