Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[Papa G]

So you have killed off North and Melbourne?

It really isnt that outrageous.

Pick a home venue, you get ALL your home games FIXtured there.

That is how a H&A season should work.

But ever since AFL imposed ground rationalisation in Melbourne, the Melbourne teams dont have this.

MCG contract isnt really an impost for H&A season. The problems really is the AFL wanting BLOCKBUSTERS and big games also at Docklands.

It is the AFL pushing commercial interest ahead of an equitable H&A season.

And from a commercial perspective, there is no incentive for the AFL to introduce more AFL suitable stadiums in Melbourne.

From a Collingwood perspective I would be all for a completely random FIXture. Give us ALL our home games at the G, and then pick our away games out of a hat.

Yes. They are superfluous to the league. North have no supporters and the majority of Melbourne supporters only remember they are Melbourne supporters when they are going well or for Kings Birthday games. Neither are geographically important. I've said this many times. Most sensible people would agree. We actually are in general agreement here. The AFL/VIC Government/MCC agreement is the biggest impediment to a fairer comp. A random fixture would be great. And no I couldn't care less if there wasn't 2 Showdowns a year. Clubs paly all home games at their home ground. I'd probably ditch GWS and Gold Coast too if we are going to be serious. 15 team comp. All states represented. 8,2,2,1,1,1. Home and Away. 28 rounds might be too long but you could get close.

 

[Brasher]

That’s very convenient that you keep sprouting this as the truth when in reality, you aren’t including Geelong in those stats which is why it’s so skewed as if it’s a gotcha moment, non Vics have such an advantage!!

When in reality, it’s a perfect 50/50 split since 2000 as to finishing top 2 between vic and non vic clubs.

Funny that. I'm out of this discussion because noone is going to convince anyone otherwise anyway.

However, I just had to point out the case that is Geelong. Someone might want to check the number of games Geelong played at home, especially during their 2007-2011 run. Never played more than 8 at Kardinia in a season, in fact in 2010 they played 7 there and 2011 they played only 6. However, in 2011 when Geelong were "forced" to play games away from Kardinia they were rampant on the opposition.

Even now they max out at 9 games down at Geelong....so they probably play as many games at a true home ground as all these clubs forced into rationalization at their new home ground that we are supposed to bleed for. If the number is less and its due to selling games, well boo hoo.

For all discussion on it, normally the obvious answer is the most correct, better teams just win more regardless of venue.

 

[Carringbush2010]

North have no supporters

Actually they have around 50k members and probably at least 200k fans all up. Arguably the smallest vic club.

So there ya go North fans, whaddya think of Papa's proposal? Are you happy to have your club fold for the good of non vic fans?

 

[Coolangatta]

There's another way, perhaps just as unpopular a suggestion as culling teams because of the too many teams mantra.

We keep adding teams every 15-20 years, we don't contract, we expand.

If/when we get to 21 teams, we change the single-tier structure of the competition to a conference style system where each team still plays 23 games a year (11 at the home ground of their choice, 11 away, 1 gather round). You don't play every team once every year, but every two, but you do play teams within your geography/proximity once a year i.e. ANZAC day game still happens once a year, Showdown, etc.

So if a 3rd club in Sydney, 2nd club in Brisbane, Canberra club etc become viable, they come in when the next expansion cycle is ready. That means in 70 years time we might have 24+ teams, and a lot of people won't like that (we won't be here to debate it), but is it worse than killing off any existing clubs? You tell me.

FWIW I only suggest adding new clubs if the growth and business case is convincing. Don't write off the Suns and Giants yet. If they fail then I will reconsider what I'm suggesting.

 

[Carringbush2010]

To be honest, the 'small' vic cubs ain't really that small - fact of life.

So how to equalize the comp? Well you can't, no ifs buts or maybes.

It really is simple, non vics accept what is, or we dissolve certain vic clubs to equalise the comp, obviously the latter will not happen.

So if I were a non vic fan, vote with your feet and remotes and go follow your state leagues, return them to glory.

We can have our VFL back and the non vics can stop whinging. Win win.

 

[Rich01]

I keep thinking of Tex having 1a reserved on the flight back from Melb to Adelaide Ayer the granny just for the Cup.

Then when they lose, the excuses start.
Just not good enough pal.

 

[kranky al]

To be fair, the WAFC buying licence did save certain clubs like yours and mine from financial ruin as Kranky has stated here



So what's stopping everyone now? The WAFL is still going and is a tier 1 comp and willing to bet if every wa person snubbed the AFL and returned to support the wafl it'd be back to the glory days.

Why is it so important that non vic fans must destroy smaller vic clubs to equal up the comp when those clubs were here first? If this league is so detestable just vote with your feet and remotes, I know I would.

The wafl isnt a tier 1 comp. Its a feeder comp. Anyone decent or even half decent gets yoinked.

We spaff about getting afl rejects back.

 

[kranky al]

To be honest, the 'small' vic cubs ain't really that small - fact of life.

So how to equalize the comp? Well you can't, no ifs buts or maybes.

It really is simple, non vics accept what is, or we dissolve certain vic clubs to equalise the comp, obviously the latter will not happen.

So if I were a non vic fan, vote with your feet and remotes and go follow your state leagues, return them to glory.

We can have our VFL back and the non vics can stop whinging. Win win.

The small vic clubs get near twice the disbursal that we get.

Wouldnt last 2 years - not even close without it.

West coast played saints on the weekend in the worst season weve known, the weeks after we lost to sydney by a million or so - 35000 attended.

Saints play west coast with both of us top 2 sides at docklands and they will struggle to get that many unless enough west coast fans pony up to fly over, in which case crowd wise it will almost be a west coast home game.

You guys over rate their impact. If they werent in the league - in a generation those young fans who grew up without them would support other vic teams.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The wafl isnt a tier 1 comp. Its a feeder comp. Anyone decent or even half decent gets yoinked.

We spaff about getting afl rejects back.

Bullsh*t! The WAFL is of the highest quality, likely the next level to the AFL.

Those 'rejects' you talk about are AFL level.

Yes anyone 'decent' will get 'yoinked', so what is your proposal? I'll have an answer for it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

he small vic clubs get near twice the disbursal that we get.

So what?

Wouldnt last 2 years - not even close without it.

But they do coz 'VICBias' - that being HQ doesn't wanna give up those fan bases. North has around 50k members, do you get it now?

West coast played saints on the weekend in the worst season weve known, the weeks after we lost to sydney by a million or so - 35000 attended.

Kudos, so if ya'll so pissed off, so why bother following?

You guys over rate their impact. If they werent in the league - in a generation those young fans who grew up without them would support other vic teams.

Overrate? Regardless, those 'small' are necessary to produce the product.

In every league around the world there are minnow clubs, you wanna dissolve/ merge/ fold those clubs to suit you. Those club fans and members are gonna tell you to * off we were here first, and so they should.

 

[kranky al]

So what?

But they do coz 'VICBias' - that being HQ doesn't wanna give up those fan bases. North has around 50k members, do you get it now?

Kudos, so if ya'll so pissed off, so why bother following?

Overrate? Regardless, those 'small' are necessary to produce the product.

In every league around the world there are minnow clubs, you wanna dissolve/ merge/ fold those clubs to suit you. Those club fans and members are gonna tell you to * off we were here first, and so they should.

Every league around the world doesnt bring in alm the clubs from one city.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Because in their little ponzi scheme where every year all the teams were borrowing money to try buy a flag where only one could succeed - they - as a collateral damage effect hoovered up every player that was any good in the wafl / sanfl.

This had the effect of turning first rate comps into 2nd rate with all the stars being lured interstate, crowds stopped going and both leagues only subsisted on transfer fees.

Id been going to the footy with dad every week without fail, we loved east perth, old boy played colts for them and we were black and blue through and through. We never gave any thought to the Victorian league - why would we, it was so far away it might as well be another country.

Then the poaching that was always there but on a small scale, got to the point where it gutted the clubs, any player that was a star would have a breakout season and then the gone. We stopped going as it wasnt enjoyable anymore. You were paying for an a grade product and watching a reserves level game. State of origin was the only decent footy you could watch.

We would have been happy watching the wafl, just like you guys were happy watching the vfl and the sa boys watching the sanfl.

The eagles was a chance to watch top level footy again.

Yep understand all that Kranky. Was it really just money that lured these players to Vic or did they feel the VFL was a superior comp and they wanted to see if they could succeed in it?

I know my side was one of the insolvent ones at the time and we got close to folding, but I also feel if the non-Vic sides hadn’t joined somebody else would have come along to put money into the VFL. I don’t believe it would have been allowed to just die.

I am not totally unsympathetic to the non-Vic sides and agree they should get as many games at the G as possible. I don’t agree with the selling of home games to other locations either.

As far as the GF goes, I can’t imagine any Vic government ever giving up the rights without a huge fight.

 

[Papa G]

If you have a 15 side comp with only 4 sides having the Big Concrete Bowl as their home ground, and we play as close to a proper home and away season as possible, every club will get atleast 4 games at the Big Concrete Bowl. All home games are to be played at teams only home ground. The Big Concrete Bowl Tennants would have as close to home ground advantage as possible with only 3 other clubs sharing the Big Concrete Bowl. Obviously sharing the GF around would also be the fair thing to do, but the AFL doesn't really have fairness in its top 4000 priorities so its all just academic really.

 

[LoungeLizard]

If you have a 15 side comp with only 4 sides having the Big Concrete Bowl as their home ground, and we play as close to a proper home and away season as possible, every club will get atleast 4 games at the Big Concrete Bowl. All home games are to be played at teams only home ground. The Big Concrete Bowl Tennants would have as close to home ground advantage as possible with only 3 other clubs sharing the Big Concrete Bowl. Obviously sharing the GF around would also be the fair thing to do, but the AFL doesn't really have fairness in its top 4000 priorities so its all just academic really.

Get to it and start this 15 side comp.

But I don't think they will let you use the Big Concrete Bowl.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Every league around the world doesnt bring in alm the clubs from one city.

Ok, let's have a brand new national league with new vic teams and the current non vic teams and all the equity you want.

Leave the current vic clubs to their own league.

I like it, you like it, would be like it used to be, the VFL would once again be the highest profile league in the country, your new AFL would be a distant second, because................

Vic population outnumbers every other footy state combined, the game originated from there, the most participants are from there, and the most paying fans are from there, that's why the game is centred there.

Problem is what you want and what I want ain't happenin until every non vic fan snubs the current league that you all hate so much.

So do us all a favour non vic fans, abandon the AFL. Please!

 

[Outtatym]

Actually they have around 50k members and probably at least 200k fans all up. Arguably the smallest vic club.

So there ya go North fans, whaddya think of Papa's proposal? Are you happy to have your club fold for the good of non vic fans?

The guys a nut- most north supporters on here figured that out years ago. Genuinely think he has a room full of photos of Andrew D & Dan andrews. Cooker.

 

[Cmarsh]

Re the grand final location, at least the AFLW show integrity with this by placing the GF in the home state of the higest finisher.

AFLW Latest News - AFL.com.au/aflw

Latest breaking AFLW news from the official website of the Australian Football League.

www.womens.afl

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If you have a 15 side comp with only 4 sides having the Big Concrete Bowl as their home ground, and we play as close to a proper home and away season as possible, every club will get atleast 4 games at the Big Concrete Bowl. All home games are to be played at teams only home ground. The Big Concrete Bowl Tennants would have as close to home ground advantage as possible with only 3 other clubs sharing the Big Concrete Bowl. Obviously sharing the GF around would also be the fair thing to do, but the AFL doesn't really have fairness in its top 4000 priorities so its all just academic really.

Considered Port Adelaide just got 'bowled over' in a concrete stadium last Saturday, your theory falls flat (least from a Port Adelaide perspective)

 

[longdonkey]

Yep understand all that Kranky. Was it really just money that lured these players to Vic or did they feel the VFL was a superior comp and they wanted to see if they could succeed in it?

I know my side was one of the insolvent ones at the time and we got close to folding, but I also feel if the non-Vic sides hadn’t joined somebody else would have come along to put money into the VFL. I don’t believe it would have been allowed to just die.

I am not totally unsympathetic to the non-Vic sides and agree they should get as many games at the G as possible. I don’t agree with the selling of home games to other locations either.

As far as the GF goes, I can’t imagine any Vic government ever giving up the rights without a huge fight.

I will give you a 100% money back guarantee because I knew and played with a lot of these guys. IT WAS 100% THE MONEY. SANFL players used to laugh their t!ts off and buy a car with their Form 4 money. A lot of them knowing they weren't interested in going over. The small stream became a flood when all players became full-time professional by that stage most VFL clubs were broke and needed license money from Brisbane and West Coast and then the rest came in too because it was a big business by then with high player wages.

 

[BloodRet]

Now I almost think what I'm about to post deserves to be a thread on it's own and addressed separately, but I'll leave it in here.
Did a bit of research. 116-66 frees for/frees against at the MCG for Collingwood against interstate sides this season. No matter which way you look at it, that is farcical, corrupt and frankly a stain on the credibility of the competition. What do you guys reckon the reason for it is? I think it's a lot to do with umpires being too scared to pay free kicks against Collingwood because of the hostile reception they receive from Collingwood fans more than anything, and potentially feel unsafe making the 'right' decisions. Something needs to be done about it though because it's beyond a joke.

 

[longdonkey]

Now I almost think what I'm about to post deserves to be a thread on it's own and addressed separately, but I'll leave it in here.
Did a bit of research. 116-66 frees for/frees against at the MCG for Collingwood against interstate sides this season. No matter which way you look at it, that is farcical, corrupt and frankly a stain on the credibility of the competition. What do you guys reckon the reason for it is? I think it's a lot to do with umpires being too scared to pay free kicks against Collingwood because of the hostile reception they receive from Collingwood fans more than anything, and potentially feel unsafe making the 'right' decisions. Something needs to be done about it though because it's beyond a joke.

A better study but difficult to do is the free kick differential at the MCG for games between a Melbourne club and interstate club when the Melbourne club is trailing in a game vs winning that game.

 

[BloodRet]

A better study but difficult to do is the free kick differential at the MCG for games between a Melbourne club and interstate club when the Melbourne club is trailing in a game vs winning that game.

I'm singling out Collingwood here because I've noticed they get the rub of the green on the MCG more than any other club, against interstate sides especially. I went to look at the stats just before and it honestly did not surprise me. But yeah that would be an interesting one to look at.

 

[longdonkey]

I'm singling out Collingwood here because I've noticed they get the rub of the green on the MCG more than any other club, against interstate sides especially. I went to look at the stats just before and it honestly did not surprise me. But yeah that would be an interesting one to look at.

Well they are damning stats no matter what way you look at it. I've always thought it was bent from the time the AFL refused to let goals from free kicks to be publicly shared. Really from the time they have their summit in 2000's no Vic clubs in the 8 boo hoo "we cannot let this happen again" and there is no doubt they haven't let it happen again

 

[BloodRet]

Well they are damning stats no matter what way you look at it. I've always thought it was bent from the time the AFL refused to let goals from free kicks to be publicly shared. Really from the time they have their summit in 2000's no Vic clubs in the 8 boo hoo "we cannot let this happen again" and there is no doubt they haven't let it happen again

Before anyone says Sydney and Port get the same umpiring at the SCG and AO...
159 147 Swans frees for/frees against at home this season vs everyone except GWS.
144 158 Port frees for/frees against at home this season vs everyone except the Crows.

 

[Syd]

Well they are damning stats no matter what way you look at it. I've always thought it was bent from the time the AFL refused to let goals from free kicks to be publicly shared. Really from the time they have their summit in 2000's no Vic clubs in the 8 boo hoo "we cannot let this happen again" and there is no doubt they haven't let it happen again

I've always noticed that this disparity stat is now forbidden from public view.
Interesting that all the media outlets also willingly do not report the number(s) as well.