List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 4

[guruisatiger]

A prison cell.

No not big orange man

 

[sregit]

I meant we trade them 17 back as a live trade after FS bidding is matched.


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I was aware what you meant. I think this is a possibility. It would be okay by me also.

 

[Tiger1974]

All the posters constantly chiming in saying CJ is worth 20 need to realise what that CJ is "worth" and what we will get for him are two completely different things due to North holding pick one in the PSD.

We all know he's worth more than they're offering - he's a former pick 20 KPP/ruck with flexibility, on a $2 million contract with four years worth of development and has shown enough to poll Brownlow votes from limited games in his debut season. Clearly he's worth a lot.

But you need to factor in bargaining power. North have more leverage than us because they can afford to offer him stupid money which we can't match, and they hold pick 1 in the PSD. They're offering him this stupid money because they know we can't match it and we'll have to accept a lower pick than his actual "worth" with the threat of no compensation looming over our head if we don't accept. They can afford the financial cost and are willing to pay it to pick him up cheaply in terms of draft capital. So what he's "worth", and what we get are not the same thing due to bargaining power.

BHP shares are "worth" 35 bucks but if I have a stock option to buy them for 20 I'm always gonna use it to pick them up on the cheap...

The best we can hope for is that they negotiate in good faith and offer up something between his actual "worth" and the mooted pick 40 but they're almost definitely going to get him for significant unders in terms of draft capital because of their bargaining power. But take some solace that they're taking a big financial risk to do so.

all the posters constantly chiming in about the option of CJ leaving via the PSD need to realise the player, manager, and both clubs Do Not Want This. It may be an option but it is not an option to all parties involved.

 

[Damo80]

If the threat of the PSD is enough to mean we don't get value for CCJ, then surely it applies to the Swans expecting value for Dawson. Expect crows to get him with pick 23 and doubt they're going to look to split pick 4.

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[Bojangles17]

If the threat of the PSD is enough to mean we don't get value for CCJ, then surely it applies to the Swans expecting value for Dawson. Expect crows to get him with pick 23 and doubt they're going to look to split pick 4.

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Dawson’s not worth <23 . That’s very fair value

 

[cairo tiger]

dont rate parker tbh

 

[NZ_Tiger]

dont rate parker tbh

He’s been ****ing awful.


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[Joe Exotic]

all the posters constantly chiming in about the option of CJ leaving via the PSD need to realise the player, manager, and both clubs Do Not Want This. It may be an option but it is not an option to all parties involved.

Never said either club wants him to go to the PSD...it's always a last resort but you'd have to have your head buried in the sand to think that it doesn't give North leverage and that a straight swap for pick 20 is realistic. Jack Martin says hello.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Wish you were being just as sarcastic when you said we should cuck up and accept pick 38.

Geez mate get your hand off it. Don’t take a footy trade so personally. Your life will not be affected by it one bit.

 

[Coach_Required]

Who else is bored sh!tless with the constant barrage of grown men sitting down with Lore's spreadsheet calculating an infinite amount of pick bundling to gain lower picks in the draft?????? Funny thing is anytime someone suggests an actual trade for a fringe player like Rhylee West or Will Brodie etc they get shot down. People forget Bachar Houli, Grigg and Nankervis were all fringe players before we got them. Leon Cameron and Greg Dear were castoffs because their club's thought their injuries were career ending but they turned out to be astute pickups. ( For the young kiddies and the bandwagonners who jumped on recently Leon Cameron was a gun who could kick either side better than the whole comp these days and Greg Dear was a battle worn Ruckman on his last legs who helped the kids immensely for 3 years especially during our 95 finals). It's 2 months until the draft who else wants the pick swap scenarios moved elsewhere as it's doing my head in.

Getting fringe players on the cheap is all well and good but it will mean we have one less spot on our list to draft.

As much as all the pick swapping posts drive you nuts, it's our best bet to use our massive draft hand to move up in the order and draft some top tiered kids.

 

[prodigy]

Parker is depth and that's all he should be judged as.
We will have plenty in line to replace him in 2022.

 

[Tigers Time]

Is that generally the standard of the WAFL?

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Is that generally the standard of the WAFL?

Pretty much. Better level of elite talent though. I’d take WA kids over SA kids any day.


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[sregit]

Pretty much. Better level of elite talent though. I’d take WA kids over SA kids any day.


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This year I agree that the W.A. kids appear better than the SA kids, however, that is not always the case.

 

[4tune8]

I was aware what you meant. I think this is a possibility. It would be okay by me also.

Can't do it, the rules changed after the Swans did a similar thing a couple of years ago.

 

[docko911]

Can't do it, the rules changed after the Swans did a similar thing a couple of years ago.

Good old Sydney getting the benefits before they change rules, like when they stockpiled picks late to match Heeney without having list spots.

 

[petro12]

dont rate parker tbh

Got shot from this group when I brought it up the other week. He’s not AFL material, am still surprised we picked him up in the mid season let alone retained him for another year

 

[richoatthedisco]

Who else is bored sh!tless with the constant barrage of grown men sitting down with Lore's spreadsheet calculating an infinite amount of pick bundling to gain lower picks in the draft?????? Funny thing is anytime someone suggests an actual trade for a fringe player like Rhylee West or Will Brodie etc they get shot down. People forget Bachar Houli, Grigg and Nankervis were all fringe players before we got them. Leon Cameron and Greg Dear were castoffs because their club's thought their injuries were career ending but they turned out to be astute pickups. ( For the young kiddies and the bandwagonners who jumped on recently Leon Cameron was a gun who could kick either side better than the whole comp these days and Greg Dear was a battle worn Ruckman on his last legs who helped the kids immensely for 3 years especially during our 95 finals). It's 2 months until the draft who else wants the pick swap scenarios moved elsewhere as it's doing my head in.

Just put _RT_ on ignore.

Or go for a walk.

Jack is listed as 195cm tall. Im sure that 3cm difference doesn't matter a whole lot.

Jack was listed as 195cm for years, now he's listed at 193, and having stood face to face with him, 193 would be his absolute max. Not sure why he lied about his height other than the prejudice some might have like the poster you responded to saying "only" 192 is not tall enough. Charles Barkley was "only" 194 and is one of the great power forwards in history. Curnow's tall enough, especially for CHF which is more about running than hitting your head on the ceiling.

Anyway, we're not getting him. So, let's trade picks 38, 41, 45, our future third, Dusty's second illegitimate daughter and Ralph Carr's merkin to Norf for pick 1.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

This is a road to perdition imo. I'd rather see players only able to be traded in or out when they're coming out of contract. What's happening is clubs can just sign any player on any old massive amount (some of these contracts are ridiculous) and take the punt that it will be a success. Then, if it all goes south (Coniglio for example) it's now viable to just salary dump the player onto someone else. When there's no consequences for big mistakes, recruiters are emboldened to do crazy deals, knowing there's a get out of jail card. The next step is creative bookkeeping and ventures into negative trades or the type of smoke and mirrors being explored by North and the Suns.

That's a crazy and unsustainable way of doing business. You more than likely end up with everyone making ill considered, short term decisions trying to play the system and then wriggling out of them when they go sour, potentially making the whole competition unstable and irrational.

So ultimately contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on and you can say welcome to the "players are just a commodity" era rubbish we see from other sports, in the US primarily. Australian Rules Football is our indigenous game and its unique, right down to the grass roots. It's not American and this attitude that all (sporting) things American are better has to stop. Why ?

Because it's bs. Clubs run like corporations or worse, private playthings of dodgy "entrepreneurs". We've seen how that went and we walked away with fingers singed. Players treated like pawns, player managers acting like superstars. They aren't superstars, they're just player managers.

If we continue down this road, the integrity of the competition is further eroded and right now it's lower than I've ever seen in my 50y enjoying the game.

Whilst it's fun for us sitting at home "managing" our teams, when the rules get bent and stretched and loopholed until the product you end up with, doesn't reflect the product you started with or intended to create, then you end up cannibalising the unique and special product we love.

Leave the rules alone. That goes for all the rules. Be slow and considered to making changes and stop clubs straying into the unethical. If it smells bad, it's because it's off.

THIS...

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Good old Sydney getting the benefits before they change rules, like when they stockpiled picks late to match Heeney without having list spots.

I've got a query about that - most of these statements are questions, even the ones without the question marks.

Let's assume we traded three picks to the Dogs for their one, leaving them with say 6 picks for the draft. They would then be required to have 6 list spots available on entering the draft. Of course, they then bundle up 3 of those picks for Darcy in the first 5 minutes of the draft, leaving them with 3 draft picks, but 5 vacant list spots. How are they then expected to fill those last two list spots? Is it expected they upgrade rookies, or trade 2022 picks into 2021? What's the story?

 

[Muddiemoose]

I've got a query about that - most of these statements are questions, even the ones without the question marks.

Let's assume we traded three picks to the Dogs for their one, leaving them with say 6 picks for the draft. They would then be required to have 6 list spots available on entering the draft. Of course, they then bundle up 3 of those picks for Darcy in the first 5 minutes of the draft, leaving them with 3 draft picks, but 5 vacant list spots. How are they then expected to fill those last two list spots? Is it expected they upgrade rookies, or trade 2022 picks into 2021? What's the story?

I can’t remember the name of it but the loophole that allows players to train with teams during the pre season in order to join the list

We used this system to pick up stack and we had two list spots available this year that we used to pick up Mansell and give Egg another go

 

[_RT_]

Just put _RT_ on ignore.

Or go for a walk.

What the **** was I thinking trying to generate some sort of trade and free agency chat.

Perhaps I should just sit there and label every player who isn't an out and out gun a spud and suggest people should give themselves uppercuts for even daring to mention them.

Or maybe I should constantly suggest that our one proven KPD should be played up forward, I'm sure that will be a terrific discussion point.

 

[jthanos]

Got shot from this group when I brought it up the other week. He’s not AFL material, am still surprised we picked him up in the mid season let alone retained him for another year

Hack footballer at best, I agree !!!

 

[richoplzbreed]

Getting fringe players on the cheap is all well and good but it will mean we have one less spot on our list to draft.

As much as all the pick swapping posts drive you nuts, it's our best bet to use our massive draft hand to move up in the order and draft some top tiered kids.

Blind Freddie knows we're going to bundle up picks and hopefully bend over the club/ clubs we deal with. My point is there's 50,000 hypothetical variations on potential ways of doing it. Unless someone has a poster of Sheldon from big bang on their wall I'm pretty sure 99% of people who come on here have zero interest in reading all these scenarios. Fact of the matter is there's talented players out there who can't get a game that could potentially destroy it at punt Rd.

 

[richoplzbreed]

Here's a blast from the past. We got Chris Bond with pick 23 in 1993 preseason draft. Was a pretty good servant for us won a BnF played state of origin. Bundled him up with pick 21 for freos pick 2 which we used on Ottens. Looked like Richo and Ottens would lead us to a flag until Ottens repeatedly getting injured and even falling off a ladder and Vlad the impaling himself on a tree stake. From memory he was on $600k for a few years on potential whilst hardly playing. Whilst uncontacted he swore he loved Tiges and was going nowhere. Club asks him rightly to take a pay cut. His response is adios muchachos. We get offered picks and one of the Corey's for Ottens but that imbecile in charge takes picks 12 and 16 which nets us a couple of spuds in Meyer and Pattison. We went from a turd of a pick and turned it into pure gold in Ottens then back into a turd. The club really needs to look outside the box and employ someone who's brilliant and ruthless at negotiating. I really don't wanna see RCD or Dow going next to GC for a 3rd rounder.