List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[_RT_]

seriously wtf is going on with this league?

How the F can the 12th placed side that has never made the finals in their life be about to salary dump a player along with pick 7 to the Premiership side?

I am a BIG BIG BIG believer that all AFL contracts should be public knowledge like every other big league oversea's. I legit want to see how a club like Geelong has been able to manage their Salary cap for the past of 2 decades now while poaching the highest FA talent in Dangerfield, Cameron, Dalhause, Higgins and not ever get themselves into cap trouble - while other clubs just continually struggle with it?

Its time to stop all this gray and secret stuff in the AFL - the league is just way too dodgy for that now. Everything should be transparent.

I was listening to the Port recruiter today and clubs just have NFI what type of compo they are going to get until its way too late. Its all bullshit

It's quite simple some clubs understand how to use the cap as a tool to be able to recruit top end talent when they want to and they don't get held to ransom by players who demand big money to stick around because they're scared they'll lose them for nothing.

Sides like Gold Coast and GWS dig a hole for themselves because they pay average players, elite player contracts just to remain at the club longer than their first contract. I know for a fact that a GWS player was paid well over what he was worth to sign an extension when he wanted to return to Melbourne. His manager rightly advised him to remain in Sydney and cash in because he wasn't going to get the same level of money to return to Meolbourne as he hadn't quite established himself. So he stayed and then when he had finished the stint he returned to Melbourne got paid a little less than GWS were paying but it didn't really matter as he was already set up for life with a house and investments.

GWS are paying the price now because they thought they were going to remain a contender so had all their big names signed up to big money deals and they either keep them and let younger talent go or they let a few of the older guys go along with a few younger guys not worth overpaying for and get their cap back under control. Gold Coast are screwed because they were given concessions to sign extra players to try and climb of the bottom and while they've done that, they've also paid well over the odds to keep that list together and now they find themselves on the brink of success but needing to hold a firesale to get their cap back under control. IMO they are going about it the right way, they are flogging off players who aren't seen as being part of their long term future, but still have some value at the trade table, albeit, they need to sell off good picks along the way, but what they'll end up with is a list that wants to be on the Gold Coast not because they're getting overpaid, but because they believe they are good enough to be contenders for the finals.

Meanwhile, clubs like us and Geelong have played the system well. We don't overpay for anyone we want to bring in/retain. It's well known that both Lynch and Martin left money on the table when they signed/re-signed with us as to have a number of other players, while those who weren't prepared to take a fair deal were allowed to move on to newer pastures with our blessing. It is this sort of balanced approach that sees us in the position we are now where we'll bring in 2 guns, while retaining everyone we want to retain. Sure we might lose a player or 2 the other way because of greater opportunity/contracts, but on the balance of things we will come out ahead this year and will be well placed for the future.

 

[prodigy]

It did it’s job, we lost (if it actually had any impact). Therefore it’s now been swept under the rug.

This is very much accurate.
Faux outrage from the Geelong supporters in the media for a day and then we lost and no one has heard a thing since.

If we won and went on to the Grand Final it would have been dominating news headlines everyday pressuring the AFL into making a decision.

I know it's not the thread for it, but the leak on the eve of our elimination final along with the immediate reaction from the media to the inaction after we lost left a really sour taste in my mouth.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Some clubs can pitch an attractive lifestyle to their players.

Paddy and Jezza both love a surf, they live in Torquay, away from the Melbourne bubble, they can ride the waves and live by the beach + they're close to their family.

That's worth 25% of a contracts value. Pretty hard to make it sound attractive driving down Punt Road everyday hah

 

[RJK Tiger]

I would love to know how the AFL who is heavily involved in everything GC does has allowed them to be in this position.

I understand they have to pay more to keep there players and attract others in the door but they're far too early into their rebuild to be having issues with salary space.

There is no way.... NO WAY...... They can give this club any my priority picks or further list concessions after this. Its diabolical if they do. You can't keep bailing people out of trouble due to stupidity.

If the club still can't keep players unless they pay them stupid money after decade, then maybe its time for the AFL to say they got it wrong and close them up - or use the Suns to merge into Tassie so we don't have to spend another decade with the draft being a shitshow

Its just time to close the doors on Gold Coast. No one gives 2 shits about them up here, they are a joke even in their own state. Why are they persisting with it? If they said they were closing the doors, would anyone even care to rattle a tin?

If not, then close it up

 

[_RT_]

LOL .... the cliff is looming.
So said dozens of Richmond Big Footy posters 20 times a year since 2010.
LOL.
Love or hate them, credit to the Cats. Just keep on reinventing themselves and getting it done.

They'll likely add Bowes, pick 7, Ollie Henry & Tanner Bruhn to give them a boost in their rebuild on the fly

 

[RJK Tiger]

Some clubs can pitch an attractive lifestyle to their players.

Paddy and Jezza both love a surf, they live in Torquay, away from the Melbourne bubble, they can ride the waves and live by the beach + they're close to their family.

That's worth 25% of a contracts value. Pretty hard to make it sound attractive driving down Punt Road everyday hah

Yeah cos ****ing Geelong is the dream destination

Gimme a ****ing break. Its an hour drive from Melbourne ffs & its not that great living there. Know people who have lived in both Geelong & Melbourne and none of them miss it. Its not Miami ffs

No one is taking $250k a year less to save themselves an hour drive to go surfing.

 

[Calcium Man]

It's quite simple some clubs understand how to use the cap as a tool to be able to recruit top end talent when they want to and they don't get held to ransom by players who demand big money to stick around because they're scared they'll lose them for nothing.

Sides like Gold Coast and GWS dig a hole for themselves because they pay average players, elite player contracts just to remain at the club longer than their first contract. I know for a fact that a GWS player was paid well over what he was worth to sign an extension when he wanted to return to Melbourne. His manager rightly advised him to remain in Sydney and cash in because he wasn't going to get the same level of money to return to Meolbourne as he hadn't quite established himself. So he stayed and then when he had finished the stint he returned to Melbourne got paid a little less than GWS were paying but it didn't really matter as he was already set up for life with a house and investments.

GWS are paying the price now because they thought they were going to remain a contender so had all their big names signed up to big money deals and they either keep them and let younger talent go or they let a few of the older guys go along with a few younger guys not worth overpaying for and get their cap back under control. Gold Coast are screwed because they were given concessions to sign extra players to try and climb of the bottom and while they've done that, they've also paid well over the odds to keep that list together and now they find themselves on the brink of success but needing to hold a firesale to get their cap back under control. IMO they are going about it the right way, they are flogging off players who aren't seen as being part of their long term future, but still have some value at the trade table, albeit, they need to sell off good picks along the way, but what they'll end up with is a list that wants to be on the Gold Coast not because they're getting overpaid, but because they believe they are good enough to be contenders for the finals.

Meanwhile, clubs like us and Geelong have played the system well. We don't overpay for anyone we want to bring in/retain. It's well known that both Lynch and Martin left money on the table when they signed/re-signed with us as to have a number of other players, while those who weren't prepared to take a fair deal were allowed to move on to newer pastures with our blessing. It is this sort of balanced approach that sees us in the position we are now where we'll bring in 2 guns, while retaining everyone we want to retain. Sure we might lose a player or 2 the other way because of greater opportunity/contracts, but on the balance of things we will come out ahead this year and will be well placed for the future.

Does seem like GC are learning the lesson this time with the talk coming out of the club of re-aligning their payment structure.

 

[Calcium Man]

This is very much accurate.
Faux outrage from the Geelong supporters in the media for a day and then we lost and no one has heard a thing since.

If we won and went on to the Grand Final it would have been dominating news headlines everyday pressuring the AFL into making a decision.

I know it's not the thread for it, but the leak on the eve of our elimination final along with the immediate reaction from the media to the inaction after we lost left a really sour taste in my mouth.

It’s so dodgy. Someone clearly had an agenda, and I’d wouldn’t be surprised if it was from AFL house.

Caro has outright said the AFL don’t like us and Dimma after 2020, and she is one of AFL houses most used mouth pieces. She knows.

And yep can only imagine how it would have dominated headlines if we got past the Lions. Meanwhile AFL is sitting on a bombshell report basically suggesting Fagen was a psychopath.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Weird hill to die on thinking he’s above signing a contract with some clauses about his off field stuff. How is trying to stop him bashing or sexually assaulting someone a bad thing.

Would be no issue with the clauses if he didn’t plan on doing it. No doubt a desperate club will offer him a contract with no clauses and he’ll run to them. High chance they’ll regret it though.

Managed by his dick head brother.


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[Tomnat Tigers]

It's quite simple some clubs understand how to use the cap as a tool to be able to recruit top end talent when they want to and they don't get held to ransom by players who demand big money to stick around because they're scared they'll lose them for nothing.

See this is bullshit. The average joe understands salary cap space, you can't tell me people who get paid to do this for a living can't figure out how it works. The issue is there is no repercussions by the AFL and they constantly turn a blind eye to the poor decisions the bottom teams make and then bail them out when they continue to suck with priority picks and extra list spots.

 

[Profop]

One would even consider trading Castagna and Mansell and trade pick 30 with them just to clear the cap, get 7 and Bowes in and do what you like after that.

So lose Castagna, Mansell and pick 30, get Bowes and pick 7 in

I really don’t think you understand what a salary dump is

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Yeah cos ******* Geelong is the dream destination

Gimme a ******* break. Its an hour drive from Melbourne ffs & its not that great living there. Know people who have lived in both Geelong & Melbourne and none of them miss it. Its not Miami ffs

No one is taking $250k a year less to save themselves an hour drive to go surfing.

Weird melt

Geelong in itself is a shithole, but it's 30-90minutes away from some beautiful areas and that's the pitch.

You won't see Danger shopping at Westfield Geelong

 

[Wooden Robot]

They'll likely add Bowes, pick 7, Ollie Henry & Tanner Bruhn to give them a boost in their rebuild on the fly

You get it.

 

[Mr Magic]

I really don’t think you understand what a salary dump is

Try me.

Give me some figures

 

[Roksman]

Would you trade Graham & Castagna for pick 7 & Bowes? Essentially you would think both of those guys contracts would equate to Bowes + a rookie contract.

I personally would. I would actually rather get only 1 of the GWS blokes, Bowes, Pick 7 & keep multiple of our own first, 2nd rounders

wont happen as we are coaching and playing only for the now, which i know will bite us in the arse. Firm believer that Taranto & Hopper are unlikely to push us over the top over the next 2 years. With GS giving away blue chip picks for basically free - its a prime time for us to do a super quick rebuild.

Including last years haul of picks, we essentially could work this so that end up with 14 picks inside the top 30 over a 3 year period - it would set us up for the next decade without ever having to bottom out completely.

If you were in charge of the club you would've sacked Dimma because of his divorce. So please save the rhetoric that you have a better plan for the long term future of the club which apparently will "bite us in the arse".

I think Blair and Dimma know what they're doing thanks.

 

[Profop]

Yeah cos ******* Geelong is the dream destination

Gimme a ******* break. Its an hour drive from Melbourne ffs & its not that great living there. Know people who have lived in both Geelong & Melbourne and none of them miss it. Its not Miami ffs

No one is taking $250k a year less to save themselves an hour drive to go surfing.

You’d be surprised how annoying a commute could be. Saints aren’t in Seaford any more because existing players cracked the shits and it was affecting their ability to recruit

 

[Wooden Robot]

Weird melt

Geelong in itself is a shithole, but it's 30-90minutes away from some beautiful areas and that's the pitch.

You won't see Danger shopping at Westfield Geelong

I'd live in Geelong in a heartbeat.

 

[Calcium Man]

And thats my crux

I dont believe for a second Selwood and Hawkins are on $300k a season. Maybe they take the paycut for 1 year like Trent & Jack just did, but they are not doing it for 3-4 years which is essentially what they would be looking at for them to have been able to afford Jeremy Cameron and now Bowes, without those blokes retiring

What else are they getting with the $300k? Farms? investment opportunities that are well below market value? Its suss.

Nowhere keeps secrets better than country towns. Said it for years

I’m not sure why you’d doubt Hawkins and Selwood? Given both are mid 30s and basically thrown everything they have at another premiership the last 4 seasons. They’ve made their cash, and probably with the right “advice” from club donors, made a crap load in investing whether property or whatever. It makes sense they’ve taken haircuts.

That’s just simply how this shit works, the more cash you have the easier it is to make cash. And if you run around in the right circles, such as a footy club that draws in well connected folk, you’ll make the best investment calls.

Yeah it’s all bullshit, but it’ll be happening at every club.

Yeah cos ******* Geelong is the dream destination

Gimme a ******* break. Its an hour drive from Melbourne ffs & its not that great living there. Know people who have lived in both Geelong & Melbourne and none of them miss it. Its not Miami ffs

No one is taking $250k a year less to save themselves an hour drive to go surfing.

No cats player lives in Geelong, they all live in Torquay and the surf coast. My old man lives down there and is a mad cats fan, he knows them all.

As for 250k less, yeah sure no one is taking that but you can’t evaluate your values as everyone’s. Personally If I’m making 600k but Collingwood offers me 700k to move to Melbourne and play I’d probably stay in Torquay. All you need is Touhy, Duncan, Guthrie, Smith, Blicavs, Stewart etc… accepting a 50k hair cut and you’ve got 300k to play with.

 

[Profop]

Try me.

Give me some figures

You’re suggesting we trade GC Castagna and Mansell so we have space for Bowes contract however the only reason GC are trading Bowes is so they can have cap space for some of their players coming out of contract next year

Absolutely no chance they’d want to mitigate the salary cap gains from losing Bowes by picking up Castagna and Mansell

 

[Mr Magic]

LOL .... the cliff is looming.
So said dozens of Richmond Big Footy posters 20 times a year since 2010.
LOL.
Love or hate them, credit to the Cats. Just keep on reinventing themselves and getting it done.

there are better than us with FA and trading no doubt so far

 

[Marcel Proust]

It’s perfectly acceptable. Brisbane just made a prelim and are getting pick 1, dogs made a granny and got pick 3 (was that what Darcy went?).

What’s not acceptable is blaming Geelong for GC being a mess. That’s on the AFL and GC.

But there is always going to be unfair s**t in the AFL, the fixture, home ground advantage, wealth/power of clubs, academies etc… let’s not punish or pay out the clubs who navigate this s**t, instead demand better of the other clubs.

I'm not blaming geelong.

I'm blaming the bottom teams for being so badly run they cannot fit in a top10 draft pick for a salary cap dump

 

[Simche]

Yeah cos ******* Geelong is the dream destination

Gimme a ******* break. Its an hour drive from Melbourne ffs & its not that great living there. Know people who have lived in both Geelong & Melbourne and none of them miss it. Its not Miami ffs

No one is taking $250k a year less to save themselves an hour drive to go surfing.

Spot on. I was well remunerated as a young professional having elected to go down there for 6 years, but Geelong itself isn't a great place to live and most of the Bellarine and Surf Coast are pretty poor during the winter months with businesses closing etc. I moved back to Melbourne as soon as I got an offer for my line of work that was commensurate.

There's fundamentally no culture down there (restaurants, live music, cafes etc.) so it tends to appeal to the hunting, fishing, surfing, hiking types which I do not count myself amongst. At AFL level it also appeals to the blokes that were raised down there and love the appeal of walking into a nightclub with everyone they went to high school with as the biggest fish in what is a very shallow pond.

Back onto trades, I am hoping we somehow manage to nail Taranto and Hopper while keeping 19 and 30 (or at least find enough to trade into the top 30). Reckon the blokes around that mark this year will be just as good as those in the 5-18 bracket and it'd be nice not to have a gap in our list in four years time. Not sure how we can do that short of looking at 13, F1st, F2nd and whatever we get for moving on anyone who wants to go like a Soldo.

Don't like the Graham trade news. You don't move on great clubmen. They make the culture and on that basis Jack needs to stay in my view.

 

[Barunga Bullet]

seriously wtf is going on with this league?

How the F can the 12th placed side that has never made the finals in their life be about to salary dump a player along with pick 7 to the Premiership side?

I am a BIG BIG BIG believer that all AFL contracts should be public knowledge like every other big league oversea's. I legit want to see how a club like Geelong has been able to manage their Salary cap for the past of 2 decades now while poaching the highest FA talent in Dangerfield, Cameron, Dalhause, Higgins and not ever get themselves into cap trouble - while other clubs just continually struggle with it?

Its time to stop all this gray and secret stuff in the AFL - the league is just way too dodgy for that now. Everything should be transparent.

I was listening to the Port recruiter today and clubs just have NFI what type of compo they are going to get until its way too late. Its all bullshit

I'd love to know how many properties each of the above player owns and how many they have acquired whilst being at the cats

 

[Mr Magic]

You’re suggesting we trade GC Castagna and Mansell so we have space for Bowes contract however the only reason GC are trading Bowes is so they can have cap space for some of their players coming out of contract next year

Absolutely no chance they’d want to mitigate the salary cap gains from losing Bowes by picking up Castagna and Mansell

Who wrote we would be trading Castagna, Mansell and pick 30 to Gold Coast??? Obviously a third party club would need to be involved

 

[NZ_Tiger]

the salt in the comments

So they’ve finally read the room and realised 4 first rounders wasn’t going to happen.


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