War over Warnock

[chook2734]

negotiate a deal!!!!!!!!! Pick 6 or nothing......

Ok, so when exactly did anyone from the Fremantle Football Club say they even wanted pick 6? Do you have a quote, or like the 100 others before you, will you just ignore this post because you have nothing?

 

[Braun_2_B_Wild]

How many players have been traded for a single pick in the mid twenties have been given a deal as good as this?

Honestly why do Fremantle supporters keep going on about this? It has absolutely nothing to do with his value as a draft pick. The only reason Carlton are offering Warnock such big money is because they needed to... to get him away from playing for Melbourne where his brother is. On top of that Melbourne have 1st pick in the PSD so Carlton have no option.

They are already overpaying him what he is worth just to get him there.... what makes you think they are going to overpay for a draft pick as well? They'd be better off giving Warnock an extra $100k a year and telling him to go in the PSD and they keep pick 24.

I hope like hell they do and stick it up every Fremantle official and supporter for being greedy.

 

[chook2734]

Have you not read my other posts?!
I agree that we were in the wrong with Thornton. He should never have been forced to stay with us. Like I said, it was this case and others that are leading the competition closer to one case too many.

And with this in mind, thats why I cant fathom for one second how your club can be so pig-headed with this trade when reasonable compensation (not that it should even be provided if free agency was prevalent) has been offered and you've sat there for a week nit-picking and making outrageous demands.

Even a premiership, AA, who is probably in the top 30 players in the AFL doesn't draw pick 16 from the reigning premiers and yet you want has to make a top 20 pick available for Warnock??!!

Emotions and ego have taken over to everyones loss, including your clubs

Reasonable compensation? In your eyes yes, in Fremantle's no. Who do you think knows more about a player? The club who has nurtured him for the last 3 years, or the club who has just offered him big $$$ to jump ship?

Pig-headed. I assume you're referring to no change in our demand for a selection that is better than pick 24? So I guess both Freo and Carlton are pig-headed and both at fault given Carlton's insistence that pick 24 is it.

Outrageous demands? I'd suggest Carlton's insistence that we not only fold for their first offer, but do it early in the week so they can go and do some real trades is the only outrageous thing that's happened. Oh, you could add Robbie Warnock, a player of apparently dubious potential and only played 21 games, for making some pretty outrageous demands too.

What you miss in the O'Keefe non-trade is that he wasn't available for pick 16. If he was, the deal would have been done yesterday. Sydney said no. Hawthorn attempted to negotiate, but still could not come up with a suitable deal. They then decided that they were not willing to pay the price Sydney required for O'Keefe so walked away, and hence removed their first draft pick from the table.

You need to get over free agency. It doesn't exist in the AFL. It may well do one day, but right now, it doesn't.

 

[Braun_2_B_Wild]

Reasonable compensation? In your eyes yes, in Fremantle's no. Who do you think knows more about a player?

Yup Fremantle knows more about him... which is why they didn't think he was good enough to play AFL for most of this year until it became obvious he was pissed off and leaving.

Your mob don't rate Warnock... if they did they would have played him when it mattered at the start of the year. Instead they let him rot.... and now they are trying to tell us he is valuable and better than pick 24. Only fremantle supporters came down in the last shower.

 

[inyourcool]

You need to get over free agency. It doesn't exist in the AFL. It may well do one day, but right now, it doesn't.

The way your club has acted this week we are a few steps closer!

Tune into SEN chook, you can hear the grab of Pelchen clearly stating that their club valued pick 16 too much to put it in an offer for O'Keefe. They were hoping to package their 2nd round pick (no.35 BTW!) for Ryan.

Their club valued pick 16 higher than RoK.

Now using this as some sort of yardstick for Warnock, how does it make him worth a pick inside 20?

And I respect your posts, you have debated well on this, but how is it that you see a gaping chasm between pick 24 and a pick 5-7 lower? Does it justify all this whoo-ha? To compromise this trade for loose change is extraordinary. All I can draw from this saga is that freo and most of its supporters are upset that there hasn't been a counter-offer, when the original offer was more than reasonable. And in reality it is.

And Carlton has its fault in all this, its shoudl've started the bidding much lower. Fools

 

[kenhunter]

i hope dockers dont fall in, pick 24 + player Carlton or dont get him im sick of Carlton ****in gover teams and trying to BUY premierships

we've obvioulsy hurt your feelings at some time in the past - so sorry...

 

[chook2734]

The way your club has acted this week we are a few steps closer!

Well that's a positive we can all take out of it then isn't it? All those poor repressed players can get just what they want when the system comes tumbling down.

Tune into SEN chook, you can hear the grab of Pelchen clearly stating that their club valued pick 16 too much to put it in an offer for O'Keefe. They were hoping to package their 2nd round pick (no.35 BTW!) for Ryan.

Their club valued pick 16 higher than RoK.

Now using this as some sort of yardstick for Warnock, how does it make him worth a pick inside 20?

And I respect your posts, you have debated well on this, but how is it that you see a gaping chasm between pick 24 and a pick 5-7 lower? Does it justify all this whoo-ha? To compromise this trade for loose change is extraordinary. All I can draw from this saga is the freo and most of its supporters are upset that there hasn't been a counter-offer, when the original offer was more than reasonable. And in reality it is.

And Carlton has its fault in all this, its shoudl've started the bidding much lower. Fools

Other trades mean nothing. Look at the pick 90 for Steven King last year. Why not use that as comparison for Warnock and offer us pick 250? There is no equity in trades. It is about 2 parties coming to an agreement. That is it.

I think the difference between pick 24 and a better pick (be it 17 or 19) has already been well explained and the reality is, there are other bidders, but due to Carlton's actions in creating a false market place by offering Warnock an excessive contract and convincing him to refuse to go elsewhere, it's very hard for Fremantle to deal outside of Carlton.

I don't speak for all of Freo's supporters, but I would suggest that the majority have a bigger problem with Carlton's refusal to negotiate at all. As someone else said, this is not ebay. Their supposed 'attempts' at sweetening the offer have ranged from offering players earmarked for delisting and a swap of very late picks. It is this arrogance and disrespect that has Freo supporters happy to see Warnock off to Melbourne for nothing.

 

[kenhunter]

It doesn't matter whether Melbourne have offered Pick 19 or not (which they haven't because they aren't part of the negotiations), in much the same way as it didn't matter whether Richmond were offering Picks 2, 17 & 19 for Judd. Just as Judd wanted to join Carlton & therefore Richmond weren't part of the negotiation process, Warnock also wants to join Carlton, therefore Melbourne are irrelevant to this exercise.

Should Carlton walk away from this trade because of the stubbornness of the Fremantle administrators, Melbourne are very welcome to offer Pick 19, but they won't because they know they can select Warnock in the PSD for nothing, if Carlton have pulled the pin. In other words, Melbourne haven't offered anything, just made some noises in the hope that Freo won't do a deal with Carlton, allowing Warnock to slip through to the PSD.

not so sure about that..if melb dont take him with pick 19 can't we take him with our pick 24, or someone else who has pick 20-23?

 

[HBF]

Still finding it laughable that Fremantle continue down this road for Warnock. Most reasonable people here on BF believe #24 is fair compensation for him, so why Fremantle are taking this stance is just beyond my comprehension.

 

[HBF]

Well that's a positive we can all take out of it then isn't it? All those poor repressed players can get just what they want when the system comes tumbling down.



Other trades mean nothing. Look at the pick 90 for Steven King last year. Why not use that as comparison for Warnock and offer us pick 250? There is no equity in trades. It is about 2 parties coming to an agreement. That is it.

I think the difference between pick 24 and a better pick (be it 17 or 19) has already been well explained and the reality is, there are other bidders, but due to Carlton's actions in creating a false market place by offering Warnock an excessive contract and convincing him to refuse to go elsewhere, it's very hard for Fremantle to deal outside of Carlton.

I don't speak for all of Freo's supporters, but I would suggest that the majority have a bigger problem with Carlton's refusal to negotiate at all. As someone else said, this is not ebay. Their supposed 'attempts' at sweetening the offer have ranged from offering players earmarked for delisting and a swap of very late picks. It is this arrogance and disrespect that has Freo supporters happy to see Warnock off to Melbourne for nothing.

You know that for sure, do you?
We convinced him to come to Carlton, and not look at any other Melbourne clubs. I'm certain that I read a quote where he stated that playing with C.Judd was a major factor in choosing to come to Carlton.

 

[freocuz]

Still finding it laughable that Fremantle continue down this road for Warnock. Most reasonable people here on BF believe #24 is fair compensation for him, so why Fremantle are taking this stance is just beyond my comprehension.

So, the reasonable people are agreeing with Carlton, and all the unreasonable ones are on Freo's side? That's a bit of a generalisation, don't you think?

Why not go back through the pages of this thread and count how many neutral supporters are on each side and give us all some numbers. Just so that we know you aren't making stuff up. Wouldn't want a mod to do that, would we?

 

[yibbida]

Ok, so when exactly did anyone from the Fremantle Football Club say they even wanted pick 6? Do you have a quote, or like the 100 others before you, will you just ignore this post because you have nothing?

CARLTON HAVE PICK 6 & PICK 24.

if Pick 24 isn't enough, what else do they want? We offered our 4th rounder for your 5th rounder. YOU rejected that.

FREO get nothing.

 

[freocuz]

You know that for sure, do you?
We convinced him to come to Carlton, and not look at any other Melbourne clubs. I'm certain that I read a quote where he stated that playing with C.Judd was a major factor in choosing to come to Carlton.

Actually, I don't think that was a direct quote from Warnock. The one direct quote we do definately know is that he wants to go back to Melbourne for family reasons. I guess his family must live near Optus Oval somewhere.

 

[Selggad]

Yup Fremantle knows more about him... which is why they didn't think he was good enough to play AFL for most of this year until it became obvious he was pissed off and leaving.

Your mob don't rate Warnock... if they did they would have played him when it mattered at the start of the year. Instead they let him rot.... and now they are trying to tell us he is valuable and better than pick 24. Only fremantle supporters came down in the last shower.

Freo have developed him nicely and have done all the right things by this kid, including expecting him to show the right attitude before playing him. Why don't you bugger off with your hackneyed, ill informed opinions.

 

[TOA.]

Still finding it laughable that Fremantle continue down this road for Warnock. Most reasonable people here on BF believe #24 is fair compensation for him, so why Fremantle are taking this stance is just beyond my comprehension.

I agree to a point. Its not like pick 24 is that far off the mark. If it was a 3rd rounder then I would be kicking up a stink.

 

[kenhunter]

We are unwilling to give him to Carlton for pick 24. If we take him at pick 21, we gain his services for another 2 years.

yeah, and pay him 500k per year for a player who don't want to be with you - go for it, great deal

 

[inyourcool]

Other trades mean nothing. Look at the pick 90 for Steven King last year. Why not use that as comparison for Warnock and offer us pick 250? There is no equity in trades. It is about 2 parties coming to an agreement. That is it.

And this is why I keep banging on about out of contract players!
The AFL know that the PA's push is to liberalise player movement and the driving force is clubs who are losing players dictating terms when in reality, in the real world they would have zero say.

The AFL want the system to stay in place because at least clubs losing players get compensated and a further equalisation mechanism remains in place but to hijack the week for the sake of nitpicking and splitting hairs will see it fall over. And this why most get back to the fact that pick 24 should've seen the deal be done.

It is a fair outcome with all this background movement in mind. I cant fault the offer. Maybe the approach like I mentioned was stuffed (started too high)

I think the difference between pick 24 and a better pick (be it 17 or 19) has already been well explained and the reality is, there are other bidders, but due to Carlton's actions in creating a false market place by offering Warnock an excessive contract and convincing him to refuse to go elsewhere, it's very hard for Fremantle to deal outside of Carlton.

I don't speak for all of Freo's supporters, but I would suggest that the majority have a bigger problem with Carlton's refusal to negotiate at all. As someone else said, this is not ebay. Their supposed 'attempts' at sweetening the offer have ranged from offering players earmarked for delisting and a swap of very late picks. It is this arrogance and disrespect that has Freo supporters happy to see Warnock off to Melbourne for nothing.

The argument has only been about establishing an exchange based on player contract which is flawed and irrelevant. Ofcourse we are going to offer an attractive package, we are trying to lure him to our club. Its called free market forces doing the best for your organisation. Sometimes people dont even necessarily chase the money but just decide to work somewhere else for other reason of preference. Its one of our basic rights. Which Robbie is exercising to some extent.

 

[kenhunter]

yeah, and pay him 500k per year for a player who don't want to be with you - go for it, great deal

and waste your pick 19, it just keep getting better for you

 

[240volt]

If Fremantle get better than pick 24 they will pull off the best trade in there clubs history

 

[Ferris_rules]

lol Freo always make me laugh !

The most unsuccessful club in the history of the AFL tries to talk tough during trade week, laughable to say the least.

Well sorry Blues supporters but you can blame the AFC for this, when we traded a superstar in Chris "who" Groom for some average player called Mcleod back in 95 ! (I think) lol The dockers are still being shafted by that priceless deal back then.

Warnock will be a very good player but only after a club deFremantlizes him !

History suggests any half descent player that Fremantle lets go ends up delievering at another club !

I think Carlton should offer the dockers a 4th rounder as punishment for trying to talk tough.

 

[dumb]

it seems we have to ask ourselves where would he be picked if he were in the draft? he's that good that he would probably be taken above #6, but that's all we have. i guess we have to walk away knowing that we just don't have any pick at all that will please them. that is the true test of knowing what he's worth, after all, where he'd be taken if he were in the draft. we've only got #6, i guess we give up and let him go to the draft.

 

[Moo]

Interesting. So what about Warnock tells you that he is ready to compete against the best ruckmen in the league in 2009? Hasn't he mostly been getting smashed himself to date, despite improving? He is still a developing ruck, not an established one.

My eyes.

Have seen a lot of Sandi and Cox develop ...now no ones knows if he will be as good as either one of those but my opinion is he aint going to be bad.

He is ready to be number 1 he just is not going to get that opportunity at Freo whilst Sandi's bum points towards the ground.

ODN ...if you guys doubt he is ready - why grab another developing ruck? Go and get Seaby - dangle 24 in front of them? Take Jeff White or simply ride out another poor ruck period and compensate with mids I guess.

I haven't seen an awful lot of your lads - from what I have ...Kruezer looks very nice but he may be your answer as a 2nd ruck/goal kicking forward ala J Longmuir/Kosi ...I actually think he looks far better than JLo did at this point in his career which is great.

Hampson looks very raw and I think like Warnock was he is some way from it.

Warnock - don't care about the stats, weight ratio etc ...if he had stayed and Sandi went down I don't think he would have missed a beat.

He almost has Sandi's height, will be unquestionably a very good tap ruckman but his advantage is he is very agile and moves well ....he aint Cox in this dept but he is far better at it than big Aaron.

Like Sandilands he is very good at getting the ball clear from the centre bounces. IIRC both Sandi and Warnock are top 5 in average clearances at Freo. Pretty bloody handy.

I think Freo, Melb and Carlton know he is a good bet ...it is only the BF crowd that don't. Plus I don't think I normally am one of these that over rates his own players - Mundy was the most important of our signings but Warnock would ahve been a close 2nd.

I go as far to say that Warnock will easily better the leading ruck of Carlton by a comfortable margin next season* (* discounting the unlikely scenario where he lands back with us).

ODN my biggest fear for Carlton is that Cloke goes down and you are forced to throw them to the wolves. Pies fans may or may not agree but Fraser got belted early in the ruck ..I think it has certainly contributed to some of the chronic conditions he faces today.

I'm not bitter at all - I hope Warnock goes onto be all he can be and has a good solid career. I also hope Kruezer is afforded the same cahnce Warnock was which is to be nursed through the early years and not played as an out and out number 1 ruck.

You don't get RW - have to grab a mature ruck from somewhere as insurance.

Would Jeff White be that bad?

 

[nurries]

lol Freo always make me laugh !

The most unsuccessful club in the history of the AFL tries to talk tough during trade week, laughable to say the least.

Well sorry Blues supporters but you can blame the AFC for this, when we traded a superstar in Chris "who" Groom for some average player called Mcleod back in 95 ! (I think) lol The dockers are still being shafted by that priceless deal back then.

Warnock will be a very good player but only after a club deFremantlizes him !

History suggests any half descent player that Fremantle lets go ends up delievering at another club !

I think Carlton should offer the dockers a 4th rounder as punishment for trying to talk tough.

New club ********. Get in this millenium

 

[4blues]

New club ********. Get in this millenium

14 years is not old either, Fremantle are still a very young club in the scheme of things.

 

[inyourcool]

Anyone listening to Balmey on SEN

He thinks freo are absolutely mad for being so unreasonable and not taking 24 and insisting on 20 when 1st, there is not much difference in the picks and 2nd, pick 24 is available, pick 20 isn't!

He thinks it is absurd that they are carrying on like this! He's laughing about it!!

And he thinks 24 is more than reasonable. And that is a bloke who is at the coal face