Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[Muddiemoose]

A big Victorian club style fixture, the teams with the biggest disadvantage in the AFL IMO are North, Saints and the Dogs.

In terms of overall advantages my order would be:

Geelong
Big MCG Vic clubs
Swans, GCS, GWS, BRIS
West Coast
Adelaide, Port and Freo
The small Marvel Vic clubs

Tend to agree but maybe swans have a slight advantage over the others in the group and bump west coast up a tier and Geelong on par with the big vic clubs but splitting hairs as well

 

[blue harvest]

2015, just three weeks before the Grand Final, the eventual premiers got pumped by the Grand Final losers at Subiaco Oval.

The same side obviously took the biscuits in the return fixture on Grand Final day at the MCG.

Is this an indicator of home ground advantage?

Hawks also beat the Eagles at Subi shortly before finals. Maybe it's just whoever plays best on the day.

 

[sr36]

A big Victorian club style fixture, the teams with the biggest disadvantage in the AFL IMO are North, Saints and the Dogs.

In terms of overall advantages my order would be:

Geelong
Big MCG Vic clubs
Swans, GCS, GWS, BRIS
West Coast
Adelaide, Port and Freo
The small Marvel Vic clubs

I'd have the academy clubs as having the biggest advantage. Big Vic club advantages only really matter if you've got the players - as shown by Carlton and Essendon over the last 20 years. The advantage of the academies is only just beginning to kick in - none of those clubs will be out of the finals very often over the next decade - longer if they don't get the matching balance right.

Pies are up there not because of a home grand final or 17 games in Melbourne, it's because we fluked it with draft concessions (and are well coached) - it's not a fluke with the academy kids.

 

[dont bowl there]

Tend to agree but maybe swans have a slight advantage over the others in the group and bump west coast up a tier and Geelong on par with the big vic clubs but splitting hairs as well

Yeah, Swans probably have a greater advantage than GWS and Bris. Gold Coast academy is outrageous at the moment so would have them on par just due to that.

Geelong slightly ahead of the big Vic clubs as their home ground advantage is greater than any other club but not by much as they don't get to play finals there (Fremantle excluded).

 

[VicBased]

We've got an advantage in the Grand Final - that's what he was referring to.

Plus don't listen to coaches. Hardwick's advocating towards the AFL. It says nothing about what he thinks. McRae wouldn't do that about a disadvantage - he'd bullshit the other way as he's talking to his players the whole time and wouldn't carry on about how tough travel is for his team. He'd be more likely to make up advantages than talk about disadvantages.

To quote your Coach,
"We play more games at the MCG is that fair, clearly not."
And again, "How much WC and Freo travel , there is no way it's fair".
At least your Coach is happy to own up.

 

[doppleganger]

It's not all equal, though. And those that say it cancels out are - uncoincidentally - fans of Victorian clubs.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, no Victorian team would ever prefer a fixture where they travel 10 times even if 10 of their home games aren't 'true' home games.

Please. Give me the SA fixture in a heartbeat.

13 games at preferred home ground, 11 with a true home ground advantage. A few away games at neutral venues and so only 8 actual away games at an opponents home ground.

No surprise SA teams have a combined 13 top4 finishes after H&A in 21 century.

For comparison - Ess, Carl, StK, NM, WB and Melb - have combined for 13 top4 finishes after H&A in the 21st century.

 

[3207]

Let's be realists then. Show us your evidence.

Again, you seem to think "if you don't agree with me, you're an (insert low intelligence insult)" is a very clever and unbeatable argument. In reality, it's nothing more than proof that you're a very immature, not very bright, but very entitled person having a hissy fit.

So I'll dumb it down for you. Do you have any evidence? Anything at all?

You want to disprove my fact - you do the work.

I’m not here to hold your hand you dribbler.

 

[Coolangatta]

Please. Give me the SA fixture in a heartbeat.

13 games at preferred home ground, 11 with a true home ground advantage. A few away games at neutral venues and so only 8 actual away games at an opponents home ground.

No surprise SA teams have a combined 13 top4 finishes after H&A in 21 century.

For comparison - Ess, Carl, StK, NM, WB and Melb - have combined for 13 top4 finishes after H&A in the 21st century.

To solve your problem, all the Vic sides should only play each other once per year.

That way, you get more genuine home ground advantage in games.

Solves the pesky problem of these stinkin' neutral venue games.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Of course it’s not equal, just as some interstate sides have it better off compared to other interstate clubs or even clubs within the same state

Larger financially stable clubs generally get a better run in terms of timeslots and can re invest profits into facilities it’s just the nature of the beast, don’t need to sell home games ect,ect

But interstate clubs especially SA and WA based clubs have other advantages like in relation to if a player wants to return to their home state their is a lot less competition in terms of options for that player to choose from

This thread is a testament to pretty much every pro/con conceivable for every club but like I said before a lot of posters of interstate clubs refuse to even acknowledge that they have some benefits and everything is just weighted in Victoria’s advantage when it’s simply not the case

15 premierships in 17 years suggests otherwise.

If it was the other way around, I would admit it.

 

[Muddiemoose]

15 premierships in 17 years suggests otherwise.

If it was the other way around, I would admit it.

17 years seems very specific why are we using that as the measuring point?

 

[doppleganger]

To solve your problem, all the Vic sides should only play each other once per year.

That way, you get more genuine home ground advantage in games.

Solves the pesky problem of these stinkin' neutral venue games.

All for teams only playing each other once, it will work once Tassie come in. You play 9 home games, and 9 away games.

Problem is the commercial agreements with stadium and broadcasters.

The realistic outcome is the introduce a 20th team and split into a couple of leagues.

And by the way, the neutral venue Melbourne games aint the problem, as both Melbourne based clubs are in the same boat.

The bias is when you get a non-vic club, they get home advantage game and then a neutral game.

 

[Grin]

You want to disprove my fact - you do the work.

I’m not here to hold your hand you dribbler.

I have, many times. I was asking for your evidence.
You prove the post you quoted quite prophetic.

 

[doppleganger]

Remember kids, Blockbuster Fatigue is a real condition.

WC agree, hence their fixture request is for no final round Derby...too taxing on Eagles players before finals.

 

[doppleganger]

A big Victorian club style fixture, the teams with the biggest disadvantage in the AFL IMO are North, Saints and the Dogs.

In terms of overall advantages my order would be:

Geelong
Big MCG Vic clubs
Swans, GCS, GWS, BRIS
West Coast
Adelaide, Port and Freo
The small Marvel Vic clubs

To rank, it would be interesting to know what factors you actually consider

From a pure FIXTure perspective, SA with 13 AO games are clear current winners.

But if you are talking access to talented youth, Northern clubs win.

If you are talking broadcast exposure, Sydney and the big Melbourne clubs win out

If you are talking about travel disadvantage their are obvious tiers - WA teams, Suns (travel to NT for home games), GWS (travel to Canberra for home games), Brisbane then you have teams like North/Hawthorn/Melbourne who travel as much as SA teams.

 

[Papa G]

17 years seems very specific why are we using that as the measuring point?

Royal Commission/Operation Heartland. How many times does this have to be repeated? Conscious effort by the dark forces of mainly the Victorian Labor Government/CMFEU, MCC, Victorian Club Presidents and thoroughly supported by the Victorian media and Victorian "Footy Industry".

 

[Grin]

Royal Commission/Operation Heartland. How many times does this have to be repeated?

You sound like a Sovereign Citizen. Repeating your fantasy/delusion/conspiracy theory ad nauseam does not make it a real thing. Are you OK?

 

[Underarm]

Royal Commission/Operation Heartland. How many times does this have to be repeated? Conscious effort by the dark forces of mainly the Victorian Labor Government/CMFEU, MCC, Victorian Club Presidents and thoroughly supported by the Victorian media and Victorian "Footy Industry".

As many times as it takes for you guys to stop using an aribrtary starting point?

 

[garlic munchers]

I'd have the academy clubs as having the biggest advantage. Big Vic club advantages only really matter if you've got the players - as shown by Carlton and Essendon over the last 20 years. The advantage of the academies is only just beginning to kick in - none of those clubs will be out of the finals very often over the next decade - longer if they don't get the matching balance right.

Pies are up there not because of a home grand final or 17 games in Melbourne, it's because we fluked it with draft concessions (and are well coached) - it's not a fluke with the academy kids.

The Northern Academies are (as intended by the AFL), are far bigger advantage than the VICBias advantage Melbourne clubs have over the SA, WA clubs.

However, these are an AFL one off quick fix and it will likely seriously water down the advantages the moment GC in particular, becomes a powerhouse and the whining out of Melbourne has become unbearable (i.e. AFL investigation into why the Vic clubs aren't winning 9/10 GF's).

In contrast, overall VICBias won't be reversed for the foreseeable future (i.e. MCG Contract).

 

[Carringbush2010]

the moment GC in particular, becomes a powerhouse and the whining out of Melbourne has become unbearable

Have you got evidence of this?

 

[sr36]

The Northern Academies are (as intended by the AFL), are far bigger advantage than the VICBias advantage Melbourne clubs have over the remaining SA, WA clubs.

However, the AFL will likely reverse these advantages the moment GC in particular, becomes a powerhouse.

VICBias less so (i.e. MCG Contract).

Agree with you.

The issue is that the advantages of draft concessions take a while to hit and can last a bloody long time - Pies are still benefitting onfield from a draft concession we received in 2005 - obviously the length of that advantage is going to be an outlier, but you'd expect the advantages of draft concessions to peak about 8 years after the concessions stop and still be advantageous for the next 7 years. So if you wait until Gold Coast are a powerhouse to stop the concessions- you'd expect them to get better from that point peaking 8 years after they first become a powerhouse. We'll be looking at some pretty long reigns.

Pies can't complain, as draft concessions are the biggest reason why we're currently contenders. They were flukey ones though. The Northern ones are advantages by design.

My biggest query on this is when does the Non-Vic lobby group collapse. When do the SA and WA teams stop going for the you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours approach - as 4 clubs are trying to get their back scratched and the other 4 are getting a fully body massage with a happy ending.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

You sound like a Sovereign Citizen. Repeating your fantasy/delusion/conspiracy theory ad nauseam does not make it a real thing. Are you OK?

Im more concerned that in refusing to acknowledge it that history will repeat itself.
Lets be honest, the northern academies are pretty much what SA and WA teams were given during our startup concessions, first access to home grown talent that will eventually morph into SOO teams.
Sustained success will follow and soon enough it will be cool to win flags outside of Victoria, infact, it might even finally be recognised as the greater victory and top up talent will flow the other way.

It shouldnt be this way, it shouldnt matter where youre from as to your chances but unfortunately the Vic clubs have had it so good for so long that its time for league enforced change and with that your flags will dry up again.

I look forward to the day when I can look at the past 10 flags and see 1 or 2 in each state, not runs of 10 from 17 non Vic followed by 15 of 17 by Vic.

It needs to be more random than that.

 

[Engimal v3]

Please. Give me the SA fixture in a heartbeat.

13 games at preferred home ground, 11 with a true home ground advantage. A few away games at neutral venues and so only 8 actual away games at an opponents home ground.

Not bad, aye? North get a home ground advantage in 6 games this year, and 4 of those are in Hobart - which isn't really a home ground advantage.

 

[doppleganger]

Not bad, aye? North get a home ground advantage in 6 games this year, and 4 of those are in Hobart - which isn't really a home ground advantage.

Imagine the outcry from SA teams if they travelled for a home game.

Port used their away games to have them fixtured at locations they were commercially trying to develop (NT and China), and had other clubs give up home ground advantage to do it.

No idea why the WA fans align themselves with SA clubs, as the SA sides get a gift of a fixture in comparison to WA teams, and it is much better than the majority of Vic teams fixture.

 

[bzparkes]

And you're in the minority, most on here are vehemently of the view that geography is fixable and unfair.

I don't think anyone's explicitly said that, you made it up in your head.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Imagine the outcry from SA teams if they travelled for a home game.

Port used their away games to have them fixtured at locations they were commercially trying to develop (NT and China), and had other clubs give up home ground advantage to do it.

No idea why the WA fans align themselves with SA clubs, as the SA sides get a gift of a fixture in comparison to WA teams, and it is much better than the majority of Vic teams fixture.

Probably because we're both traditional footy states watching the same Vic domination.
We know they do it tougher than us, we appreciate their efforts.
We also appreciate the northern clubs who fight for recognition in NRL heartland and also have to contend with travel.

Meanwhile you mob reside at home for 3/4 of the season plus finals and GF and wonder why we align ourselves.

Did we force those clubs to give up home games?