VFL VFL team, Sandringham alignment & player development

[Sunshine Saint]

Right, but it's Saints coaches who are picking the VFL squad and choosing who gets sent to Dev. The Gilbert in the ruck thing I do agree with is a problem, hope somebody had a word over that, especially given its a Dev game more for Sandy's benefit, they should be putting one of their guys in for the exposure.

I don't see the point in playing a VFL game with 3 ruckmen and 5 tall forwards, that sounds like a farce and wouldn't aid development at all. You'd spend all afternoon chasing little guys, or the 4th/5th guy taking easy marks - not representative of how you'd play at AFL level at all. In fact that sounds worse than playing Dev.

Not quite right. Selection at Sandringham is more like the Labor Party selection of candidates by factions number crunching, rather than the selection of the best player on merit, or club needs. There are quota numbers and irrespective of what we want, Sandringham are guaranteed a certain number of players as a minimum in the Seniors each week. Some involved will know better than me, but from memory Saints are restricted to 13 players in the Senior team at Sandy.

Its a compromise relationship, with their aim to win VFL Premierships and ours to develop our playing list. They aren't necessarily compatible, i.e. playing Gilbert in the ruck, to try and win the Development Squad game, rather than 50% game time to nurse him through, after a long term injury.

Its not disrespect to Sandringham who are a proud club and have tried to make it work, but we will be in a far, far better situation when we have our own VFL team and are playing at Moorabbin. There decisions will be made on what is best for the club, best for player development, rather than solely winning a VFL Premiership which clearly is not our first priority.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

As someone said we invested pick 25 into Spencer White knowing he would be a project player.

He will take time and I think the club will give him longer then three seasons. He has only really had one pre-season considering his first two were effected with wrist surgery.

Richo saying how White is very important to our future is saying something IMO. So he should be too.. Need the depth in KPP area, especially KPF. Remember when we had no one? Basicially just Roo?

You don't say someone is very important to the clubs future then piss him off.

Also frustrated with him being sent to the reserves. Worrying about his confidence.

Same time last year people were calling for us to trade Seb Ross another player who was always going to take time.

I think some people need to be a bit more patient.

Ahhhh common sense. The most rare and precious of all.

 

[ike2112]

Not quite right. Selection at Sandringham is more like the Labor Party selection of candidates by factions number crunching, rather than the selection of the best player on merit, or club needs. There are quota numbers and irrespective of what we want, Sandringham are guaranteed a certain number of players as a minimum in the Seniors each week. Some involved will know better than me, but from memory Saints are restricted to 13 players in the Senior team at Sandy.

It's 15 Saints as a quota, and they can have more if they choose (though haven't done so since Saints announced intent to split). The team is picked by a 5-man committee, 3 of whom are Saints employees.

I do agree though these latest two incidents aren't great. It's the opposite of 2013 when Sandy were in close games then all the key forwards were rested for the 4th Qtr by McPhee/Watters.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

It's 15 Saints as a quota, and they can have more if they choose (though haven't done so since Saints announced intent to split). The team is picked by a 5-man committee, 3 of whom are Saints employees.

I do agree though these latest two incidents aren't great. It's the opposite of 2013 when Sandy were in close games then all the key forwards were rested for the 4th Qtr by McPhee/Watters.

As I said far from ideal for Sandringham either, best for both parties when we are stand alone.

 

[bird_man]

I don't know Paddy's are much ahead of White's or maybe they have different markers to me. Josh Saunders getting 27 possessions and a couple of goals aren't as good as another players 10 a 1. Lee is named in the best a few weeks in a row in the backline and not even an emergency pat on the back. I just think if we are going to ditch some these guys they could at least give them a few games to see if they are up to it first. Some players make play some players play better along side better players. I spoke to him preseason and he is well aware of his deficiencies and is working hard on them. He said his fitness had gone up and that he was working on the defensive side of his game.

When McCartin came into the side he was coming off a game where he had 7 shots at goal while Spencer was struggling.

Saunders finds a bit of the footy in the VFL but his skills are not at afl standard, maybe Richo want him to work on that.

As for Lee, it's been a while since he has played in the backline, were you expecting him to come straight in after a couple of good games? Who's spot would he have taken?

Just about everyone was given a go last year, even TDL and Dunnell who were 99.9% gone. Spencer wasn't setting the world on fire but he was given a taste last year. I don't think anyone has the right to feel hard done by.

 

[Rors]

So which is it with Spencer?

Is he the 4-5 year project player, who needs to constantly work at his game, continue to develop, and work his way into AFL level?

Or is he shitty with the coaches (as some are alluding too), wants to play AFL level right now, and wants to seek a trade at season's end to start afresh?

Seriously, if it's the latter, he can get ****ed, as he does not do anywhere near enough that is required to be a consistent VFL player, let alone an AFL player! It's easy to have a high opinion of your worth that no one else can see, how'd it work out for Mitch Thorp?

This thread is full of mixed messages (re: White) - he's regarded as a project player by the club, but some on here allude to the fact he personally feels harshly done by.... I don't get it.

Play well consistently & you'll get rewarded.... Pretty ****ing simple if you ask me. HTFU kid & get on with it

 

[VDS66]

If Spencer wants out and wants to be picked up by another club, then he's not doing himself any favours by playing the way he is.

we can crap on about development and lack of opportunities and coaches favourites all day long, but in the end it's up to him to make his case for selection.

That a raw Paddy was selected ahead of him is an indictment on his form.

 

[Defacto]

It's 15 Saints as a quota, and they can have more if they choose (though haven't done so since Saints announced intent to split). The team is picked by a 5-man committee, 3 of whom are Saints employees.

I do agree though these latest two incidents aren't great. It's the opposite of 2013 when Sandy were in close games then all the key forwards were rested for the 4th Qtr by McPhee/Watters.

richo said they wanted white in but couldnt do to "numbers" then went on to say if it was a standalone side we wouldnt have these issues

not sure how anyone can argue around this TBH

the last part is correct, however, thats what happens in alignments

 

[Defacto]

So which is it with Spencer?

Is he the 4-5 year project player, who needs to constantly work at his game, continue to develop, and work his way into AFL level?

Or is he shitty with the coaches (as some are alluding too), wants to play AFL level right now, and wants to seek a trade at season's end to start afresh?

Seriously, if it's the latter, he can get stuffed, as he does not do anywhere near enough that is required to be a consistent VFL player, let alone an AFL player! It's easy to have a high opinion of your worth that no one else can see, how'd it work out for Mitch Thorp?

This thread is full of mixed messages (re: White) - he's regarded as a project player by the club, but some on here allude to the fact he personally feels harshly done by.... I don't get it.

Play well consistently & you'll get rewarded.... Pretty ******* simple if you ask me. HTFU kid & get on with it

hang on... since when has white said he feels hard done by? let alone wanting a trade?

 

[SK_MD_#7]

hang on... since when has white said he feels hard done by? let alone wanting a trade?

Someone on bigfooty said he wants a trade.

Must be true surely. I mean, remember how Ross and Joey wanted a trade this time last year?

 

[dewah07]

Someone on bigfooty said he wants a trade.

Must be true surely. I mean, remember how Ross and Joey wanted a trade this time last year?

Which idiot was that.

Also if spenccccca did play in the dev team today he didn't kick any goals which is really disappointing for him

 

[Defacto]

If Spencer wants out and wants to be picked up by another club, then he's not doing himself any favours by playing the way he is.

we can crap on about development and lack of opportunities and coaches favourites all day long, but in the end it's up to him to make his case for selection.

That a raw Paddy was selected ahead of him is an indictment on his form.

the issue is not whites form IMO thats going to always happen with a young tall, not even 3 years in.

the issue is that his development is now being affected by an alignment that means we cannot develop the players exactly the way we want to

richo summarised it in the interview saying players will have bad days in the VFL and will look completely out of place but its important they stay in the seniors so they can learn from it over time. defenders will stand out more, tall fwds after that.

 

[Hrovat24]

White isn't playing at all today he is jogging laps

 

[dewah07]

White isn't playing at all today he is jogging laps

That's actually the best news of the day, thought he went goalless in the dev league. Maybe saints and sandy clashed over it and the outcome was no game time

 

[Hrovat24]

That's actually the best news of the day, thought he went goalless in the dev league. Maybe saints and sandy clashed over it and the outcome was no game time

I'm not a hundred per cent but a mate just text me that

 

[dewah07]

I'm not a hundred per cent but a mate just text me that

All good, it didn't really make sense why he didn't kick any goals or get an update on Twitter about his game

 

[Defacto]

White isn't playing at all today he is jogging laps

i hope thats a case of the club or the player sticking the middle finger up at the development squad

i get sandy are their own entity and need to find their own players but i'm surprised there wasnt more anger when they went out and signed up mitch brown, given the amount of talls we have brought into the club. holmes, pierce, hickey/longer (one of which was going to spend time in the VFL), white, mccartin, membrey, siposs (now injured but would have spent time there)

 

[Hrovat24]

i hope thats a case of the club or the player sticking the middle finger up at the development squad

i get sandy are their own entity and need to find their own players but i'm surprised there wasnt more anger when they went out and signed up mitch brown, given the amount of talls we have brought into the club. holmes, pierce, hickey/longer (one of which was going to spend time in the VFL), white, mccartin, membrey, siposs (now injured but would have spent time there)

I honestly think that it would have been good for him to get a kill under his belt

 

[dewah07]

i hope thats a case of the club or the players sticking the middle finger up at the development squad

i get sandy are their own entity and need to find their own players but i'm surprised there wasnt more anger when they went out and signed up mitch brown, given the amount of talls we have brought into the club. holmes, pierce, hickey/longer (one of which was going to spend time in the VFL), white, mccartin, membrey, siposs (now injured but would have spent time there)

Problem is our injury list is to short, and we are only allowed to play 18(I think) saints players in the sandy team. So
22 +18 =40 leaves 5 out worst case and that doesn't take into account NZ players and any other catB rookies on our list now and in the future

 

[Defacto]

I honestly think that it would have been good for him to get a kill under his belt

i disagree. apparently last year when he was sent to the dev league he attracted some attention from dev league hero's trying to rough him up

unless he kicks 5, people will start banging their jungle drums and given richos concern about his confidence, i'd rather rest him. thats before you consider the other incident with the dev team coaches not following our instructions

the disapointing thing for white, is given the couple of goals he kicked in the death to get sandy back in it last week, he would have built up some confidence to go into this week with. thats been squashed now

 

[dewah07]

Does peta searle do anything to do with sandy on match day anymore? If so does she work double duty on the dev team?

 

[Hrovat24]

i disagree. apparently last year when he was sent to the dev league he attracted some attention from dev league hero's trying to rough him up

unless he kicks 5, people will start banging their jungle drums and given richos concern about his confidence, i'd rather rest him. thats before you consider the other incident with the dev team coaches not following our instructions

Hopefully he can put it all together he has the ability no one doubts that , I'm just not sure he has it in the head or heart , I have watched at least 6 of his games at vfl level and wasn't impressed with his work rate and he doesn't like body contact , not trolling here just want to tell you guys how I see it as I hope you would do the same with one of the dogs young players

 

[Defacto]

Hopefully he can put it all together he has the ability no one doubts that , I'm just not sure he has it in the head or heart , I have watched at least 6 of his games at vfl level and wasn't impressed with his work rate and he doesn't like body contact , not trolling here just want to tell you guys how I see it as I hope you would do the same with one of the dogs young players

yeh you're not the only one who thinks that. i think even richo has raised the issue with his intensity and work rate. ive only seen highlights but he looks to have improved on that compared to last year though

the best thing for him would be to have a solid run in the VFL and not worry about being dropped to the development league. just needs consistency

 

[dewah07]

Hopefully he can put it all together he has the ability no one doubts that , I'm just not sure he has it in the head or heart , I have watched at least 6 of his games at vfl level and wasn't impressed with his work rate and he doesn't like body contact , not trolling here just want to tell you guys how I see it as I hope you would do the same with one of the dogs young players

I don't think anyone could argue that, I think he has tho year and next year to show consistent improvement, I'm using the basketball philosophy but if u don't show u have or can take the next step in 4 years then you are who you are

 

[Hrovat24]

yeh you're not the only one who thinks that. i think even richo has raised the issue with his intensity and work rate. ive only seen highlights but he looks to have improved on that compared to last year though

the best thing for him would be to have a solid run in the VFL and not worry about being dropped to the development league. just needs consistency

He leads once if ignored he gives up , with the body contact maybe it's because they were trying to give it to him knowing he doesn't like it ?