Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[JackOutback]

Yeah we smashed them in early in 2019 and were thus clearly a better team in the 2017 final series...

That's just childish. We're talking a span of consecutive games across two seasons with essentially the same teams. Adelaide smashed Richmond twice at home, Richmond smashed Adelaide twice at home across 2017 and 18. And you're in here trying to claim there's no home ground advantage, Richmond were just the superior team. it doesn't add up.

 

[Checksider]

You mean the game 5 months earlier when Richmond were about 4 games into their new game plan and hadn't yet nailed their offensive running patterns?

You're right. It's not possible they could have improved from that point. Actually you were better than them in 2015 as well. Nothing could have changed from then. I smell a cooked comp.

It's not a magic style. The fact that you're suggesting that it doesn't exist means I'm going to stop discussing footy with you. It's a bit like playing tennis with a quadriplegic - without his wheel chair.

Ok so they improved, sure. What happened two matches later at Adelaide Oval?

 

[Checksider]

That's just childish. We're talking a span of consecutive games across two seasons with essentially the same teams. Adelaide smashed Richmond twice at home, Richmond smashed Adelaide twice at home across 2017 and 18. And you're in here trying to claim there's no home ground advantage, Richmond were just the superior team. it doesn't add up.

They’ll have you believe that the MCG is magically a neutral ground for one day a year in late September/early October.

Delusional.

 

[Farang83150]

My dear friend.

Day 1. Flying to Melbourne with a sore back, I was ****ed if I could get any sleep that night. Cramping up, staggering down the aisles. My fellow travellers who did not know me would have thought I was nuts. Recovery was not possible while flying. My bad, I shouldn't have hurt my back or flown in the evening.
Day 2. I arrived in Melbourne in a campaigner of a mood and all out of whack with my sleeping patterns. Back was stiff as a board and I sort of wish I had the familiarity of my own bed. But happy to be with my family whom I am visiting.
Day 3. Watched Collingwood play the dees at the MCG.
Could have count 300 dees supporters all day.
I remember seeing them as they would stand out in the sea of black and white as we walked from Jolimont to gate 6.
Mentioning to my magpie supporting fam during the game that it must feel intimidating in the middle playing against the pies. Melbourne with their little crowd underwhelming.
Day 4.
Am off to get some tattoos, body piercings and grow a massive beard.
Day 5. Will still be looking for iced coffee as Melbourne's people have transcended the bogan coffee world, forgetting their roots. Ned Kelly would shaking in his tin foil hat.


A solution to travel would be to move to Victoria.
Great point but then it wouldn't be Australian would it. Because every team would be based in Melbourne.

Anyway, my take from this experience.
FLying long haul while sore and busted up, sucks balls and does nothing for recovery.
Mcg is a home game every second week, and every week you play Melbourne, st Kilda, north or the bulldogs.
On top of that you will always play your grand final at your home ground.
And you don't have to take long haul flights very much, living it up at your mum's most Sunday afternoons.
Looking at you Schultzy.

Good on you
It's a travesty you haven't been able to take the most out of your incredible advantages.

Long haul!

 

[LoungeLizard]

A couple is 2, we locked you out a few(3) times.
I suggest if you have a few spare $$'s, spend it on education.

See, this is the attitude of most non-Vics, you only want to stick it up Victoria.

On the other hand Victorians just play the team they are up against, they don't think of it as beating a non-Vic.

Maybe if Port thought this way they might even be able to win a home final sometime soon, I doubt it though, most mentally weak side I have seen in my time.

Good for you for sticking it up the big bad Victorians, i'm so happy for you.

 

[doppleganger]

How? If Richmond and Adelaide both played 11 home games each at their home grounds, you'd just say Richmond is disadvantaged because only half those games are against non-MCG tenants..

What do you mean how?

Pretty simple, let Melbourne based teams play all their home games at their preferred home ground.

Adelaide played more games at the AO in 2017 H&A season than Richmond played at the MCG...yet Adelaide fans complain?

I'd say this is offset by Richmond playing more "away" games at the MCG and having to travel less.

In 2017, Richmond played 1 away game at the MCG compared to Adelaide with 3.

Richmond actually played all their away games at opponents home ground.

Adelaide played away games at neutral venues, where the "home" team also was travelling and playing away.

No matter which way you slice it, the MCG is a fortress for clubs like Richmond when they're strong every much as AO etc is a fortress for strong interstate teams.

No matter which way you slice it, the SA clubs get more games at the AO with an advantage than any Melbourne based teams do at the MCG.

It is why SA teams regularly finish high on H&A ladder and then bomb out in home finals.

 

[sr36]

That's just childish. We're talking a span of consecutive games across two seasons with essentially the same teams. Adelaide smashed Richmond twice at home, Richmond smashed Adelaide twice at home across 2017 and 18. And you're in here trying to claim there's no home ground advantage, Richmond were just the superior team. it doesn't add up.

They way they set up relied on pressure and stacked up under pressure. Crows didn't stack up under the heat tigers brought.

A round 2 game for the reigning premier isn't exactly the best time to judge them. We, with the same fundamentals, got smacked by St Kilda in round 2. Didn't bring the pressure that the style relies upon.

Someone will be good enough to get on top of the style when it's well played and it'll become a weak style, but that someone wasn't 2017 Crows with their slow ball movement inviting the pressure and unable to cope with it. It was an overwhelming and would have been so anywhere.

The fact that you and he are pointing to 2018 home and away, when Tigers finished two games clear on top to suggest that Crows were actually the better team is a bit odd.

 

[Forward Press]

2015, just three weeks before the Grand Final, the eventual premiers got pumped by the Grand Final losers at Subiaco Oval.

The same side obviously took the biscuits in the return fixture on Grand Final day at the MCG.

Is this an indicator of home ground advantage?

 

[sr36]

See, this is the attitude of most non-Vics, you only want to stick it up Victoria.

On the other hand Victorians just play the team they are up against, they don't think of it as beating a non-Vic.

Maybe if Port thought this way they might even be able to win a home final sometime soon, I doubt it though, most mentally weak side I have seen in my time.

Good for you for sticking it up the big bad Victorians, i'm so happy for you.

The funny thing is that their solutions aren't to get better themselves. It's to try to weaken Vic teams.

Let's cull 5 smaller Vic teams so Vic teams travel more. Great idea. Doesn't make the interstate teams any better or reduce the amount they travel. In the long run it probably doubles Collingwoods size and makes us better - for the measly price of an extra 1 or 2 return flights.

If Pies were as callous as these folk, we'd be advocating for it - in a heartbeat

 

[LoungeLizard]

The funny thing is that their solutions aren't to get better themselves. It's to try to weaken Vic teams.

Let's cull 5 smaller Vic teams so Vic teams travel more. Great idea. Doesn't make the interstate teams any better or reduce the amount they travel. In the long run it probably doubles Collingwoods size and makes us better - for the measly price of an extra 1 or 2 return flights.

If Pies were as callous as these folk, we'd be advocating for it - in a heartbeat

Yep, exactly.

Let's all go 2 teams per state, even just 1 per state and watch them sook then.

 

[Forward Press]

Not surprising Collingwood fans are vocal in this thread.

How often would Collingwood travel to Tasmania? Geelong? WA twice? Or even just across the CBD to Docklands? They were deserved premiers last year - don't misquote me on that - but the advantages that Collingwood possess in terms of fixturing are undeniable. The mental gymnastics to say 'no true home ground advantage therefore it's equivalent to hopping in business class seats to their 5 star hotel' should attract perfect 10s from even the Russian and Chinese judges.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Not surprising Collingwood fans are vocal in this thread.

How often would Collingwood travel to Tasmania? Geelong? WA twice? Or even just across the CBD to Docklands? They were deserved premiers last year - don't misquote me on that - but the advantages that Collingwood possess in terms of fixturing are undeniable. The mental gymnastics to say 'no true home ground advantage therefore it's equivalent to hopping in business class seats to their 5 star hotel' should attract perfect 10s from even the Russian and Chinese judges.

That's a 2 way argument right there.
It's not surprising this thread is full of West Australians, known sooks.

 

[doppleganger]

Not surprising Collingwood fans are vocal in this thread.

How often would Collingwood travel to Tasmania? Geelong? WA twice? Or even just across the CBD to Docklands? They were deserved premiers last year - don't misquote me on that - but the advantages that Collingwood possess in terms of fixturing are undeniable. The mental gymnastics to say 'no true home ground advantage therefore it's equivalent to hopping in business class seats to their 5 star hotel' should attract perfect 10s from even the Russian and Chinese judges.

Collingwood fans are basically in unaminous agreement that we are the most advantaged Melbourne based team in the game.

The point is that the lazy "VicBias" drivel makes no sense, as not all Melbourne based teams are Collingwood.

North have it much worse than a team like Adelaide, Sydney or Brisbane.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Collingwood fans are basically in unaminous agreement that we are the most advantaged Melbourne based team in the game.

The point is that the lazy "VicBias" drivel makes no sense, as not all Melbourne based teams are Collingwood.

North have it much worse than a team like Adelaide, Sydney or Brisbane.

It’s something I have noticed a fair bit across a lot of the big club supporters
They absolutely will recognise some of the advantages they have, but it’s the supporters of other clubs who refuse to acknowledge some of the advantages they have as well

It’s swings and roundabouts, all clubs have advantages and disadvantages but the successful clubs are the ones who can identify it’s advantages and make the most of them

 

[Forward Press]

It’s something I have noticed a fair bit across a lot of the big club supporters
They absolutely will recognise some of the advantages they have, but it’s the supporters of other clubs who refuse to acknowledge some of the advantages they have as well

It’s swings and roundabouts, all clubs have advantages and disadvantages but the successful clubs are the ones who can identify it’s advantages and make the most of them

It's not all equal, though. And those that say it cancels out are - uncoincidentally - fans of Victorian clubs.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, no Victorian team would ever prefer a fixture where they travel 10 times even if 10 of their home games aren't 'true' home games.

 

[ibd77]

It’s something I have noticed a fair bit across a lot of the big club supporters
They absolutely will recognise some of the advantages they have, but it’s the supporters of other clubs who refuse to acknowledge some of the advantages they have as well

It’s swings and roundabouts, all clubs have advantages and disadvantages but the successful clubs are the ones who can identify it’s advantages and make the most of them

Remember kids, Blockbuster Fatigue is a real condition.

 

[Forward Press]

That's a 2 way argument right there.
It's not surprising this thread is full of West Australians, known sooks.

The competition is what it is. If you have 10 clubs in one state, it is inevitable those clubs will travel less. That is the nature of the expanded VFL morphing into the AFL.

I just dislike those who ignore the disadvantage or claim it's completely cancelled out by 'true' home games. Damien Hardwick a few weeks ago, now that he's up at the Gold Coast, has the freedom to express how it really is for the non-Victorian clubs. Call me a sook, I can deal with that.

 

[sr36]

Not surprising Collingwood fans are vocal in this thread.

How often would Collingwood travel to Tasmania? Geelong? WA twice? Or even just across the CBD to Docklands? They were deserved premiers last year - don't misquote me on that - but the advantages that Collingwood possess in terms of fixturing are undeniable. The mental gymnastics to say 'no true home ground advantage therefore it's equivalent to hopping in business class seats to their 5 star hotel' should attract perfect 10s from even the Russian and Chinese judges.

An inability to contemplate the possibility that 10 home ground advantage games 2 neutral games and 10 away games may be the equivalent of 5 home ground advantage games, 12 neutral games and 5 away games seems really challenged. Even more challenged to completely ignore the home and away evidence that suggests that it does balance out.

 

[Muddiemoose]

It's not all equal, though. And those that say it cancels out are - uncoincidentally - fans of Victorian clubs.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, no Victorian team would ever prefer a fixture where they travel 10 times even if 10 of their home games aren't 'true' home games.

Of course it’s not equal, just as some interstate sides have it better off compared to other interstate clubs or even clubs within the same state

Larger financially stable clubs generally get a better run in terms of timeslots and can re invest profits into facilities it’s just the nature of the beast, don’t need to sell home games ect,ect

But interstate clubs especially SA and WA based clubs have other advantages like in relation to if a player wants to return to their home state their is a lot less competition in terms of options for that player to choose from

This thread is a testament to pretty much every pro/con conceivable for every club but like I said before a lot of posters of interstate clubs refuse to even acknowledge that they have some benefits and everything is just weighted in Victoria’s advantage when it’s simply not the case

 

[Forward Press]

Of course it’s not equal, just as some interstate sides have it better off compared to other interstate clubs or even clubs within the same state

Larger financially stable clubs generally get a better run in terms of timeslots and can re invest profits into facilities it’s just the nature of the beast, don’t need to sell home games ect,ect

But interstate clubs especially SA and WA based clubs have other advantages like in relation to if a player wants to return to their home state their is a lot less competition in terms of options for that player to choose from

This thread is a testament to pretty much every pro/con conceivable for every club but like I said before a lot of posters of interstate clubs refuse to even acknowledge that they have some benefits and everything is just weighted in Victoria’s advantage when it’s simply not the case

No, I get it. Fortress WA and things like that. In strong years like that, that guarantees 8 wins and you only need a handful elsewhere to make finals. There was a North game against West Coast a while back where Laidley said it was a 12 point game - 4 for the team, 4 against a finals rival, and 4 that other Vic clubs did not take (they lost, by the way).

But I'd love for West Coast to trade away that advantage for a Victorian style fixture. Even if it means more competition for returning players, or loss of 'true' home grounds etc.

 

[sr36]

The competition is what it is. If you have 10 clubs in one state, it is inevitable those clubs will travel less. That is the nature of the expanded VFL morphing into the AFL.

I just dislike those who ignore the disadvantage or claim it's completely cancelled out by 'true' home games. Damien Hardwick a few weeks ago, now that he's up at the Gold Coast, has the freedom to express how it really is for the non-Victorian clubs. Call me a sook, I can deal with that.

I'd call it confirmation bias on your behalf. Vic coaches aren't allowed to talk about it, but Non-vic clubs advocating for concessions and advantages are telling the truth?

 

[LoungeLizard]

The competition is what it is. If you have 10 clubs in one state, it is inevitable those clubs will travel less. That is the nature of the expanded VFL morphing into the AFL.

I just dislike those who ignore the disadvantage or claim it's completely cancelled out by 'true' home games. Damien Hardwick a few weeks ago, now that he's up at the Gold Coast, has the freedom to express how it really is for the non-Victorian clubs. Call me a sook, I can deal with that.

Yeah you're right, you don't get any advantages at all.

Every time some coach or player says something to try benefit their club, y'all run in here and say "see we told you so"

Any time someone puts up data, it's fingers in the ears time and "la, la, la"

Goes both ways mate.

 

[VicBased]

I'd call it confirmation bias on your behalf. Vic coaches aren't allowed to talk about it, but Non-vic clubs advocating for concessions and advantages are telling the truth?

Didn't your coach recently confirm that your club definitely has an advantage playing that many games at the MCG?

 

[sr36]

Didn't your coach recently confirm that your club definitely has an advantage playing that many games at the MCG?

We've got an advantage in the Grand Final - that's what he was referring to.

Plus don't listen to coaches. Hardwick's advocating towards the AFL. It says nothing about what he thinks. McRae wouldn't do that about a disadvantage - he'd bullshit the other way as he's talking to his players the whole time and wouldn't carry on about how tough travel is for his team. He'd be more likely to make up advantages than talk about disadvantages.

 

[dont bowl there]

No, I get it. Fortress WA and things like that. In strong years like that, that guarantees 8 wins and you only need a handful elsewhere to make finals. There was a North game against West Coast a while back where Laidley said it was a 12 point game - 4 for the team, 4 against a finals rival, and 4 that other Vic clubs did not take (they lost, by the way).

But I'd love for West Coast to trade away that advantage for a Victorian style fixture. Even if it means more competition for returning players, or loss of 'true' home grounds etc.

A big Victorian club style fixture, the teams with the biggest disadvantage in the AFL IMO are North, Saints and the Dogs.

In terms of overall advantages my order would be:

Geelong
Big MCG Vic clubs
Swans, GCS, GWS, BRIS
West Coast
Adelaide, Port and Freo
The small Marvel Vic clubs