VFL VFL team, Sandringham alignment & player development

[Defacto]

Unfortunately we have no one to blame but ourselves by not having a stand alone side yet. Very disappointing.

I still don't understand even with the cap how White doesn't make the best side though? Had a pretty good game last week by all reports.

well as richo said, sandy need to find 50 players inside a couple of years and they need to play them so they dont leave and they also want to win. so our need to develop a key tall fwd has come off 2nd best

just so angry right now

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

thats how i took it as well

sounded like the ABSOLUTE last thing he wanted to happen. sounded like he was worried about whites confidence which to me suggests thats one of the challenges they have with him

i am seriously pissed off

2017 can't come quick enough....

I can't wait to see a VFL side that wear out colours, play our brand, and players play where the coaches want them to....

 

[Defacto]

2017 can't come quick enough....

I can't wait to see a VFL side that wear out colours, play our brand, and players play where the coaches want them to....

i agree, hope it also means some players stick around in the VFL rather than outright retire

 

[bird_man]

2017 can't come quick enough....

I can't wait to see a VFL side that wear out colours, play our brand, and players play where the coaches want them to....

Playing at Moorabin

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

i agree, hope it also means some players stick around in the VFL rather than outright retire

Hadn't thought of that - good call....

 

[Lord_Bumfluff]

Is Spencer out of contract at years end?

 

[SK_MD_#7]

Is Spencer out of contract at years end?

Yes.

 

[Lord_Bumfluff]

Hope he stays, could have a ridiculous forward line in years to come with Spence, Membrey, Paddy Bruce etc

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Thanks Sandy, but I also can't wait to be rid of them.

 

[Periphery]

listen to this on Audioboo

 

[Periphery]

Having only 4 players on the injury list creates some real competition.

 

[ike2112]

hopefully SEN upload the audio with richo from today but there was some very very interesting comments in regards to stand alone vs alignment, especially in regards to control, coaching and also the seniors/cap debate we had on here earlier in the year

after i copped it earlier in the year and was told there would not be a player playing development squad due to the cap/that didnt deserve it, well its going to happen this weekend. spencer white, at no fault of his own, will be forced to play in the development squad. richo has had to go out of his way to make sure whites confidence is not affected by it and elaborated in detail how its not great and you need young players playing against VFL seniors and other AFL listed players. also elaborated on how theres more to winning for your VFL side that your AFL listed players play in, he cited the boxhill 2008 side as an example

so if i wasnt angry enough after hearing that

he then went on to talk about gilbert and how they were not happy that gilbert in the development squad was not played as per the clubs instruction. gilbert apparently was thrown into the ruck after having such a long lay off. this was an example of how in a standalone side you just wouldnt have this occur as you have your own coaches

so not only are we sacrificing the development of our younger player we've also had an injury prone senior player after such a long rehabilitation thrown into a risky scenario so a development side has a better chance of winning a game. a development side! not even a senior VFL side

our most important asset is our players especially our younger ones and their development. we've invested millions into their development, it is probably THE primary focus of our football department, yet we currently have a system/arrangement that means their development is less than optimal.

what a joke

The coaches at Sandy are Hudson and Peta - Saints employees. So he's got a serious issue if people who are employed by the Saints aren't following his wishes.

Didn't say this would NEVER happen, said it will happen barely 3 or 4 times during the year based on previous seasons, that a Saints player will play Dev. And the discussion was around whether avoiding those few instances was worth the $ per year and having to look after 30+ other players, especially now we have to raise cash for Moorabbin (btw, I can see alignment end date getting pushed out again).

 

[ike2112]

Also it works both ways - here we have Paddy, White and Membrey all wanting a game in VFL, but Mitch Brown also holding a spot too.

If we were stand-alone, then Brown is out of the equation, and the 3 play. But if we were stand-alone and Roo was out, and say Membrey injured, then Paddy plays VFL as a lone tall forward (or maybe we have a lesser squad player to also play Fwd). He doesn't get to play in a true 3-tall structure, as we don't have enough players, also affecting his development.

 

[saint_]

We have about 12-13 players out of contract this year, so its not like White is only one of few out of contract (assuming his gone). We picked him at #26 in the draft. I can't how we could draft someone highly and then develop him for a few years then delist him.

 

[Defacto]

The coaches at Sandy are Hudson and Peta - Saints employees. So he's got a serious issue if people who are employed by the Saints aren't following his wishes.

Didn't say this would NEVER happen, said it will happen barely 3 or 4 times during the year based on previous seasons, that a Saints player will play Dev. And the discussion was around whether avoiding those few instances was worth the $ per year and having to look after 30+ other players, especially now we have to raise cash for Moorabbin (btw, I can see alignment end date getting pushed out again).

the issue is that hudson and peta do not coach the development squad, so i'm not sure where your comment is coming from. i suspect you made your mind up to defend the alignment before you read the post, rather than looking at it subjectively

obviously given what happened to gilbert, the obvious thing is we need involvement in the dev coaches box if one of our players is playing

you keep raising the cash thing. its an absolute non issue, its small given how much we already invest in player development. we already have the staff

whats an extra 200-300k (doubt its anywhere near this much but lets just take the total WAFL club salary cap) when we already invest significantly more than that per a player we draft

 

[Defacto]

Also it works both ways - here we have Paddy, White and Membrey all wanting a game in VFL, but Mitch Brown also holding a spot too.

If we were stand-alone, then Brown is out of the equation, and the 3 play. But if we were stand-alone and Roo was out, and say Membrey injured, then Paddy plays VFL as a lone tall forward (or maybe we have a lesser squad player to also play Fwd). He doesn't get to play in a true 3-tall structure, as we don't have enough players, also affecting his development.

it happens and means very little compared to blokes missing games or risking injury. peel went in with 5/6 FWDS being taller than 195cm, 2-3 ruckman

whats important is they get an opportunity to play against the best. you will always find players you can call up as well

 

[Defacto]

We have about 12-13 players out of contract this year, so its not like White is only one of few out of contract (assuming his gone). We picked him at #26 in the draft. I can't how we could draft someone highly and then develop him for a few years then delist him.

great call

funny how spencer is the subject of all the negativity though

 

[SK_MD_#7]

great call

funny how spencer is the subject of all the negativity though

Future of White, McCartin, Bruce and Membrey assuming all reach potential would be scary good. (Dwayne Russell there!)

Would be absolutely exciting to watch.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

As someone said we invested pick 25 into Spencer White knowing he would be a project player.

He will take time and I think the club will give him longer then three seasons. He has only really had one pre-season considering his first two were effected with wrist surgery.

Richo saying how White is very important to our future is saying something IMO. So he should be too.. Need the depth in KPP area, especially KPF. Remember when we had no one? Basicially just Roo?

You don't say someone is very important to the clubs future then piss him off.

Also frustrated with him being sent to the reserves. Worrying about his confidence.

Same time last year people were calling for us to trade Seb Ross another player who was always going to take time.

I think some people need to be a bit more patient.

 

[Defacto]

As someone said we invested pick 25 into Spencer White knowing he would be a project player.

He will take time and I think the club will give him longer then three seasons. He has only really had one pre-season considering his first two were effected with wrist surgery.

Richo saying how White is very important to our future is saying something IMO. So he should be too.. Need the depth in KPP area, especially KPF. Remember when we had no one? Basicially just Roo?

You don't say someone is very important to the clubs future then pis him off.

Also frustrated with him being sent to the reserves. Worrying about his confidence.

Same time last year people were calling for us to trade Seb Ross another player who was always going to take time.

I think some people need to be a bit more patient.

"he's a bloody important player" i think the club seriously has him in their plans, pitty about sandy throwing a spanner in the works

 

[Kilroy]

Putting two and two together, it's the club that will force Spencer out. I don't buy coach PR talk, it means very little and differs greatly to whats discussed in the inner sanctum.

(regarding Spencer)

On the Coaches Box on SEN:
SEN - "Do coaches ever say something to their players behind closed doors, and then come to the media and say something completely the opposite?"
Richo - "Ah, yeah."

Full points to Richo again for honesty. Nevertheless, I do believe he was being genuine about Spencer's value to us and that he still has time to show us what he's got.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

"he's a bloody important player" i think the club seriously has him in their plans, pitty about sandy throwing a spanner in the works

Absolutely.

He has all the tools and talent to burn. Once it clicks for him and that defensive side is fixed up + loses a bit of lazy ness he could be an absolute brilliant player.

I'm confident it'll click for him.

Showed in his two games how good he is offensively kicking three on debut and could've had 3-4 against Adelaide. Just the defensive game letting him down at the moment and working a bit harder.

After his two games everyone was frothing over him! Now same people don't want to be patient with him.

 

[gringo2011]

Cant agree with this, the only reason a player wont get a game is because Richo and match committee don't think the player is meeting his KPI just have a look a Whites VFL stats not that impressive, I would rather him earn his spot then him be gifted a game. Didn't we say these things about Ledger how is he going ? If Spencer is cracking the shits instead of putting his head down and working his ass off get rid him. Only had to watch the young kids against the Bombers to see that the coaches message is getting through

I don't know Paddy's are much ahead of White's or maybe they have different markers to me. Josh Saunders getting 27 possessions and a couple of goals aren't as good as another players 10 a 1. Lee is named in the best a few weeks in a row in the backline and not even an emergency pat on the back. I just think if we are going to ditch some these guys they could at least give them a few games to see if they are up to it first. Some players make play some players play better along side better players. I spoke to him preseason and he is well aware of his deficiencies and is working hard on them. He said his fitness had gone up and that he was working on the defensive side of his game.

He is a genuine young guy who seems quite intense but keeps his cards close to his chest, he seems quite introverted and probably doesn't bounce off the coaches and other players who become favourites. Paddy is a big friendly open loveable guy who would be fitting in very easily. Lee is at the other end of the spectrum, very overly chatty, confident and could rub people up the wrong way with his in your face personality.

 

[ike2112]

the issue is that hudson and peta do not coach the development squad, so i'm not sure where your comment is coming from.

Right, but it's Saints coaches who are picking the VFL squad and choosing who gets sent to Dev. The Gilbert in the ruck thing I do agree with is a problem, hope somebody had a word over that, especially given its a Dev game more for Sandy's benefit, they should be putting one of their guys in for the exposure.

I don't see the point in playing a VFL game with 3 ruckmen and 5 tall forwards, that sounds like a farce and wouldn't aid development at all. You'd spend all afternoon chasing little guys, or the 4th/5th guy taking easy marks - not representative of how you'd play at AFL level at all. In fact that sounds worse than playing Dev.

 

[Defacto]

Right, but it's Saints coaches who are picking the VFL squad and choosing who gets sent to Dev. The Gilbert in the ruck thing I do agree with is a problem, hope somebody had a word over that, especially given its a Dev game more for Sandy's benefit, they should be putting one of their guys in for the exposure.

I don't see the point in playing a VFL game with 3 ruckmen and 5 tall forwards, that sounds like a farce and wouldn't aid development at all. You'd spend all afternoon chasing little guys, or the 4th/5th guy taking easy marks - not representative of how you'd play at AFL level at all. In fact that sounds worse than playing Dev.

you can atleast cycle who they are on/what their role is and playing against the best of the 2nd tier is much much much better than the 3rd tier

dont take my word for it, listen to the richo interview