List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[Marcel Proust]

It's probably best-case-scenario Pick 7 going to Geelong. They're not likely to be competing for flags in 4-5 years when a high draft pick from 2022 really starts to mature.

Good on them for cashing in with a flag while all their old blokes are in their last couple of years, but the cliff is looming big time for the Cats. And their youthful demographic has been neglected pretty badly - their midfield, ruck and forward line is really think for quality Under 28's.

Tbf they have been in finals for 20 years or whatever bar a couple.

Pick7 after a flag is bonkers and unacceptable

 

[Rubber Hips]

Bucky's assessment of our list. Most of his opinions are pretty sound but misses the mark on rating our young talent and only rates Prestia a B grader

Meatball would have been vying for the Brownlow without an interrupted season, is a gun. We have been drafting young talent, don't see us falling off the cliff with the improvement of Sonsie, Gibcus, Maurice Rioli, Balta, Bolton (can lift his game another level still), Cumbo Hugo and Clarke, Banks and Brown look promising.



Richmond underachieved again this season.

Given the top-end strength of their list on paper, the Tigers should have been a top-four side enjoying the double chance this September. They boast as much A-grade talent as just about any side in the league – a total of 27 A, B-grade and rising star players. It makes me question whether the hunger and appetite is still there. Time is marching on for this group.

The age demographic of the list is a worry. There is a real concern with the age of this group that it could drop off very quickly.
With their top-end talent, a fair amount is going to disappear over the next year or two and if there’s nothing coming through, it could spell trouble.
Right now, the number of developing players on the Tigers’ list is skinny. They have already bid farewell to a trio of premiership stars in Shane Edwards, Kane Lambert and Josh Caddy this year. Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt will continue next season, as will Dustin Martin, despite the speculation about his future.

Cotchin will turn 33 next year and Riewoldt is 34 next month, but I still rate both of them as A-graders. They have earned that rating for consistent performance over a long period of time, but at a club level you are probably not relying on them to win games for you any more. The former captain is not having the influence he once had and Riewoldt’s output is also not what it used to be, but the Tigers are obviously trying to hang on to retain their list depth. It would not surprise if their games were managed next year – they might have talked about playing 10-15 matches – and that’s why they probably accepted having a cut to their salary.

The pursuit of GWS pair Jacob Hopper and Tim Taranto shows the Tigers do not have any immediate plans to enter a youth-led reinvigoration of their list and that they plan to hang on with the current group to try and win another flag. The Giants’ pair, who have both nominated Punt Rd as their preferred trade destination, can help re-energise Richmond’s midfield.

Shai Bolton has assumed the mantle as the Tigers’ new superstar in Martin’s disrupted year. He has elevated his game to another level and is getting a bit of attention, but is handling it well and has taken on that A-grade rating because of that.

There are several Tigers on the fringe of the A-grade ratings who just missed the cut. Daniel Rioli has had quite a consistent season after moving to a new role at half-back, but I would like to see him have another year like that and he would then push himself into the A-grade category.

Jayden Short is also probably on the borderline of being an A-grade player. If I was doing B-plus, he would have had that rating. His output is strong and he is a dangerous player because he is such a beautiful kick.

Dion Prestia is another, but he is 30 next month and is always seems to be battling soft-tissue injury problems. He has the ability to be an A-grader but because he has lacked that consistency in his game due to his body breakdowns, he is rated as a B-grader.

Noah Balta is only 22 and has got real athleticism, but he drops out of games too often. If he could get himself a bit fitter and find a bit more of an engine, he is a powerful player and could be an A-grade player of the future.

Of the rising stars, I think Josh Gibcus will develop into a ripper, Maurice Rioli Jr has shown some class and is another future A-grader, and Tyler Sonsie is showing enough at the level and should elevate himself to at least B-grade in time.

HOW THE RATINGS WORK

At a club level, player ranking is generally based on gradings of A+, A, B+, B, C+, C and the developing players.

My rankings will focus on A, B, C and for the developing 20-year-old and under players will be rated as rising stars (RS) and those that need more time (NMT).

With the younger players, it is important to consider who is coming through and those who need longer to develop.

The most important areas for clubs to look at is how many A and B ranked players they have as well as the rising stars, who I believe should be A and B-grade players in the future.

RATING THE LIST

A

Nick Vlastuin, 28

Dylan Grimes, 30

Dustin Martin, 30

Liam Baker, 24

Jack Riewoldt, 33

Trent Cotchin, 32

Tom Lynch, 29

Toby Nankervis, 27

Shai Bolton, 23

B

Dion Prestia, 29

Jack Ross, 21

Robbie Tarrant, 33

Jason Castagna, 25

Jayden Short, 26

Jake Aarts, 27

Daniel Rioli, 25

Noah Balta, 22

Riley Collier-Dawkins, 22

Kamdyn McIntosh, 28

Jack Graham, 24

Nathan Broad, 29

Noah Cumberland, 21

Marlion Pickett, 30

Developing (20 years and under)

Rising stars

Josh Gibcus, 19

Tyler Sonsie, 19

Hugo Ralphsmith, 20

Maurice Rioli, 19

Needs more time

Thomson Dow, 20

Tom Brown, 18

Sam Banks, 19

Judson Clarke, 18

Jacob Bauer, 19

Retired: Shane Edwards, Josh Caddy, Kane Lambert, Matthew Parker

Delisted: None yet

LIST BREAKDOWN

A-Grade: 9

B-Grade: 14

C-Grade: 8

Developing (20 years and under)

Rising stars: 4

Need more time: 5

LIST NEEDS

Age is catching up quickly with this group. The Tigers will need to reinvigorate the list with some young talent sooner rather than later. The lack of rising stars and players that need more time in their development phase – nine in total – is far too thin.

In a strong 2022 draft, the Tigers should be looking to try to add some top-40 selections. There are 10 players on the list who will be in the 29-34 age bracket next season and I feel the list is long overdue for a freshen up. The defence is the biggest area of concern, with players breaking down in key positions. I consider Robbie Tarrant only a short-term player – his body hasn’t been great – and co-captain Dylan Grimes has also had his injury troubles. Tarrant turns 34 next year and Grimes will be turning 32. Noah Balta could turn into that powerful, key-position defender – I would keep him down back rather than switching him between defence and the forward line – while Gibcus can take a key backline post in time.

If Ivan Soldo leaves in the trade period a developing ruckman could be on the wish list given Samson Ryan and Mate Colina have played one AFL game between them and the lost Callum Coleman-Jones and Mabior Chol last year.

THE GIANT COUP

My focus would be to bring in young talent rather than trading out picks for experienced players, but the opportunity to land a prime pair such as Giants’ midfielders Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper is one the Tigers can’t pass up. They will be 25 and 26 next year, so they are still going to deliver plenty of upside.

Adding those two players is definitely going to give the Tigers more midfield strength, but it is also going to require a reasonable outlay. It is probably going to cost Richmond two first-round picks – one this year and one next year – and possibly a second or a third-round pick somewhere along the line to get it done, which reduces the opportunity to bring in young talent at the draft. Spreading it over two years makes sense, it’s just a matter of working out the combination of picks they are going to have to give up to get the deals done.

But it is a strong draft and fairly deep, so if they could keep their second or third pick, that is still going to net them a reasonable player. That is what I would be aiming for, trying to get a good young player as well as Taranto and Hopper.

Seven-year deals for me are too much, ideally it would be five. Seven pushes them to 32, 33 years of age and we know that’s when bodies start to break down, so you are playing with a bit of fire. But they would be bringing in two good players that are going to help their cause now, and they can worry about the future down the track.

Soldo has been mentioned as a player who could be part of a trade and Riley Collier-Dawkins is yet to re-sign, but I rate him and wouldn’t let him go. A former pick 20, he hasn’t cemented his spot in the team yet but given the age imbalance of the list the Tigers should hang onto their best young midfield prospect.

Has no clue this bloke…pfft…

prestia and George B


get off the grass Brah

 

[Rubber Hips]

I think we should get Bowes and pick 7 and De Goey.

In 2023 we tank the first six games , jack the odds up, win the rest including the GF and * everyone else.

The game is a scam anyway, after 2022, everyone should know it

This is your best post ever

 

[RJK Tiger]

seriously wtf is going on with this league?

How the F can the 12th placed side that has never made the finals in their life be about to salary dump a player along with pick 7 to the Premiership side?

I am a BIG BIG BIG believer that all AFL contracts should be public knowledge like every other big league oversea's. I legit want to see how a club like Geelong has been able to manage their Salary cap for the past of 2 decades now while poaching the highest FA talent in Dangerfield, Cameron, Dalhause, Higgins and not ever get themselves into cap trouble - while other clubs just continually struggle with it?

Its time to stop all this gray and secret stuff in the AFL - the league is just way too dodgy for that now. Everything should be transparent.

I was listening to the Port recruiter today and clubs just have NFI what type of compo they are going to get until its way too late. Its all bullshit

 

[tigs2010]

Win-win

Yeah win-win as in Richmond win on the Taranto trade and win on the Hopper trade

 

[Rubber Hips]

The Richmond board is easily the worst on Bigfooty during trade period.

Some of the stuff on here... Gee whiz.

like you I can’t stand the whinging….

 

[Punt rd end]

seriously wtf is going on with this league?

How the F can the 12th placed side that has never made the finals in their life be about to salary dump a player along with pick 7 to the Premiership side?

I am a BIG BIG BIG believer that all AFL contracts should be public knowledge like every other big league oversea's. I legit want to see how a club like Geelong has been able to manage their Salary cap for the past of 2 decades now while poaching the highest FA talent in Dangerfield, Cameron, Dalhause, Higgins and not ever get themselves into cap trouble - while other clubs just continually struggle with it?

Its time to stop all this gray and secret stuff in the AFL - the league is just way too dodgy for that now. Everything should be transparent.

I was listening to the Port recruiter today and clubs just have NFI what type of compo they are going to get until its way too late. Its all bullshit

Someone buys them farms or property

 

[RJK Tiger]

He's owed 1.65m over the next 2 seasons.

We aren't in the race no matter how much people want pick 7 - move on.

Would you trade Graham & Castagna for pick 7 & Bowes? Essentially you would think both of those guys contracts would equate to Bowes + a rookie contract.

I personally would. I would actually rather get only 1 of the GWS blokes, Bowes, Pick 7 & keep multiple of our own first, 2nd rounders

wont happen as we are coaching and playing only for the now, which i know will bite us in the arse. Firm believer that Taranto & Hopper are unlikely to push us over the top over the next 2 years. With GS giving away blue chip picks for basically free - its a prime time for us to do a super quick rebuild.

Including last years haul of picks, we essentially could work this so that end up with 14 picks inside the top 30 over a 3 year period - it would set us up for the next decade without ever having to bottom out completely.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Someone buys them farms or property

my thoughts exactly

I want the contracts public so we can look at it and say - how can you only pay player X $200k etc

You gotta ask the question, its beyond mental at this point

 

[prodigy]

It's hilarious how we keep putting Castagna in trade scenarios.
He has no value people.

 

[Calcium Man]

Tbf they have been in finals for 20 years or whatever bar a couple.

Pick7 after a flag is bonkers and unacceptable

It’s perfectly acceptable. Brisbane just made a prelim and are getting pick 1, dogs made a granny and got pick 3 (was that what Darcy went?).

What’s not acceptable is blaming Geelong for GC being a mess. That’s on the AFL and GC.

But there is always going to be unfair shit in the AFL, the fixture, home ground advantage, wealth/power of clubs, academies etc… let’s not punish or pay out the clubs who navigate this shit, instead demand better of the other clubs.

 

[RJK Tiger]

It's hilarious how we keep putting Castagna in trade scenarios.
He has no value people.

If we took a 5th rounder for him to just clear the cap, i can assure you someone like Essendon, Nth would take him. What he does do there are more than few clubs still need, and ultimately he has 3 flags and 15 finals to his name, which is useful for teams that have not won a final for 200 years. Plus he is only 25 still. he aint old, plenty of time to turn it around

low risk / high reward for a club that has been stuck in the dweller.

 

[RJK Tiger]

It’s perfectly acceptable. Brisbane just made a prelim and are getting pick 1, dogs made a granny and got pick 3 (was that what Darcy went?).

What’s not acceptable is blaming Geelong for GC being a mess. That’s on the AFL and GC.

But there is always going to be unfair s**t in the AFL, the fixture, home ground advantage, wealth/power of clubs, academies etc… let’s not punish or pay out the clubs who navigate this s**t, instead demand better of the other clubs.

lol he isn't blaming Geelong for GC being a mess - he is raising valid suspicion how the **** Geelong can afford it when the 12th team can'[t. Their cap stinks to high hell & has for over a decade now, with more than a few stories of shady land developments in that area being granted etc.

I have no issue with a club benefiting from a Salary dump due to GC stupidity - but how that can end up being Geelong is beyond believeable at this point.

Who is leaving their club to make that space? Higgins? who else?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Would you trade Graham & Castagna for pick 7 & Bowes? Essentially you would think both of those guys contracts would equate to Bowes + a rookie contract.

I personally would. I would actually rather get only 1 of the GWS blokes, Bowes, Pick 7 & keep multiple of our own first, 2nd rounders

Lol, they're not going to go to all the trouble of trading out $800k/year by offloading a premo draft pick to sweeten it, and then immediately bring in $800k+ worth of players from elsewhere.

Defeats the whole purpose.

 

[Mr Magic]

If we took a 5th rounder for him to just clear the cap, i can assure you someone like Essendon, Nth would take him. What he does do there are more than few clubs still need, and ultimately he has 3 flags and 15 finals to his name, which is useful for teams that have not won a final for 200 years

One would even consider trading Castagna and Mansell and trade pick 30 with them just to clear the cap, get 7 and Bowes in and do what you like after that.

So lose Castagna, Mansell and pick 30, get Bowes and pick 7 in

 

[RJK Tiger]

Has no clue this bloke…pfft…

prestia and George B


get off the grass Brah

I don't have much problem with it - its legit what i have been preaching for 12 months and effectively we have finished 12th & 7th over the past 2 years and just re-signed guys deep in their 30's & trading the house for a win now midfield. Its a mammoth risk i think we are better off not taking. The only way this can be called a good idea is if we win a flag while we still have the likes of Cotchin, Riewoldt, Dusty & Grimes on the list. I just don't see it. This was the cheap GF year, clearly. They are only going to get harder from here as the new risers rise.

I think this year might be a prime example of why you don't commit to an idea until you actually see what the market is offering. Its good to be flexible as you can cash in on the desperate.


Ultimately, people who have flexed up over Taranto & Hopper, you need to accept that essentially these guys are going to cost us our 1st rounder, pick 19 + Our 2023 1st & 2nd & likely Soldo. That is probably the best case scenario here in regards to "cost"

what is the better package

Hopper & Taranto

or

Bowes, Pick 7, Pick 12, Pick 19, Future 1st, Future 2nd + Soldo

Its a no brainer to me. Take the picks. Rebuild

 

[Mr Magic]

I don't have much problem with it - its legit what i have been preaching for 12 months and effectively we have finished 12th & 7th over the past 2 years and just re-signed guys deep in their 30's & trading the house for a win now midfield. Its a mammoth risk i think we are better off not taking. The only way this can be called a good idea is if we win a flag while we still have the likes of Cotchin, Riewoldt, Dusty & Grimes on the list.

I think this year might be a prime example of why you don't commit to an idea until you actually see what the market is offering. Its good to be flexible as you can cash in on the desperate.


Ultimately, people who have flexed up over Taranto & Hopper, you need to accept that essentially these guys are going to cost us our 1st rounder, pick 19 + Our 2023 1st & 2nd & likely Soldo.

what is the better package

Hopper & Taranto

or

Bowes, Pick 7, Pick 12, Pick 19, Future 1st, Future 2nd + Soldo

Its a no brainer to me. Take the picks. Rebuild

Especially when you could get De Goey as a FA

 

[RJK Tiger]

One would even consider trading Castagna and Mansell and trade pick 30 with them just to clear the cap, get 7 and Bowes in and do what you like after that.

So lose Castagna, Mansell and pick 30, get Bowes and pick 7 in

Georgies contract is not even that bad that we would need to include pick 30. There are clubs that would take him

FFS - we took Weller & Morrison from the Lions when they were winning flags & they didn't even play in them. A team with no finals experience would 100% take him for a 4th, 5th rounder without blinking.

In the history of the game, when else can you pick up a 3 time premiership player who is still 25 for a pick in the 60s on a cost effective contract? Its free experience

 

[Calcium Man]

lol he isn't blaming Geelong for GC being a mess - he is raising valid suspicion how the * Geelong can afford it when the 12th team can'[t. Their cap stinks to high hell & has for over a decade now, with more than a few stories of shady land developments in that area being granted etc.

I have no issue with a club benefiting from a Salary dump due to GC stupidity - but how that can end up being Geelong is beyond believeable at this point.

Who is leaving their club to make that space? Higgins? who else?

Lol every clubs salary cap is questionable if you dig deep enough.

The 12th team can’t afford it because they’re paying a guy not in their best 22 825k for the next 2 years. That should tell you how broken their cap is.

As for Geelong, meh. Hawkins and a Selwood from what I’ve been told are on about 300k. I have no doubt that their guys in general take unders, it’s been happening for 15 years. We also do similar.

Is there also some dodgy shit happening? most likely but I doubt we are clean in that regard too. I mean Puma and Dusty is about as well known as Judd and Visy. Pies look like they’ll be paying 600k for guys to play elsewhere but bring in half the league.

Cats were chasing hopper and Grundy, they clearly have some cash available, if they wanna cash that in for pick 7 good luck to them for being better then most other clubs.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Lol, they're not going to go to all the trouble of trading out $800k/year by offloading a premo draft pick to sweeten it, and then immediately bring in $800k+ worth of players from elsewhere.

Defeats the whole purpose.

I never said they would?

We would trade Graham to the Power & Castagna to whoever would take him so we free up the cap space, then we would trade our 4th rounder for Bowes and pick 7

 

[RJK Tiger]

Lol every clubs salary cap is questionable if you dig deep enough.

The 12th team can’t afford it because they’re paying a guy not in their best 22 825k for the next 2 years. That should tell you how broken their cap is.

As for Geelong, meh. Hawkins and a Selwood from what I’ve been told are on about 300k. I have no doubt that their guys in general take unders, it’s been happening for 15 years. We also do similar.

Is there also some dodgy s**t happening? most likely but I doubt we are clean in that regard too. I mean Puma and Dusty is about as well known as Judd and Visy. Pies look like they’ll be paying 600k for guys to play elsewhere but bring in half the league.

Cats were chasing hopper and Grundy, they clearly have some cash available, if they wanna cash that in for pick 7 good luck to them for being better then most other clubs.

And thats my crux

I dont believe for a second Selwood and Hawkins are on $300k a season. Maybe they take the paycut for 1 year like Trent & Jack just did, but they are not doing it for 3-4 years which is essentially what they would be looking at for them to have been able to afford Jeremy Cameron and now Bowes, without those blokes retiring

What else are they getting with the $300k? Farms? investment opportunities that are well below market value? Its suss.

Nowhere keeps secrets better than country towns. Said it for years

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

seriously wtf is going on with this league?

How the F can the 12th placed side that has never made the finals in their life be about to salary dump a player along with pick 7 to the Premiership side?

I am a BIG BIG BIG believer that all AFL contracts should be public knowledge like every other big league oversea's. I legit want to see how a club like Geelong has been able to manage their Salary cap for the past of 2 decades now while poaching the highest FA talent in Dangerfield, Cameron, Dalhause, Higgins and not ever get themselves into cap trouble - while other clubs just continually struggle with it?

Its time to stop all this gray and secret stuff in the AFL - the league is just way too dodgy for that now. Everything should be transparent.

I was listening to the Port recruiter today and clubs just have NFI what type of compo they are going to get until its way too late. Its all bullshit

I would love to know how the AFL who is heavily involved in everything GC does has allowed them to be in this position.

I understand they have to pay more to keep there players and attract others in the door but they're far too early into their rebuild to be having issues with salary space.

 

[RJK Tiger]

What's happenning with this Dusty boob grab thingo. Is it all resolved yet?

Apparently the report came back and she was a B cup

 

[Wooden Robot]

It's probably best-case-scenario Pick 7 going to Geelong. They're not likely to be competing for flags in 4-5 years when a high draft pick from 2022 really starts to mature.

Good on them for cashing in with a flag while all their old blokes are in their last couple of years, but the cliff is looming big time for the Cats. And their youthful demographic has been neglected pretty badly - their midfield, ruck and forward line is really think for quality Under 28's.

LOL .... the cliff is looming.
So said dozens of Richmond Big Footy posters 20 times a year since 2010.
LOL.
Love or hate them, credit to the Cats. Just keep on reinventing themselves and getting it done.

 

[chriso11]

Herald Sun should have delisted him the moment he called Prestia a B grader

His system is dumb
No club is going to have only A graders, nor do they need to. You can win premierships with B and C graders who are guns at their role. McIntosh may not be the most supremely talented footballer, but he knows his role inside out and is always reliable on the wing. He is battle hardened and (mostly) clutch when needed. There may be a small number of better wingers in the league, but you’d have to pay overs for them: so instead we have a great Role player and use that extra money to secure the big guns like Lynch, Martin and soon Taranto.