Player Watch Tyler Brown (Delisted 2022)

[Kappa]

Carmichael is very bad news for Tyler, similar age too. Coaches clearly not happy with our young inside mid department.

 

[sr36]

Shouldn’t play another game this season until he’s getting 25 touches, 5 tackles, 5 clearances in the VFL on a weekly basis

Cause we just bought in a kid who has done those stats week in and out in the SANFL… who will deserve a go very soon

Cause Carmichael certainly won’t get the luxury of 5-6 years on the list to prove himself

Didn't Brown do something like that 3 weeks in a row before this stint in the seniors?

I don't mind Tyler and think he might eventually come good, but no idea why you'd draft a midfielder so raw and far off it as he was when they drafted him. Hopefully clubs will shift away from being so heavily weighted towards recruiting 18 year olds.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Carmichael is very bad news for Tyler, similar age too. Coaches clearly not happy with our young inside mid department.

Given we don’t have any players in that age bracket due to our list management errors, it’s wise to add to that demographic if possible. There’s certainly room for them to co exist if they prove to be good enough. It’s not necessarily one or the other.

Players like Sidebottom and WHE also need to be replaced, whilst we have plenty other players at the 29+ age group. Admittedly they aren’t all inside mids but Adams is definitely in that age group too. He looks awesome right now but he’s just one hamstring injury away from the geriatric ward.

 

[Markfs]

You raise good points.

Bucks was always going to surround himself with assistants he wanted. It's de rigueur for a senior coach appointment to be followed by a restructure of sorts at the assistant level.

It doesn't surprise that Ed would hire a mate, but I don't believe for a second that he would do it if he thought it would hurt the club. He poked in places that aren't a president's area of immediate concern i.e. the football program but I don't believe he or the current president have any say on which players get drafted. Influence? Couldn't prove that one way or another.

The club has persisted with the Brown brothers. Some are frustrated by this and perhaps rightfully so but they have not been granted their extended opportunity at the AFL level simply because of their surname.

It's a cut-throat game. Coaches and recruiters live or die by how well the players go in the big-time. Not sure anyone would stick their own neck out just so Cal and Tyler can realise their AFL dream.

Then why do people network if it isnt to gain advantage. And will Will Kelly stay another year on the list because the people making the decision on him or having input into that decision, will think about craig kelly, if only for an instant.... if only for an instant.

People discuss tyler brown's performance and others start talking about how that impacts on his father.... whether he is somehow afforded a higher level of respect because of the deeds of the father.

You only have to look at how Nick Daicos was greeted into the club to know that this wasnt the entry of a normal pick 4.

People may not deliberately or even knowingly affect the performance of the club, by their decisions. Many decisions about players may be made differently by other people. We changed coaches last year to get a person who makes different decisions.

I just dont believe Eddie in particular was objective enough when he was making decisions over the course of the journey.

 

[Markfs]

Didn't Brown do something like that 3 weeks in a row before this stint in the seniors?

I don't mind Tyler and think he might eventually come good, but no idea why you'd draft a midfielder so raw and far off it as he was when they drafted him. Hopefully clubs will shift away from being so heavily weighted towards recruiting 18 year olds.

If his name was Tyler Pink would he have been drafted? Has he really shown anything in the last 5 years that made you nod your head and say "now i realise why they drafted him"

 

[jathanas]

Then why do people network if it isnt to gain advantage. And will Will Kelly stay another year on the list because the people making the decision on him or having input into that decision, will think about craig kelly, if only for an instant.... if only for an instant.

People discuss tyler brown's performance and others start talking about how that impacts on his father.... whether he is somehow afforded a higher level of respect because of the deeds of the father.

You only have to look at how Nick Daicos was greeted into the club to know that this wasnt the entry of a normal pick 4.

People may not deliberately or even knowingly affect the performance of the club, by their decisions. Many decisions about players may be made differently by other people. We changed coaches last year to get a person who makes different decisions.

I just dont believe Eddie in particular was objective enough when he was making decisions over the course of the journey.

Sier got a few years on our list based on the promise we saw over a few games.

Drafting youth is a risky process full of unknowns. People do back genes and environment so Ι guess you're right; sons of players maybe do get an extra year or 2 in the system.

Not sure that's a bad thing.

I remember some were doubting Josh Daicos in his first couple of years. Too weak, too slow, only got drafted because of his dad.

We're now glad the club stuck with him.

We've seen very little from Tyler at the senior level but we don't see everything the coaches see. Your ideas are pertinent, especially about Ed's objectivity.

P.S: I can't be objective about Collingwood either which is the only reason I'm not president.

 

[Scodog10]

If his name was Tyler Pink would he have been drafted? Has he really shown anything in the last 5 years that made you nod your head and say "now i realise why they drafted him"

No he wouldn’t have, but I’m more concerned about the perception that he’s received time that otherwise wouldn’t be afforded to him once in the system. Jay Rantall showed more in his Covid impacted time at VFL level than Tyler has to this day and despite that he was 20 when he got delisted. If his name were Jay Didak he would be on the list until at least 2024.

FWIW neither Rantall or Brown are up to the top level, IMO, this is more to highlight the perceived preferential treatment that Tyler has received.

 

[Markfs]

No he wouldn’t have, but I’m more concerned about the perception that he’s received time that otherwise wouldn’t be afforded to him once in the system. Jay Rantall showed more in his Covid impacted time at VFL level than Tyler has to this day and despite that he was 20 when he got delisted. If his name were Jay Didak he would be on the list until at least 2024.

FWIW neither Rantall or Brown are up to the top level, IMO, this is more to highlight the perceived preferential treatment that Tyler has received.

the fact that tyler is marginal means that he is down with the guys who need to be fully committed to make it at AFL level. We arent waiting on a de goey-like player to get his stuff together. Your example of rantall is a good one. He was given a short time to get up to speed. I just hope there's some clarity among the marginal players why some get the extra time and some dont. I'm speaking from my perspective. Maybe these footballers are happy to have their life determined by someone who thinks they arent going to make and someone like tyler is.

I said once or twice that I'm happy to see tyler given a good go if there is an end to it somewhere. I'd like to see a decision at season's end. For example, I think murphy has shown enough. I'd like to see tyler give a sign, and more than just a good minute.

 

[Markfs]

Sier got a few years on our list based on the promise we saw over a few games.

Drafting youth is a risky process full of unknowns. People do back genes and environment so Ι guess you're right; sons of players maybe do get an extra year or 2 in the system.

Not sure that's a bad thing.

I remember some were doubting Josh Daicos in his first couple of years. Too weak, too slow, only got drafted because of his dad.

We're now glad the club stuck with him.

We've seen very little from Tyler at the senior level but we don't see everything the coaches see. Your ideas are pertinent, especially about Ed's objectivity.

P.S: I can't be objective about Collingwood either which is the only reason I'm not president.

josh is a good example and i think I gave up on him personally. I also think that some players can take a while. I remember thinking goldsack was like a 5 year old with his lack of maturity early on. I think there are times when the club can make a case to give more time. If tyler is suffering from the weight of being his father's son, then maybe that needs to be considered, but i'm not seeing what the coaches see.

As far eddie, he was always too overconfident that mateship and his take on common sense, would overcome all problems. His biggest mistake was the malthouse buckley thing where blind freddie could see that those two would never work together.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I remember some were doubting Josh Daicos in his first couple of years. Too weak, too slow, only got drafted because of his dad.

I'd fail 100 times in a row on a guy who can use the ball and find the ball.

If a guy can't do either of those things, his path to success as an AFL player is so, so limited.

Hawthorn's drafting strategy for years was to draft lefties who went hard at the ball. It basically built them a dynasty because left foot kicks are disproportionately good at using the ball, because the only way that you're allowed to continue kicking with your left as a junior is if you're good at it.

#1 Can kick
#2 Goes at it hard
#3 Finds the footy the right amount for the position they play

Those would be my top priorities when assessing draftees.

Tyler fails at #1 and #3. Brayden Sier was pretty much the same. Wouldn't have been draftable in my view, and not really worth persisting with.

It's also the difference between Tyler and Josh Carmichael. Even if Carmichael's posession tally goes down at AFL level, he will still always do #1 and #2.

It's telling that Tyler's best game is as a backup ruck, a role that he's obviously not capable of playing in normal circumstances.

 

[jathanas]

I'd fail 100 times in a row on a guy who can use the ball and find the ball.

If a guy can't do either of those things, his path to success as an AFL player is so, so limited.

Hawthorn's drafting strategy for years was to draft lefties who went hard at the ball. It basically built them a dynasty because left foot kicks are disproportionately good at using the ball, because the only way that you're allowed to continue kicking with your left as a junior is if you're good at it.

#1 Can kick
#2 Goes at it hard
#3 Finds the footy the right amount for the position they play

Those would be my top priorities when assessing draftees.

Tyler fails at #1 and #3. Brayden Sier was pretty much the same. Wouldn't have been draftable in my view, and not really worth persisting with.

It's also the difference between Tyler and Josh Carmichael. Even if Carmichael's posession tally goes down at AFL level, he will still always do #1 and #2.

It's telling that Tyler's best game is as a backup ruck, a role that he's obviously not capable of playing in normal circumstances.

No arguments.

Only thing I'd clarify is that your criteria is specific to the AFL level. Some kids (including Tyler) kill it at the levels below that which is why they're afforded time to bridge the gap.

 

[sr36]

No he wouldn’t have, but I’m more concerned about the perception that he’s received time that otherwise wouldn’t be afforded to him once in the system. Jay Rantall showed more in his Covid impacted time at VFL level than Tyler has to this day and despite that he was 20 when he got delisted. If his name were Jay Didak he would be on the list until at least 2024.

FWIW neither Rantall or Brown are up to the top level, IMO, this is more to highlight the perceived preferential treatment that Tyler has received.

I think Tyler was a bad selection at the time. I don't understand why clubs would select a midfielder who is as far away as Tyler was when we drafted him. Unless his potential is like Brayden Sier and even then the dodginess of that sort of selection was shown. Based on his VFL form this year, now is the time Brown should have been getting drafted onto an AFL list.

Recently, we've been a club that gives blokes a long run. Brown isn't really an outlier in that regard - Rantall was the outlier - it's pretty rare that we cut them after 2 years. He was a bad selection for a different reason - he was slow and a really bad kick. The tools just weren't there, hence them going so early with him.

 

[Scodog10]

the fact that tyler is marginal means that he is down with the guys who need to be fully committed to make it at AFL level. We arent waiting on a de goey-like player to get his stuff together. Your example of rantall is a good one. He was given a short time to get up to speed. I just hope there's some clarity among the marginal players why some get the extra time and some dont. I'm speaking from my perspective. Maybe these footballers are happy to have their life determined by someone who thinks they arent going to make and someone like tyler is.

I said once or twice that I'm happy to see tyler given a good go if there is an end to it somewhere. I'd like to see a decision at season's end. For example, I think murphy has shown enough. I'd like to see tyler give a sign, and more than just a good minute.

This is where I’m challenged week to week with him v a guy like McInnes. Both are clearly a long way off it, but one has had 5 years for it to click and the other 5 minutes. When it’s a marginal call like that give the minutes to the 19yo 8ppg player > over the 22yo 8ppg player. I guess the way I could break it down for those still on the bandwagon if Tyler were on another clubs list would you even have the remotest interest in trading for him? If so what would you offer in a trade?

Another I could probably add to the mix was Atu another not likely to make it, but ultimately kicked to the curb all too quickly by comparison to Brown/ Sier. I have to assume it’s down to role.

 

[Markfs]

I think Tyler was a bad selection at the time. I don't understand why clubs would select a midfielder who is as far away as Tyler was when we drafted him. Unless his potential is like Brayden Sier and even then the dodginess of that sort of selection was shown. Based on his VFL form this year, now is the time Brown should have been getting drafted onto an AFL list.

Recently, we've been a club that gives blokes a long run. Brown isn't really an outlier in that regard - Rantall was the outlier - it's pretty rare that we cut them after 2 years. He was a bad selection for a different reason - he was slow and a really bad kick. The tools just weren't there, hence them going so early with him.

answer this question oh wise one..... why dont we recruit a sudanese australian, when many of those guys show something in the first few games....and yet are happy to recruit players who take years to bear fruit??

 

[Scodog10]

No arguments.

Only thing I'd clarify is that your criteria is specific to the AFL level. Some kids (including Tyler) kill it at the levels below that which is why they're afforded time to bridge the gap.

That’s the issue though. At no point be it junior, VFL or AFL level has Tyler ever “killed it” he’s been a marginal talent (at best) at all three levels.

 

[jathanas]

That’s the issue though. At no point be it junior, VFL or AFL level has Tyler ever “killed it” he’s been a marginal talent (at best) at all three levels.

You follow the VFL more than I do so I'm just going by the reviews his recent VFL performances got. He was listed among C'wood's best a couple of times before his call-up, am I wrong Sco?

I haven't followed Tyler's junior footy to know if he was a stand-out. His brother went OK at Colts and the Chargers.

 

[Scodog10]

I think Tyler was a bad selection at the time. I don't understand why clubs would select a midfielder who is as far away as Tyler was when we drafted him. Unless his potential is like Brayden Sier and even then the dodginess of that sort of selection was shown. Based on his VFL form this year, now is the time Brown should have been getting drafted onto an AFL list.

Recently, we've been a club that gives blokes a long run. Brown isn't really an outlier in that regard - Rantall was the outlier - it's pretty rare that we cut them after 2 years. He was a bad selection for a different reason - he was slow and a really bad kick. The tools just weren't there, hence them going so early with him.

Hold the presses 19yo in his first 3 senior games struggles with the pace of the game and hitting targets! As VV pointed out the tools aren’t there for Tyler either from an actual football perspective.

 

[sr36]

Hold the presses 19yo in his first 3 senior games struggles with the pace of the game and hitting targets! As VV pointed out the tools aren’t there for Tyler either from an actual football perspective.

I didn't mean the pace of the game - I meant leg speed. As his tank was huge, this wasn't a newbie conditioning thing - he just had no acceleration and was a terrible kick on top of that. No qualms with the decision to cut - he reminded me of one of Tony Shaw's dreadfuls.

I don't think Brown should have been on the list for the last 4 years, but am fine with him being on there now. He's now getting close enough to the mark and still improving so wouldn't mind him getting another year - particularly if he continued to perform well in the VFL, which is where I'd be playing him most weeks.

 

[Scodog10]

You follow the VFL more than I do so I'm just going by the reviews his recent VFL performances got. He was listed among C'wood's best a couple of times before his call-up, am I wrong Sco?

I haven't followed Tyler's junior footy to know if he was a stand-out. His brother went OK at Colts and the Chargers.

His performances met the standard required of a 22yo AFL footballer aspiring to play midfield at AFL level. As an example if IQ were to play VFL midfield next week he’d have 35 and a goal or two. Ditto Noble. Carmichael for instance will likely come in and match them straight up.

VFL reviews can fluctuate wildly and I would say his performances standout more by comparison to those around him than due to his actual efforts (Poulter, Macrae and McInnes have been underwhelming in 2022, IMO). What I would say about them in the context of Brown is that for the first time in his career they are encouraging the problem i have is what should happen isn’t happening. Look at Henry he gets dropped early season builds his form at VFL level, breaks back in and is then dropped after one “bad” game (lucky he got the sub reprieve of Cox’s injury otherwise he’d have played VFL last week). Tyler on the other hand hasn’t had a good game at senior level this year yet still gets the minutes.

Tyler was a 15-20 possession NAB league player consisting of 7 kicks 11 handballs 2 tackles etc. and from memory he never played national championships. Callum was a very handy footballer for the Rangers and realistically he’s the better of the two today. The problem is it’s a low bar and his kicking is average by VFL standards.

 

[Scodog10]

I didn't mean the pace of the game - I meant leg speed. As his tank was huge, this wasn't a newbie conditioning thing - he just had no acceleration and was a terrible kick on top of that. No qualms with the decision to cut - he reminded me of one of Tony Shaw's dreadfuls.

I don't think Brown should have been on the list for the last 4 years, but am fine with him being on there now. He's now getting close enough to the mark and still improving so wouldn't mind him getting another year - particularly if he continued to perform well in the VFL, which is where I'd be playing him most weeks.

I know what you meant. I’m sure you remember Henry’s first few games? He looked as slow as a wet week adjusting to the pace of the game. Having read that same line of comments on Tyler 3 times now it hasn’t changed my POV and at this rate he’ll be AFL relevant by year 10. Seems like good list management to me!

 

[Matrix10]

No arguments.

Only thing I'd clarify is that your criteria is specific to the AFL level. Some kids (including Tyler) kill it at the levels below that which is why they're afforded time to bridge the gap.

Tyler “ kill it at the levels below “ , he has never killed it at the levels below , good average games from time to time is all he has produced.

 

[sr36]

I know what you meant. I’m sure you remember Henry’s first few games? He looked as slow as a wet week adjusting to the pace of the game. Who knows at the rate Tyler’s improving he’ll be AFL relevant by year 10 seems like good list management to me!

Yeah, it can be really hard to get a handle on newby pace, for a variety of reasons, but I do think Rantall was genuinely one paced.

With Tyler, and anyone else, I don't really care how long they've been on the last - the past is gone. It's about whether or not they've shown enough to be on the list next year. Obviously, it's a strong NO! from you. I'm a weak yes, but will depend on the rest of the year. I wouldn't have drafted him when they did and I would have delisted him every year, but this year he's getting close.

 

[sr36]

Tyler “ kill it at the levels below “ , he has never killed it at the levels below , good average games from time to time is all he has produced.

He hadn't even produced that until this year, but his 3 VFL games this year were very strong.

 

[jathanas]

Tyler “ kill it at the levels below “ , he has never killed it at the levels below , good average games from time to time is all he has produced.

His performances in the VFL that led to his promotion this year were acknowledged as very good and he was listed as one of the team's best. He earnt his call-up. Maybe that's not "killing it" so you'll have to grant me poetic license.

P.S: I agree with you and Scodog10 that he hasn't set the world on fire yet.

 

[Scodog10]

His performances in the VFL that led to his promotion this year were acknowledged as very good and he was listed as one of the team's best. He earnt his call-up. Maybe that's not "killing it" so you'll have to grant me poetic license.

P.S: I agree with you and Scodog10 that he hasn't set the world on fire yet.

I have to stress in all my criticism I hope it clicks for him because a 6’4 clearance beast would bridge the gap between us and the best 4-6 teams (think Kennedy at Carlton). It’s just so far from happening and the coaching group aren’t doing him any favours, IMO.