WA Draft Prospects

[Sico 17]

Fraser McInnes 197cm's Perth
Fraser missed the championships due to injury, he is a well built, solid young man who has great closing speed, and is a class user of the footy.
Fraser unlike alot of juniors has always been a defender this gives him a great ability to the read the ball and psoition himself in marking contests.
I personally feel he has been the most underated KP defender in this draft, as I actually think he is the best kp defender in this draft.

Fraser was great for Perth colts when he was available this year but that worries me about him is he is in that inbetween bracket, too tall for a KP and too short for a ruckman. Not many in that height bracket actually work out.

Thought Nelson would be available at our first pick but think his camp results will push him out of our reach.

I agree about Elliott Yeo, looks like the type of athletic, tall midfielders that Woodhouse prefers.

If Blee had nominated for the previous drafts he would be on an AFL list already. One of those players that is calm under pressure and always looks like he has time. If he can translate that to the faster pace of the AFL he will be a very good defender.

Sandilands is coming from a LONG way back. If his surname was Jones he would not be in consideration and would not have played colts football. Michael Embley v2.0. Was not his teams number one ruckman in U17's last year. Prefer other teams take the risk on him, if it works out then good for them.

 

[Prem87]

Since Alroy Gilligan has been on a list already can we trade for him through GWS?

 

[Anjahads]

Hi Guys,

Are we using 2 or 3 picks in the upcoming draft?
With us taking J Hill does that mean we only will have picks 23 and 28?

23:KPD Maybe lockyer.
28:Newman or Hill.

 

[WCE_phil]

Hi Guys,

Are we using 2 or 3 picks in the upcoming draft?
With us taking J Hill does that mean we only will have picks 23 and 28?

23:KPD Maybe lockyer.
28:Newman or Hill.

we still need to use 3 picks in the national draft. 1 however will likely be hams as a rookie upgrade and i for one am very happy about that.

 

[Icanwalk]

Some talent there.

Got 3 in the top 30 currently, so looking forward to it.

Could end up with two KPP and a decent midfielder

Well done in trade week, two top 30 draft picks for palmer and pick 38

Could anyone explain the Hawks reasoning behind that swap of picks, and why oh why don't we ever try, some inventive ******ed trade like this?

Also, as someone mentioned on another thread, would we be able to trade with GWS via pre-listed players to acquire Gilligan. Perhaps downgrading 63, which we'll probably only upgrade Hams with.

 

[gurncentral]

Well done in trade week, two top 30 draft picks for palmer and pick 38

Could anyone explain the Hawks reasoning behind that swap of picks, and why oh why don't we ever try, some inventive ******ed trade like this?

Also, as someone mentioned on another thread, would we be able to trade with GWS via pre-listed players to acquire Gilligan. Perhaps downgrading 63, which we'll probably only upgrade Hams with.

Talk is that Freo gave up their rights to a pre-listed player in exchange for the pick upgrade.

 

[Underdog]

No love for Alex Howard? Was terrific at CHB for Swans. He is also 190cm.

 

[maxrm]

I think we should take Fraser McInnes at #23, or if he is unavailable, Jordan Lockyer or Shane Kersten. Then at #28 I'm personally a big fan of Murray Newman.

And what are your thoughts on James Batterham?

 

[WCEforeverman]

It's threads like this that keep me coming back to Big Footy.

Thanks to all who provide the time to share some of their knowledge and do write ups ect.

 

[swannies]

No love for Alex Howard? Was terrific at CHB for Swans. He is also 190cm.

I like Alex, he's a real competitor and he was invited to the combine, so there must be some interest. I had him further down the pecking order than a few others because he won't play KP at AFL, I just don't see him as being big enough. I also thought he was pretty shaky in the last few weeks at Swans, but that's just my opinion.

 

[neng]

Want any of the following at 23/28:
Lockyer, McInness, Nelson, Newman or Kersten

Surely seeing as we weren't prepared to trade pick 45, we thought that we would use this and upgrade Hams at 63, no?

We might even be a sneaky chance of getting a slider ala Darling or Koby, Knightmare gave us Brad McKenzie at 23, who apparently has a huge left boot.

On the rookie list I would be looking at:
Gilligan (would be devastated if not)
Manson (Other teams won't take the risk I feel)
Haiden Schloithe (He impressed me when I saw him at the champs, but isn't being talked up at all, ended up playing a game or two of league WAFL so has had a taste of it)
Kieran Butcher (thought he was unlucky not get a shot last year)
Luke Blackwell (for a cheap rookie spot, why not?)
Horsley (doubt he will be there though)
Haydn Busher (he will get his shot this year)

One guy I'll admit I know nothing about is the Jack Clarke medallist Kerwin Stuart. In a Perth Colts side who struggled all year, blitzed the medal, must have a bit of talent?

Not keen on Brad Hill, not for what we will have to pay for him now.

 

[WCE_phil]

All i know is if we end up with another HBF prospect i'm going to be very pissed.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

I think we should take Fraser McInnes at #23, or if he is unavailable, Jordan Lockyer or Shane Kersten. Then at #28 I'm personally a big fan of Murray Newman.

And what are your thoughts on James Batterham?

He's that small mid from west perth, gets lots of the footy and uses it pretty well. He doesn't have the hardness of a Nelson, so i would think will struggle to get picked doesn't really stand out.

Rhys Waters Subiaco 180cm 's 75kg's

Had a great year played league footy for subi, showed skill and hardness at the footy. Ducks his head alot which pisses me of bit, doesn't al;ways need to do that. Should be picked up not what wce need though.

Matthew Jupp 191cm fullback east freo

Another on the small side for kp position, you can see why fraser mcinnes was such a big loss through the championships, WA carried alot of undersized kp stocks. Matthew works hard and provides good run is generally tight on his man. Positions himself well and reads the play.
Query again is size, not as talented as jordan lockyer.

 

[swannies]

All i know is if we end up with another HBF prospect i'm going to be very pissed.

Don't stress just yet, you wait, we're going to dominate an upcoming trade period, soon, because we'll have ALL the HBF'ers and everyone else will come to us for one.

It's a devious and cunning plan!

 

[neng]

Justin Joyce also?

 

[INSANE]

Re: WA Draft Prospect's

Great write-up RE, thanks for the time and effort.

With Lockyer, is it so cut and dry that he isn't big enough to play KPD at AFL level?
Glass and Scarlett are barely on the bigger side of 190cm and Dale Morris made a successful career as an undersized KPD at 190cm (albeit with the ability to play on medium types too). Has a good vertical leap so his ability to play KPD could possibly be determined by his strength rather than his height?
How would you compare Lockyer to Blayne Wilson, perchance?

Newman and Kersten certainly looks the goods. Brad Hill intrigues me because a combination of great pace, elite endurance and clean skills should put him in higher stead than he is. Didn't Stephen have similar queries about not getting high enough disposal tallies from memory?

Not at all. If you're good enough, you're big enough.

Glass, Scarlett, Pav, Lloyd....Two all-time great defenders and two all-time great forwards who are apparently small and undersized.

James Clement was about 190cm and consistently beat bigger forwards in one on ones.

 

[Prem87]

Insane, add Darling to the list!

You would expect Freo to take McIness with either 16 or 20. They're going to screw us over again ala Fyfe.

Would like to see footage of Gilligan. Sounds perfect for us.

 

[INSANE]

Insane, add Darling to the list!

You would expect Freo to take McIness with either 16 or 20. They're going to screw us over again ala Fyfe.

Would like to see footage of Gilligan. Sounds perfect for us.

Yep he's that size and I expect great things for sure....Was using established champs to show quality>>>1 or 2cm on paper. But yeah, he looks like a Pav type to me.

McIness, don't think he played in the carnival mid-year so I have no idea about him. I like Corey Gault, but sounds too early for 23/28 and will likely go before our next pick....Which may be in the RD.

I'm really, really keen on Newman at 28. I feel as though he should be more hyped in peoples Phantom Drafts on the D&T board....But I think he looks great for us.

 

[beatlesmith]

Fraser was great for Perth colts when he was available this year but that worries me about him is he is in that inbetween bracket, too tall for a KP and too short for a ruckman. Not many in that height bracket actually work out.

Eric Mackenzie is 196cm IIRC and Ben Reid is a similar height.
Provided he has the necessary speed, agility and ability at ground level, his height shouldn't be an issue. Granted you don't see it often, but I think it's important to look at each case individually than use sweeping generalisations.

 

[WCE_phil]

just on the height issue guys as time goes by afl players are getting taller, stronger, faster and in general bigger. So using the heights of retired players as references to what will be suitable for a key position player in the future doesn't really stack up.

There are always exceptions to the rule but they will always be exceptions and going forward even when a guy with darlings talent isnt likely to play mainly as a key position player then it rules out pretty much anyone in this draft. Now if someone is 190-191 cm and they have slightly longer arms than average giving them the equivalent reach of someone 2cm's taller than them then they can probably make the grade in that position but i really see that as the only way. Even then if they do play as key position then they still aren't likely to take the future guerilla forwards.

How do you see a guy of lockyers stature who also has very average agility lining up against a guy who is taller, heavier, stronger, more athletic and likely to have a 10cm reach advantage. All when looking forward it seems more likely that the next big tactical change will be tall marking players.

This is one of the many reasons why gws have tried so hard to stack all their picks right at the top end of the draft. When we're talking about prospects in the 20-30 or so bracket and including guys like lockyer, grigg etc who all have very major queries on whether or not they will be able to have any career at afl level you begin to see why its considered to be such a weak draft.

 

[INSANE]

just on the height issue guys as time goes by afl players are getting taller, stronger, faster and in general bigger. So using the heights of retired players as references to what will be suitable for a key position player in the future doesn't really stack up.

There are always exceptions to the rule but they will always be exceptions and going forward even when a guy with darlings talent isnt likely to play mainly as a key position player then it rules out pretty much anyone in this draft. Now if someone is 190-191 cm and they have slightly longer arms than average giving them the equivalent reach of someone 2cm's taller than them then they can probably make the grade in that position but i really see that as the only way. Even then if they do play as key position then they still aren't likely to take the future guerilla forwards.

How do you see a guy of lockyers stature who also has very average agility lining up against a guy who is taller, heavier, stronger, more athletic and likely to have a 10cm reach advantage. All when looking forward it seems more likely that the next big tactical change will be tall marking players.

This is one of the many reasons why gws have tried so hard to stack all their picks right at the top end of the draft. When we're talking about prospects in the 20-30 or so bracket and including guys like lockyer, grigg etc who all have very major queries on whether or not they will be able to have any career at afl level you begin to see why its considered to be such a weak draft.

They may be getting taller, bigger and stronger etc. But really, only Buddy is a super tall KPF that I would say is a great player, he's an exception though....The rest of the hugely tall ones are no better than the smaller KPPs...Kosi, Mitch Clark, Tippett, Gumby, Hawkins, Jesse White etc have all at times been spoken about as being able to dominate through their size/height and whatever.....Sounds good in theory, but rarely equates to being the unstoppable player certain people thought they'd become.

Having talent is what gets you somewhere.

For the bolded....You're thinking of the current 18 year old Lockyer and imaging him lining up on huge current forwards. I'm sure when he's developed (provided he's good enough) he'd handle them the say same way Glass, Scarlett, Pears, Rutten, Tarrant etc handle over sized hacks 20 kgs heavier than them....with superior judgment, reaction times, smarts and the back up defenders....who pretty much make the height of stupidly tall forwards pointless these days, as the defenders know where it's going and it's usually kicked high.

Like I said, if you're good enough size is irrelevant....And you wont change my mind at all, ever, on this subject.


Also, only one of the guys I used to compare is retired, the others still going strong. Two were All Aust this year.

 

[INSANE]

just on the height issue guys as time goes by afl players are getting taller, stronger, faster and in general bigger. So using the heights of retired players as references to what will be suitable for a key position player in the future doesn't really stack up.

There are always exceptions to the rule but they will always be exceptions and going forward even when a guy with darlings talent isnt likely to play mainly as a key position player then it rules out pretty much anyone in this draft. Now if someone is 190-191 cm and they have slightly longer arms than average giving them the equivalent reach of someone 2cm's taller than them then they can probably make the grade in that position but i really see that as the only way. Even then if they do play as key position then they still aren't likely to take the future guerilla forwards.

How do you see a guy of lockyers stature who also has very average agility lining up against a guy who is taller, heavier, stronger, more athletic and likely to have a 10cm reach advantage. All when looking forward it seems more likely that the next big tactical change will be tall marking players.

This is one of the many reasons why gws have tried so hard to stack all their picks right at the top end of the draft. When we're talking about prospects in the 20-30 or so bracket and including guys like lockyer, grigg etc who all have very major queries on whether or not they will be able to have any career at afl level you begin to see why its considered to be such a weak draft.

Seriously, you're going WAY too deep into this. Football ovals are huge, you can move around, take marks on the lead, run a bigger player until he blows.

It always sounds in theory, that a super tall person would beat a smaller opponent one on one for an entire match. Rarely happens, as footy isn't a stand and reach game, but a fluid and fast moving sport where talent and smarts win. It's the reason there are guys like midget Brent Harvey dominating and giants like Sandi dominating and everything in-between.

Will always be like this.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

just on the height issue guys as time goes by afl players are getting taller, stronger, faster and in general bigger. So using the heights of retired players as references to what will be suitable for a key position player in the future doesn't really stack up.

No doubt about it. It's why you can't be a full time ruck if you're under 200cm unless you can jump high.

You do need 194cm+ Defenders, we have three of them 23 years or younger. Brown, Schofield and McKenzie are all monsters.

There are always exceptions to the rule but they will always be exceptions and going forward even when a guy with darlings talent isnt likely to play mainly as a key position player then it rules out pretty much anyone in this draft. Now if someone is 190-191 cm and they have slightly longer arms than average giving them the equivalent reach of someone 2cm's taller than them then they can probably make the grade in that position but i really see that as the only way. Even then if they do play as key position then they still aren't likely to take the future guerilla forwards.

Do we need another KPD? Probably not super urgent. Do we need a KPD to takle the Dawes, Clokes and Franklins of the AFL. Nope. Everyone wants to take the big, quick guys with long arms but they can't position themselves or defend very well. Lockyer is a natural.

How do you see a guy of lockyers stature who also has very average agility lining up against a guy who is taller, heavier, stronger, more athletic and likely to have a 10cm reach advantage. All when looking forward it seems more likely that the next big tactical change will be tall marking players.

Who? Lockyer could matchup on Kennedy, Lynch, Darling, Roughead. You're talking about a select few 195cm+ forwards.

This is one of the many reasons why gws have tried so hard to stack all their picks right at the top end of the draft. When we're talking about prospects in the 20-30 or so bracket and including guys like lockyer, grigg etc who all have very major queries on whether or not they will be able to have any career at afl level you begin to see why its considered to be such a weak draft.

Grigg mabey but id take Lockyer over Seb Tape (top 15 2010) any day of the week. Did you notice last year that Watson and McCarthy where overlooked by the Suns?

 

[INSANE]

just on the height issue guys as time goes by afl players are getting taller, stronger, faster and in general bigger. So using the heights of retired players as references to what will be suitable for a key position player in the future doesn't really stack up.

There are always exceptions to the rule but they will always be exceptions and going forward even when a guy with darlings talent isnt likely to play mainly as a key position player then it rules out pretty much anyone in this draft. Now if someone is 190-191 cm and they have slightly longer arms than average giving them the equivalent reach of someone 2cm's taller than them then they can probably make the grade in that position but i really see that as the only way. Even then if they do play as key position then they still aren't likely to take the future guerilla forwards.

How do you see a guy of lockyers stature who also has very average agility lining up against a guy who is taller, heavier, stronger, more athletic and likely to have a 10cm reach advantage. All when looking forward it seems more likely that the next big tactical change will be tall marking players.

This is one of the many reasons why gws have tried so hard to stack all their picks right at the top end of the draft. When we're talking about prospects in the 20-30 or so bracket and including guys like lockyer, grigg etc who all have very major queries on whether or not they will be able to have any career at afl level you begin to see why its considered to be such a weak draft.

Don't want to harp on too much....But what does this mean? Especially the reference to this years draft?

 

[WCE_phil]

Don't want to harp on too much....But what does this mean? Especially the reference to this years draft?

Of the guys a similar size to darling in this years draft pool i dont think anyone rates them as being of a similar talent level. Of the west aussies kersten is good and while he might be close to or even a touch better than darling athletically he doesn't have darlings other strings to his bow. He doesnt have the presence, the defensive pressure, ability to read the play, midfield skills and his hands aren't as good either.

In regard to previous posts on lockyer he was more an example of having a major question mark as to whether he would make it rather than me not rating him as i actually do rate him highly. My previous post was more about drafting now and its reference in the future and how we can't compare previous generations of players builds, heights and athletic talents to modern day players.

In regards to the super tall key position players being unsuccessful i do largely agree but if you reference the heights of the guys like lockett, dunstall, ablett and modra, lockett was the tallest at 191cm. Discounts the current super talls but looking at players now and going into the next 4-5 years how tall are the real star key position players.

Franklin 196
Kennedy 194.5
J Riewoldt 195
Reid 195
Mackenzie 196
Walker 194 (has a reach advantage in regards to his height as well)
Cloke 196

See a pattern there guys?
Hurley is 193 and im not sure of his reach but he is the only guy of the current generation of key position players who i think will be an A grader who's under 194cm and i think we'll find 10 years from now the next generation of high quality key position players will again be about an inch taller than current players.

Personally i dont think we need another guerilla key back or even a guerilla key forward because tbh pretty much all afl teams only have 1 quality guerilla forward and backman in their 22 at the moment. I'm also not saying dont draft guys under a certain height but when a lot of current midfielders are between the 186-190cm's it doesnt bode well for a 190kp player at afl level.