Carlton the least travelled team this year and a pretty cushy run home too. But the Pies get a pile on? I don't get it.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2
- Thread starter Hank Heavenly
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sr36
TheBrownDog
It's nonsense when you're only seeing disadvantages and not advantages - even though many of the non-Vic clubs do have some pretty obvious ones. And it's nonsense when you're blowing up the disadvantages to enormous levels - completely ignoring the vast majority of available data and only selecting the data that suits your victim narrative. Data which overall actually suggests a really even competition, which judging by the equalisation measures that have been put in place has clearly been a goal of the AFL.
What don’t you get? The big 4 in Vic are in stone, we will jump on them with all our might at AFL house to make sure they reap the benefits.
Is it actually legal for a league to barrack openly for certain clubs they are supposed to be neutral in running?
Oh well tough sh*t, looks like you're not getting it.
You can't gauge emotions from behind a keyboard Jack.
And demand away, looks like you're not getting your demands met.
Unless you are Dillon or one of his cronies I can't take you seriously.
Well you certainly can’t take anyone at AFL house seriously.
Who cares?
Legal? What do you mean? AFL are propping up several non Vic teams.
Pies have a tough run home. Carlton have the cushy run this year. I don't get the Pies pile on.
Yes, agreed, I retract my statement
I think there is a storm coming in the AFL corridors and it will be an interesting watch .
Is it legal for a league to barrack for certain teams to be strong?
sr36
TheBrownDog
Pies tick all the boxes. Reigning premiers. Heaps of blockbusters. 14 games at the GF venue. Heaps of luck with father son, which the WCE crew have long considered a Vic conspiracy, despite the fact that their haul of Ashley McIntosh, Ben Cousins and now Waterman beats the hell out of what most Vic clubs have gotten from it - you see the illustrious great Cale Morton didn't quite qualify, which had a devasting impact on the Eagles.
- Moderator
- #413
The data doesnt change the travel requirements. And thats the biggest one there is. There has not been an equalisation policy that has addressed this fact - Victorian clubs will travel less than non victorian clubs.
THe narrative is "oh they won anyway so it doesnt matter" is utter bullshit.
Look Im all for the "this is what you signed up for" team and Ive said as much before, but to ignore the fact that there ARE in fact disadvantages that these teams have to beat - and have, is just so incredibly stupid.
sherb
Hall of Famer
There's a pretty popular Rugby League forum, I can't say for sure but I'd imagine there would be a fair number of similar type complaints and whinges happening there.
Same same only different mate
Sure travel isn't equal, but in what competition is it ever equal?
Teams from remote isolated cities end up clocking up more kms than those who live in major metropolitan hubs.
Arsenal play 26 EPL games in London, but Newcastle only get 19 in Newcastle.
West Coast NBA teams like Portland and LA teams can travel close to 80K km in a season, whilst teams like Detroit barely reach 50K km.
NFL is the same, LA chargers will travel 26K miles but the Cincinatti Bengals only 11K miles next season.
And people continue to whinge and sook about travel being a factor, but where is the correlation between less travel = more wins?
Playing away at a neutral venue (where the home team also has travelled) compared to playing away at your opponents home ground (where players are at home) is clearly a reduced disadvantage.
Unless people think that
1 - travel isnt a disadvantage
2 - that the ground has nothing to do with HGA
3 - playing in front of your fans has nothing to do with HGA.
EPL has 7 of 20, not half but close enough.
And I am unaware of nuffie Newcastle fans thinking that the London based teams should play less games in London to make it 'fair'.
Correct, it was AFL House policy.
The Melbourne based clubs then scrambled for the scraps. Unlike WA, SA, Sydney and Brisbane...none get all their home games at a preferred home ground.
Results are clear, in the 21st century the teams that have failed to finish top4, make GFs and win premierships have been the Melbourne based teams.
- Moderator
- #418
I dont know about Illegal. Certainly the league hasnt complained about the Swans or Lions successes. Im sure theyd like the Giants and Suns to get a wriggle on. SA and WA are largely able to look after themselves through supply and demand.
Victoria is a little different in that the leagues coffers are actively affected by events in Victoria - particuarly in attendance, sponsorship and tv markets. Scheduling is going to reflect commercial reality driven by broadcasters and sponsors. As long as Victoria remains the largest market for the AFL, this isnt going to change.
sr36
TheBrownDog
Is it? Players and coaching staff win games of footy. Do you think that Freo wouldn't be at the top if they had top coahes and had gotten Heeney, Mills, Gulden, Blakey as draft concessions? Or Moore, Daicos Daicos and IQ? I think if you plugged either of those groups of 4 into Freo and took them out of the clubs where they are, they'd smash the competition with or without travel.
Don't underestimate the advantages that the academy teams have. Nor the advantages that WA teams have by being only two clubs in such a big market which gets all games plugged into that market as FTA games. THere's 6 of your 8 terribly disadvantaged clubs. Adelaide also in a very strong position in terms of the market share gifted to them by the AFL.
Port are the only club that can compare themselves to Nth, STk, WB, Melb and Geelong. Yes Geelong are in there, they've just been incredibly well run and worked their unique location magnificently and turned an histroical geographical disadvantage into an advantage.
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Suns and Giants and Swans? The league wants them to succeed. Legality is about crimes, not sport.
- Moderator
- #421
England is 1/3rd the size of Victoria.
NBA clubs play games in an indoor venue that is the size of a postage stamp and travel by private jet, with facilities that AFL clubs can only dream of.
NFL player travel by private jet, not crammed into Virgin economy like the Swans were last week. See NBA players.
That the travel factor is overcome doesnt mean its not a factor.
If you seriously think that traveling 10 minutes further up the road from Docklands to the MCG can be equated to flying 3000 miles in a cramped aircraft, then sure they are the same, and the HGA is identical.
You keep saying this like it means something. Brisbane hasnt won a grand final since 2003, Fremantle never have. Port Adelaide havent since 2004, the Suns and Giants havent. 15 of the last 23 Premiers have been Victorian sides. So you mean West Coast and Sydney. (2/8 non vic teams as opposed to 6/10 Victorian sides since 2000)
- Moderator
- #422
I mean you could plug those 4 players into any team and theyd go alright. Any team that took top coaches and made smart picks would.
I would care less if Victorian clubs didnt have father son.
Which advantage do you think they gain by this exactly? Their average tv audience is half that of a Melbourne afternoon audience and Foxtels penetration in Wa is a fraction of what it is in Victoria. National programming that comes through fox and Seven and even the ABC favours the Victorian clubs. Their distribution from the broadcast rights from the league is absolutely base level.
In terms of actual sponsorship revenue, the WA clubs dont make much more than a low Melbourne club. Where they do make a lot of money is from a very favourable stadium deal, and the hospitality income that brings with it.
Crammed? It's a short flight, like sitting at home watching a movie or game for 2 hours.
sr36
TheBrownDog
It's just a heap of looking for something to complain about.
Personally I think that Vic clubs are being absolutely fleeced by a colder climate and should be allowed an extra 10 players on our lists to compensate #qldbias and that's before we get into the shitty traffic combined with the weathers rolling cumulative impact on player wellbeing:
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Yep, and has 7 teams in the one city.
Nobody complains that London teams play extra games in London.
But it doesnt stop WA wowsers thinking the AFL should fix geography.
Not sure what relevance the size of the court or the venue being indoor has to do with travel?
They run a professional league where players actually experience an arduous travel load, and the load is completely inequitable based on team location.
You dont have Portland fans campaigning for Detroit and Chicago to play home games in Portland in an attempt to add some more miles to their schedule.
But hey, it doesnt stop WA wowsers thinking the AFL should address geography.
So if you put AFL players in their own plane, the travel impost goes away.
Brilliant easy solution, Eagles just need to buy their own plane.
It means that it is massively overblown.
Especially for a team like Sydney, they have 1 hr flights with no time zone change.
Actually having a home ground advantage and then being familiar at away venues is a much bigger advantage then the perils of a 1hr flight.
Go look at VFL history.
Home ground advantage was much bigger then, and ALL teams were just up the road.
Pies v Carlton at PP, Blues won 63%
Pies v Carlton at VP, Pies won 63%
Home advantage and away disadvantage also existed in WAFL and SANFL competitions.
The ground is the important bit, not travel or where you sleep.
Which again is why AFL House policy to ignore the ground aspect in Melbourne and shunt clubs between grounds based on stadium deals has disadvantage Melbourne based teams and favoured non-Melbourne based teams.
It should be obvious, but the WA wowser tries to pretend that any game in Melbourne is an advantage regardless of the ground...a complete nonsense.
8 of the 15 were won by Geelong and Hawthorn.
Geelong has a home ground advantage, and enjoy reduced away disadvantage as they are very familiar at the Melbourne grounds.
Hawthorn travel 9-10 times a season, the same as Sydney and the SA teams. Travelling 4-5 times a year to a venue that no other teams play enabled them to create a unique ground advantage.
The stats are there for all to see, teams that retain a ground advantage dominate the H&A ladder, and are constantly in finals and playing in GFs.
The Melbourne teams - are the battlers who suffer as a result of AFL House policy that shunted them into a couple of generic grounds where none actually have any ground advantage anymore.
WA teams have to travel further, but travel is just one minor factor in the overall picture.
