Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[cartwright]

The WAFC seems to be against a third WA team, and AFL CEO Dillon also seems to agree with this. A WA3 team will increase the derby matches.

Will west coast change their name? I think they should.

( and hopefully they change their song… again …. ) soooo much history with that club

Probably the colours too. Why not?

 

[Carringbush2010]

And its also worth noting that it was predicted that the VFL would go west with or without the WAFC getting a licence.

• 1986, July 10. A report by Richard Colless, Peter Fogarty and John Walker is presented to the WAFL stating that 1) an expanded VFL was inevitable. 2) a composite team was the way forward. 3) Control of the team should rest with the WAFL. 4) The VFL would expand to WA by other means if the WAFL teams didnt support the composite option.

Then it's highly likely that the vic fans wouldn't followed that club, they would've followed their clubs wherever they ended up like Fitzroy now.

A composite vic team in the wafl would've failed badly.

Would've clubs like the Pies and Tiges folded? Maybe, but given they've always had high public interest and profile it's likely they would've been revived anyway.

I also find it surprising that wa fans so readily jumped on the composite team bandwagon given their disdain for the vfl.

 

[doppleganger]

The economics support Collingwood playing West Coast and Freo away where they get 50,000 plus as opposed to at Marvel where they get less than 40,000.

Massive miss, standard for the WA wowsers.

WC get 50k basically to all home games if they aren't hopeless.

If it is GC as the away team you get 52k, if it is GWS you get 54k, if it is StK or North also get 54k.

And a big Derby gets what 57-58k.

So sending the Pies will get what 56k, a measly 2k crowd bump (3% over sending basically any other team).

Compare to a place like QLD. The Suns, they avg what 12-13k crowds at Cararra. But Pies have drawn 3 20K+ crowds. So yes to get an extra 10k fans the AFL sends Collingwood to play GC. Similar with Lions, they avg 27k at the GABBA when doing well, but the pies get 35k+ for their games.

It should be pretty clear why the Pies are sent to QLD and NSW more than over to WA.

This also applies to Pies away games against the likes of North and Saints. So why do the economic priorities apply more to Victorian teams than non-Victorian teams?

Again it is ****ing obvious, North getting 40k to a home game v Pies or get sub 20k v Freo.

So of course North prefer to play Freo in Tassie and want to keep the 40k home crowd.

The problem is the AFL House only wanted two stadiums in Melbourne, costing Melbourne based clubs home ground advantage.

From an economics perspective it makes sense to put a 3rd team in WA.

It is all obvious stuff.

 

[peetoo]

It’s like several teams complaining they don’t get many MCG games didnt happen

 

[sr36]

Blockbusters have ruined the sport, Pies Saints pulled multiple 80K plus crowds, North during the ninety's regularly featured in the top 10 attended games. It took years for Pies/Melb Queens/Kings b'day game to out attend games previously held on that day.

I agree with you. The Melbourne locked in double headers are a load of rubbish.

And most years they don't even make sense as blockbusters. At the end of last year Collingwood Essendon drew 74000 and I'd assume very little tv interest from neutrals. When Saints or North and Collingwood are good, you're going to get a bigger crowd and tv audience than that.

All it's doing is entrenching and exaggerating the relative sizes of the clubs, as it's a policy that makes the big clubs more attractive to kids.

I don't think the AFL can do anything regarding the extra broadcaster focus on big clubs, but they shouldn't feed into it with fixturing.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Why should Vic fans sook, because "you were here first"?

You should like a toddler having a tantrum, after being given chocolates for a year and now having to share because you have a baby brother or sister.

"No it's mine"
"I was here first"
"Go away"
"I hate you"

That is exactly what your post is saying.

Your club sold your right to a state VFL away for our money. Bitch to them, not to us. If you don't like it, ask your club to move to a VFL comp.

Oh wah!

I'm not the one bitchin and moaning, it's all you non Vic's.

I'm explaining that the league is what it is, you all don't like, don't bitch to us bitch to the league or better still just leave if it's so bad.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Oh wah!

I'm not the one bitchin and moaning, it's all you non Vic's.

I'm explaining that the league is what it is, you all don't like, don't bitch to us bitch to the league or better still just leave if it's so bad.

Well if you can’t bitch on BF mate where the he’ll can you?
This is exactly the place the fans can.
You need to stop worrying and not replying. Seems to bother you a lot. Just go to another thread mate. Heaps of them on your beloved Pies.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Well if you can’t bitch on BF mate where the he’ll can you?
This is exactly the place the fans can.
You need to stop worrying and not replying. Seems to bother you a lot. Just go to another thread mate. Heaps of them on your beloved Pies.

I'm not worried or bothered, just explaining you can't demand what is detriment to foundation clubs and their fans.

If posters don't like it they can either go to another thread or keep complaining in futility. Couldn't care less

 

[LoungeLizard]

Well if you can’t bitch on BF mate where the he’ll can you?
This is exactly the place the fans can.
You need to stop worrying and not replying. Seems to bother you a lot. Just go to another thread mate. Heaps of them on your beloved Pies.

Do you really think we're worried.
Like I said, in the early 80's I lived in Perth, this was going on way back then, it's still going now, I wouldn't miss it for the world, it's better than the footy.
Just for a little while, try think like you're a Vic club supporter, you will realise how funny this all is.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Do you really think we're worried.
Like I said, in the early 80's I lived in Perth, this was going on way back then, it's still going now, I wouldn't miss it for the world, it's better than the footy.
Just for a little while, try think like you're a Vic club supporter, you will realise how funny this all is.

Of course your not worried, life is pretty good being a Pies fan.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Of course your not worried, life is pretty good being a Pies fan.

Mate, go through the thread and all the other threads like this.

I will bet you will find over 100 things that WC should get to help them out.

Remember years ago how travel caused cancer, I think that one was if you fly too high for too long, so only Western Australians were affected?

If you want to know why they are all called sooks, go have a look.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Mate, go through the thread and all the other threads like this.

I will bet you will find over 100 things that WC should get to help them out.

Remember years ago how travel caused cancer, I think that one was if you fly too high for too long, so only Western Australians were affected?

If you want to know why they are all called sooks, go have a look.

Mate I read them as well, I am in the same thread. Sometimes I just shake my head especially about travel as geography cannot be changed.
There is also still plenty who deny HGA on GF day doesn’t exist, shake my head at that as well.
BF provides the humour we all need to get through the week.
For those who take it personal and to seriously well I guess that’s their choice, I try not to lose any sleep over any of it.

 

[VicBased]

Massive miss, standard for the WA wowsers.

WC get 50k basically to all home games if they aren't hopeless.

If it is GC as the away team you get 52k, if it is GWS you get 54k, if it is StK or North also get 54k.

And a big Derby gets what 57-58k.

So sending the Pies will get what 56k, a measly 2k crowd bump (3% over sending basically any other team).

Compare to a place like QLD. The Suns, they avg what 12-13k crowds at Cararra. But Pies have drawn 3 20K+ crowds. So yes to get an extra 10k fans the AFL sends Collingwood to play GC. Similar with Lions, they avg 27k at the GABBA when doing well, but the pies get 35k+ for their games.

It should be pretty clear why the Pies are sent to QLD and NSW more than over to WA.


Again it is ****ing obvious, North getting 40k to a home game v Pies or get sub 20k v Freo.

So of course North prefer to play Freo in Tassie and want to keep the 40k home crowd.

The problem is the AFL House only wanted two stadiums in Melbourne, costing Melbourne based clubs home ground advantage.

From an economics perspective it makes sense to put a 3rd team in WA.

It is all obvious stuff.

On and on and on ad nauseum.
Is someone paying you for this garbage.

 

[VicBased]

I'm not worried or bothered, just explaining you can't demand what is detriment to foundation clubs and their fans.

If posters don't like it they can either go to another thread or keep complaining in futility. Couldn't care less

Actually we can and are demanding equality for our clubs

.and yes, to the detriment of your club.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Mate I read them as well, I am in the same thread. Sometimes I just shake my head especially about travel as geography cannot be changed.
There is also still plenty who deny HGA on GF day doesn’t exist, shake my head at that as well.
BF provides the humour we all need to get through the week.
For those who take it personal and to seriously well I guess that’s their choice, I try not to lose any sleep over any of it.

I haven't seen that many deny it, there are a lot that say it's not as big an advantage as some make it out to be though.

Look at it the other way, when it's pointed out that non-Vics get leg ups during the H&A and if you finish top 2, you are almost guaranteed a GF spot, it's fingers in the ears and la,la,la time.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I haven't seen that many deny it, there are a lot that say it's not as big an advantage as some make it out to be though.

Look at it the other way, when it's pointed out that non-Vics get leg ups during the H&A and if you finish top 2, you are almost guaranteed a GF spot, it's fingers in the ears and la,la,la time.

GF spot doesn’t win you a flag, HGA may do.
Anyway round and round we could go again.
Enjoy your Sunday

 

[sr36]

Of course your not worried, life is pretty good being a Pies fan.

It definitely is. No doubt Pies have advantages and at the moment we've got a good enough team to take advantage of them.

I'd have no qualms with this thread if it was #Collingwoodbias or #CollingwoodCarltonEssendonbias. But it's not. 2 out the last 17 wouldn't have the same ring to it - nor would the number of spoons with thte latter hashtag. 15 out of 17 sounds better and best not to mention spoons at all or final's appearances or top 4 finishes.

But that's not what this thread is about. It includes the 4 Northern clubs who've been gifted very large recruitment advantages and the AFL sinking enormous amounts of money to build their supporter base. And it includes 2 WA clubs that have become off field monsters - not through 140 years of hard work and growth, but simply because the AFL has chosen to grant only 2 licenses in such a big football market. Supporters of these 6 clubs are complaining that the AFL has given them an overall disadvantage against all Vic teams - it's ridiculous.

And to make it even more ridiculous, regarding the most legitimite complaint - MCG Grand Final - the team with the biggest final's disadvantage regarding finals locations is Geelong who don't get home finals at any stage of the finals draw, regularly having to play their "home" finals at an opponent's home ground which is a very different shape to their own. Now this club with this disadvantage against them - which the Non-vic complainants would suggest is massive - have won 4 of the 17 #VICBIAS flags.

 

[JackOutback]

I'm not worried or bothered, just explaining you can't demand what is detriment to foundation clubs and their fans.

If posters don't like it they can either go to another thread or keep complaining in futility. Couldn't care less

Three of the four top contributors in this thread are Pies fans (one of them being you, sooking about others supposedly sooking). I’d suggest you are bothered.

And we absolutely can demand equality to the detriment of foundation clubs, there’s nothing stopping us. And when the AFL decides it values a national competition over parochial Victorians, there’ll be some changes. And the reactions will be amusing.

 

[doppleganger]

On and on and on ad nauseum.
Is someone paying you for this garbage.

Is it a bit tough for you when the WA nonsense points are shown to be garbage?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Three of the four top contributors in this thread are Pies fans (one of them being you, sooking about others supposedly sooking). I’d suggest you are bothered.

And we absolutely can demand equality to the detriment of foundation clubs, there’s nothing stopping us. And when the AFL decides it values a national competition over parochial Victorians, there’ll be some changes. And the reactions will be amusing.

Or the AFL will just see you as a pack of sooks and do nothing.

Oh, maybe they will extend the Grand final for another 30 years.

That was very amusing, gunna take a lot to beat that one.

BWHahahahahaha

 

[VicBased]

Is it a bit tough for you when the WA nonsense points are shown to be garbage?

No , it is your inconsequential ramblings of supposed inequities within the system when the team you support are the biggest benefactor of the AFL handouts
You deny what is most obvious to outside observer's .

 

[The_Wookie]

d

Is it a bit tough for you when the WA nonsense points are shown to be garbage?

They arent really nonsense though, and thats the problem. Some things you can fix and others you cant really do much about, and some solutions arent really solutions at all.

• The distance is never going to change.
• The number of home games per club isnt really going to move, its the bedrock of the fixture.
• No clubs are going to be moved or merged while the league has the funds to preserve their existence.
• The league will not set up a third club in WA while the WAFC hold two licenses.
• The Grand Final will not leave Melbourne.

That the non victorian clubs have been able to overcome certain disadvantages in relation to distance, grand final hosting, father-son drafting etc does not mean those disadvantages dont exist. it means theyve triumphed (or not) against a stacked deck, a deck that everyone knows is stacked, but almost everyone knows cant be solved easily.

Yes, it would be nice if it was a little more evenly distributed from the start, but it wasnt, and there was never a real prospect of that happening. We can try and rewrite history every couple of months, but its just a circle jerk of opinions and name calling that really gets us nowhere.

 

[doppleganger]

No , it is your inconsequential ramblings of supposed inequities within the system when the team you support are the biggest benefactor of the AFL handouts
You deny what is most obvious to outside observer's .

That is what you took from a post explaining the obvious economics of why the AFL sends Collingwood to QLD and NSW more than WA?

Absolute wowser

 

[doppleganger]

They arent really nonsense though, and thats the problem.

Majority of the whinging is nonsense.

Some things you can fix and others you cant really do much about, and some solutions arent really solutions at all.

• The distance is never going to change.
• The number of home games per club isnt really going to move, its the bedrock of the fixture.

• 
  The majority of whinging is because WA wowsers think that it isn't a home and away competition, but that it is a did you travel or not competition
  
  Nonsense.
  
  

  That the non victorian clubs have been able to overcome certain disadvantages in relation to distance, grand final hosting, father-son drafting etc does not mean those disadvantages dont exist.

  What results show is that those perceived disadvantages are massively overplayed, and are offset by the home advantage they maintain and the fact that ground rationalisation in Melbourne has reduced their away disadvantage.
  
  

  it means theyve triumphed (or not) against a stacked deck, a deck that everyone knows is stacked, but almost everyone knows cant be solved easily.

  The deck is stacked in favour of teams who have a home ground advantage.
  
  Like all countries, teams based in isolated cities travel more tham teams based in major population hubs.
  
  But forcing a selection of teams to sell home games and share 2 grounds (losing any real home ground) has created an obvious disadvantage for Melbourne based teams.
  
  The numbers are clear.

 

[The_Wookie]

Majority of the whinging is nonsense.

• 
  The majority of whinging is because WA wowsers think that it isn't a home and away competition, but that it is a did you travel or not competition
  
  Nonsense.

Travel remains a factor. You cant ignore that, even if they did sign up for it.

• 
  
  
  What results show is that those perceived disadvantages are massively overplayed, and are offset by the home advantage they maintain and the fact that ground rationalisation in Melbourne has reduced their away disadvantage.

It hasnt reduced the disadvantage, they have simply overcome that disadvantage. The disadvantage remains exactly the same. Its like being able to climbing a wall. You can climb the wall, but the wall is still an obstacle no matter how well you climb it,.

• 
  
  
  The deck is stacked in favour of teams who have a home ground advantage.
  
  Like all countries, teams based in isolated cities travel more tham teams based in major population hubs.

Other than Australia with the NRL and AFL, which other countries base half their competition in one city?

• 
  
  But forcing a selection of teams to sell home games and share 2 grounds (losing any real home ground) has created an obvious disadvantage for Melbourne based teams.

The league decided not to fund ground improvements and the Victorian Government told the clubs there was no money for them. This rationalisation occurred in the mid 80s and early 90s for the most part, although Carlton held out until the early 2000s.

Teams werent forced. Essendon willingly left Windy Hill first for the MCG and then for the deal of a lifetime at Docklands. Collingwood were more than happy to move to the G. Carlton went to Docklands to pay off debt and with the full acceptance of their board. Richmond left Punt Road in the 60s. Hawthorn got a great deal as a Waverly tenant and then an MCG/Tasmania deal, that could have easily gone the Saints way if they had any foresight. The Dees have never left the MCG.

The Roos and Dogs might have cause for complaint. No club is FORCED to sell home games.