Umpiring

[Dags2121]

It's time for the club to address the issue of lop-sided umpiring. The figures are striking in terms of quantity but I believe they are even more striking when we consider the overall impact of inconsistent umpiring. I believe we need to look at scoring chains and record which ones were facilitated by a free kick. If a score is a result of a free kick, whether it's awarded in defense, midfield or wherever it should be recorded as such. We then obtain a clearer understanding of how much umpiring may affect the final result. We need a representation of data so let's start with this year but can go back a couple of years to illustrate this worsening trend. Perhaps the club already has this data but I can see that opposition momentum surges and free kick runs are directly correlated. Once the data is available, if nothing else it will show that we are justified in calling it out.

The frustration lies totally in th free kicks received column...
Unbelievably, most all AFL teams play their cleanest footy against us...
First half yesterday, hawks give away just 5 free kicks...
Second half last week pies give away only 3 free kicks...
Astounding that AFL teams can be so clean..

This is th message that needs to be pushed by all our faithful. Hopefully the media will get onboard and change can occur... not holding my breath


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Phar Ace]

That was an absolute bullshit interpretation and a perfect example of how umpires continually get this wrong.
The rule was brought in to stop people charging at the ball and following through to take out a stationary oopo players legs. It can break bones and effects careers. Ask N Brown.
What we have got is umpires paying it if a player jumps on the ball, or collects it and the oppo players momentum carries them over the ball winner, this is the oppo players fault, not the ball winners.
Lewis (?) completely changed direction and cut in front of Balta who was already low and collecting the ball and couldn't deviate. Ergo bullshit.

This batch of umpires are mostly nerds and with the exception of one perhaps, have probably never played the game for any length of time - They know the rules, sure, but what they lack is an understanding of the cause and affect of real time play. They are not sufficiently nuanced. Yet so many of the new rules now require nuance (that's a whole other discussion). I also worry that this so called "respect rule" is building a false bravado in the mini men. Have noticed a real change in the way some of these guys are talking AT some of the footballers now.

Umpires are coached to be unemotional and that is good. It would seem there is some sort of false expectation that footballers can do the same - they are not some sort of homogeneous group of auto-morons, they are often highly strung, skillful individuals who have professional lives riding on the up and downs of a football game. That doesn't give them permission to be knobs and thugs, but they must be allowed to let off frustrations in a way that that is neither specifically personal or highly offensive.

Have watched some local football more recently when in Melbourne and the respect to umpires is considerably improved, an absolutely good thing, however in the games I watched they are not applying the new rules with the same vigour. Spoke with an umpire who said they simply can't umpire like the top level because while the players may learn to tolerate it, the buffoons over the fence never will. They have to find that nuance I was talking about. Arms out are not a problem, responding with "bloody hell your kidding" is not called disrespect but a finger pointing spray is. Local umpires get it, players need to let off some steam.

Gil, stop agonizing over the look of the game, how it looks is nothing compared to how it plays!!!!!!!!!! Gil was sitting with Eddie at the Bulldogs v Collingwood game. God I hope Eddie pointed out a few things to Gil about this current raft of pedantic not footballing rules and how they are deciding games in the hands of of little people with no nuance at all (looking at you Justin Power - Umpire No 4)

Retired umpire Stuart Wenn — who hung up the boots in 2014 after more than 300 games — said there was a very good reason umpires would be reluctant to do the job full-time.​

​

“We’ve come through history with umpires having full-time jobs (away from football). The challenge is a lot of those guys are in very high-paid careers. They are well established in those by the time they actually get to the AFL ... there would be guys on the AFL list that would earning upwards of $250,000-$300,000 a year in their day-to-day jobs — you’re asking them to give up a lot to go and umpire full-time,” he told SEN.​

​

Grand Final umpires Scott Jeffery, Simon Meredith and Matt Stevic are an accountant, IT consultant and teacher when they aren’t blowing the whistle. Ray Chamberlain is a finance broker.​

So what do you think the motivations are for these guys and gals? Clearly footy is not first and foremost, and in their world that is OK, bit is that good enough for football? - Are their day to day jobs the initial criteria by which we run an umpiring department for game with a revenue stream approaching a One Billion dollars!

 

[smasha]

The frustration lies totally in th free kicks received column...
Unbelievably, most all AFL teams play their cleanest footy against us...
First half yesterday, hawks give away just 5 free kicks...
Second half last week pies give away only 3 free kicks...
Astounding that AFL teams can be so clean..

This is th message that needs to be pushed by all our faithful. Hopefully the media will get onboard and change can occur... not holding my breath


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The media are loving it lol.

 

[SunshineBoy]

So more importantly, and going hand in hand, what explains the lack of positive reviews when Richmond does summit good in a match...sound of crickets...
The constant high lighting of supposed Richmond footy errors by the media!?
Seems to me like a total concerted anti Richmond bias...

I pointed out yesterday and last night and this morning ALL the Saturday games got multiple mini games on fox as well as full replays apart from 1 game, guess which one.

Conversely when we lose we get multiple replays. For the official broadcaster it’s a disgrace, last week when the druggies they got 2 full replays after their game , we got a mini at 3-30 am on Tuesday morning.

they are trying to destroy our marketing ability

 

[smasha]

The frustration lies totally in th free kicks received column...
Unbelievably, most all AFL teams play their cleanest footy against us...
First half yesterday, hawks give away just 5 free kicks...
Second half last week pies give away only 3 free kicks...
Astounding that AFL teams can be so clean..

This is th message that needs to be pushed by all our faithful. Hopefully the media will get onboard and change can occur... not holding my breath


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I reckon the swallowed whistles hurt us more.
Nearly cost us a game yesty,Castagna's non paid mark ,went up the other end for a goal,there was another 2 goal play in the game I was ropable at.

Another dose of -10 frees and a barrel of swallowed whistles next week sadly.

 

[smasha]

I pointed out yesterday and last night and this morning ALL the Saturday games got multiple mini games on fox as well as full replays apart from 1 game, guess which one.

Conversely when we lose we get multiple replays. For the official broadcaster it’s a disgrace, last week when the druggies they got 2 full replays after their game , we got a mini at 3-30 am on Tuesday morning.

they are trying to destroy our marketing ability

#weareeveryonesgrandfinal

 

[SunshineBoy]

It's time for the club to address the issue of lop-sided umpiring. The figures are striking in terms of quantity but I believe they are even more striking when we consider the overall impact of inconsistent umpiring. I believe we need to look at scoring chains and record which ones were facilitated by a free kick. If a score is a result of a free kick, whether it's awarded in defense, midfield or wherever it should be recorded as such. We then obtain a clearer understanding of how much umpiring may affect the final result. We need a representation of data so let's start with this year but can go back a couple of years to illustrate this worsening trend. Perhaps the club already has this data but I can see that opposition momentum surges and free kick runs are directly correlated. Once the data is available, if nothing else it will show that we are justified in calling it out.

It’s match fixing, the sooner people wake up the better, what betting betting company offfers 3bucks for Melbourne to beat west coast? Don’t tell me match fixing doesn’t happen

 

[Lord of the Wings]

It’s match fixing, the sooner people wake up the better, what betting betting company offfers 3bucks for Melbourne to beat west coast? Don’t tell me match fixing doesn’t happen

Its not match fixing its more that the umpires group hates us. Same same the AFL which why nothing is done about it.

Its disgusting and the only way it stops is when we become a shite team again and no one cares

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Currently anything to do with Richmond is either met with total silence or constantly highlighted...

 

[tropicaltiger]

 

[Phar Ace]

The umpires are just dumb. No brains most of them lol

I wish that were true because it could be explained more easily, but it is not true. Some of these guys are highly intelligent in highly qualified white collar jobs. Intelligence is not the be-all when it comes to footy however, and your comment proves that. It is a much more deep-rooted problem that even Freud would struggle to uncover I suspect.

Perhaps the problem won't dissipate until we are rid of the part-time element in umpiring. They need to have more hinging on there collective efforts, AND we need better management of the Umpires. Brad Scott is not the right fit for this role. Too much baggage and too conflicted for mine. The main hope will come from a concerted representation from the Players Association and Coaches peak body - they have the most at stake here in my opinion.

The other hope is through the Clubs regular meetings with the AFL.

The goal of supporting Umpires is admirable and worth pursuing, however cracking a peanut with a sledgehammer is not the way to go. Better definitions of player dissent are necessary so that frustration without abuse is still managed as an outlet. The more supposed-dissent (as it seems to be interpreted at the moment) is micro-managed by the AFL and the umpires, the more the fans are going make up the difference in terms of abuse - you can see it happening already. Make no mistake, that filters down to local levels and the frustrations at that level are much harder to control.

Commonsense has to prevail eventually or we will see some nasty and unhealthy outcomes.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Its not match fixing its more that the umpires group hates us. Same same the AFL which why nothing is done about it.

Its disgusting and the only way it stops is when we become a shite team again and no one cares

Rubbish the rules were changed to stop a side , that’s match fixing , the rules are enforced to stop a side. That’s match fixing

who changed the rules…the governing body. That’s match fixing

who controls the outcome of games? Umpires. That’s match fixing

 

[Macca180]

And finally the day Chamberlain hangs up the whistle the game will be better for it

Razor is a flipping w***er... absolutely loves himself. Complete knob.

 

[smasha]

View attachment 1400710

I have done the Box Hill trip and it seems nothing has changed,we got absolutely towelled up by the umps that day also.

 

[smasha]

 

[smasha]

The onus is now on the Umpiring department not them playing victim with the Tiger Army.

If they umpired properly,we would not even talk about it.

 

[This Is Anfield]

One of the more annoying aspects of the ridiculous stand rule is the fact that players aren’t required to line up over the mark… at Box Hill a mark was paid, defender stands like a statue but the player with the ball is already ten metres to the right, runs further right to play on and the player on the mark is left looking like an idiot!
This is not a for/against Richmond thing as it’s unfair to all teams.

 

[smasha]

One of the more annoying aspects of the ridiculous stand rule is the fact that players aren’t required to line up over the mark… at Box Hill a mark was paid, defender stands like a statue but the player with the ball is already ten metres to the right, runs further right to play on and the player on the mark is left looking like an idiot!
This is not a for/against Richmond thing as it’s unfair to all teams.

If it was an oppo player,a swallowed whistle.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

One of the more annoying aspects of the ridiculous stand rule is the fact that players aren’t required to line up over the mark… at Box Hill a mark was paid, defender stands like a statue but the player with the ball is already ten metres to the right, runs further right to play on and the player on the mark is left looking like an idiot!
This is not a for/against Richmond thing as it’s unfair to all teams.

Yeah hate that it's so stupid and looks dumb

To think of all the bullshit rules they've brought in to make the game look better and reduce stoppage/congestion...

All they needed to do was start actually calling ball up immediately when a tackle occurs (or HTB if required). Make that change and take away 5+ years of tinkering and the problem would've been alleviated.

So much time wasted with standing around a contest, same with dumb ruck nominations. Now umps are overloaded with too many complex rules and they spend half the time figuring out what to call and when. That's a big cause of the frustration because the 50/50s become less consistent and sporadic due to my whatever rules are top of mind when they go for the whistle.

 

[Spagman]

The problem lies - plain and simple - with an ever increasing number of rules open to interpretation and the umpiring structure.

Eddie McGuire's answer, MORE umpires has some merit, but his actual plan to add more umpires to the field needs exploring to be effective. Overall, there are enough umpires on the ground but they just need to have their jobs made easier and for them to be utilised better.

Currently we have - 3 central (field) umpires, 4 boundary umpires and 2 goal umpires.

Goal umpires are NOT umpires. Any time there's a question over something, their decision is always double checked and overruled by a central umpire and the video referee. They are a token appointment now, to add to the spectacle with finger raising and flag waving. That's all they do and all we expect from them, but they do not umpire the game and make no decisions on the outcome. Their job is kept simple and they do it well.

3 Central umpires are fine - this has been good to reduce fatigue and reduce the distance they have to run. Their job is the hardest one but, also responsible for 99.99% of the issues fans have, week in week out.

4 Boundary umpires are fine also - BUT are they umpires? What important decisions are they making? As they often have a different viewpoint to a field umpire they should be more involved in decision making if they see an infringement, and weigh in on a decision when the field umpire blows the whistle. In the AFL's own guidelines they instruct boundary umpires that they are involved in the following.

• Assist goal umpires with scoring decisions.
• Boundary umpire decisions related to - out of bounds and out on the full.

That's it. That's all they're asked to do, and they had their numbers increased to ease their workload and also reduce the strain from throw-ins.

Yet, in an average game 99.9% of the decision making is the key responsibility of the 3 central umpires who are working their hardest to make decisions in real-time, in a chaotic game where the ball is almost constantly moving and players are bumping into each other at almost every contest. They are also only ever able to see an incident from ONE perspective.

So why can't the AFL not see the issue here? Out of every organisation I've seen in my lifetime, the AFL is one of the only ones I've seen that actively makes their processes harder. The current mix of rules and decision making is complicated and prone to human error. Now while human error will ALWAYS be a factor, we can make the rules simpler.

We have 3 field umpires responsible for:

• An ever increasing number of rules that are open to interpretation from the angle they view an incident from that is usually different to the view of the fans, and the view of the broadcast.
• They get no assistance from boundary umpires that may view an incident differently from the other angle.
• They get no assistance from goal umpires that may also see something from a different angle.

What's the answer?

1. Simplify the rules. There are obvious rule changes that the AFL could immediately make to appear progressive, and to be listening to fans. Reduce the 50m penalty to 30m. Get rid of the stand rule. Get rid of the dissent rule (let the MRO handle that). Then review the whole AFL rule book with a mindset in making them easier to understand and umpire.
2. Allowing boundary umpires to actually be umpires. This would increase their workload yes, but currently it's minimal anyway and would not add to their physical workload.

I think that these 2 points aimed at making the rules easier and giving the field umpires more help from boundary umpires would go a long way to making fans happy and reducing these free kick discrepancies and the blatant howlers we get in every single game.

 

[Barunga Bullet]

the deliberate out of bounds against Nank in the first quarter was one of the worst umpiring decisions I have seen. He literally handballed it to Vlaustin who fumbled it under pressure over the line. It was right in front of me. I was sitting mostly amongst hawks supporters and they were of the same opinion that it was a horrible decision. Just another case of Razor making it all about himself.

 

[lvt06]

The little things annoy more than anything else.

Free kick called, whistle blown and hawks player kicks the ball after not hearing the call. NO 50m for us.
Same thing, later in the game, Bolton assumes free is for us, kicks it, 50m IS paid as per the new rule.

2 calls, same thing, different results from the umps.

 

[bc27]

The deliberate out of bounds rule has confused supporters, players, commentators and coaches.

All that rule is for is the umpire to have his moment in the game. It is literally a joke the way this rule is officiated.

 

[This Is Anfield]

No, we are all wrong! Listening to the Hawks at Box Hill yesterday we got an armchair ride!!

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

the deliberate out of bounds against Nank in the first quarter was one of the worst umpiring decisions I have seen. He literally handballed it to Vlaustin who fumbled it under pressure over the line. It was right in front of me. I was sitting mostly amongst hawks supporters and they were of the same opinion that it was a horrible decision. Just another case of Razor making it all about himself.

Yeah I hate that shit..

Looks dumb and makes no sense when a bloke can walk the ball out or punch it no contest straight out of bounds and it's less deliberate than a handball within 2ft of a player... Same deal with the forward kicks that bounce sideways OOB or whatever.

If you wanna make deliberate like that then just make it last touch over the line at least it'll be easier to call consistently. And when there's error you get over it quickly cause it happens in a tight contest.

Current frustration isn't from a lack of time to make judgement or a simple error it's from stupid interpretation and hugely varied interpretation