Was Matthew Knights a scapegoat?

[strategy]

Have Essendon improved or just copied a game plan to be like everyone else?
Wasn't the criticism of Knights game plan not player development?
Game plan is just a carbon copy of last years Pies blue print, how's player development going under Hird/Bomber?

Ryder - stagnant
Stanton - backwards
Bellchambers - forwards, but now dropped?

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I believe Bellchambers and Ryder need to play off the bench and Hille be in the Fwd line like you guys have Dawes etc taking the big marks which he can do better than Ryder and Bellchambers.
Easy marks are dropped and the ball is fumbled as some players hear footsteps coming at them and " sh#t themselves " .There is no room for a player who plays like that .They also have to learn to play at the MCG and win there .

 

[Japes]

Have Essendon improved or just copied a game plan to be like everyone else?
Wasn't the criticism of Knights game plan not player development?
Game plan is just a carbon copy of last years Pies blue print, how's player development going under Hird/Bomber?

Ryder - stagnant
Stanton - backwards
Bellchambers - forwards, but now dropped?

What a truly weak post.

Singling out three blokes, but ignoring a much longer list of players who are showing considerable improvement or who have been recruited into the side and are playing well (Jetta, Hardingham, Heppell, Crameri, Hibberd, Lonergan, Howlett, Myers - for example) does absolutely nothing for your credibility.

 

[pazza]

I absolutely do think he was a scapegoat for what can only be described as a joke last year.

You NEVER remove a coach because membership numbers will drop if he stays - you NEVER sack a coach if the senior player group drive the knives in, which clearly happened.

We've hardly improved at all. If anything I say we've gone marginally backwards.

 

[Kings Army]

This time last year after 11 games we had scored 1005 pts for and 1065 pts against for a percentage of 94.3.

This year after 11 games we have scored 1124 pts for and 944 pts against for a percentage of 119.

How many times had you played the Suns at this time last year??

End of the day the real Essendon are running out. The slide is on and they were just lucky to get the Dogs and Saints early when they were flat as a tack. They will see how hard it is to come back from the west with less than a 6 day break. They don't have the mental strength to turn games or now their season around. To miss the 8 after their start is now a joke.

 

[caboose]

I absolutely do think he was a scapegoat for what can only be described as a joke last year.

You NEVER remove a coach because membership numbers will drop if he stays - you NEVER sack a coach if the senior player group drive the knives in, which clearly happened.

We've hardly improved at all. If anything I say we've gone marginally backwards.

At least there's one thing to say for you: you're unlike many (gutless) Essendon posters on BF who have conveniently tried to wipe their one-time vociferous support for Knights from their memory banks.

As for the rest of the post ... it's pure drivel.

He was a disaster as coach, who never should have been contracted (let alone twice) in the first place.

Hird, by contrast, is doing a terrific job.

 

[Big Red is back]

At least there's one thing to say for you: you're unlike many (gutless) Essendon posters on BF who have conveniently tried to wipe their one-time vociferous support for Knights from their memory banks.

As for the rest of the post ... it's pure drivel.

He was a disaster as coach, who never should have been contracted (let alone twice) in the first place.

Hird, by contrast, is doing a terrific job.

Go hirdy give us more of the same, same results as last year with massive increase in spend, he is the master lol

 

[Heisenberg_]

At least there's one thing to say for you: you're unlike many (gutless) Essendon posters on BF who have conveniently tried to wipe their one-time vociferous support for Knights from their memory banks.

As for the rest of the post ... it's pure drivel.

He was a disaster as coach, who never should have been contracted (let alone twice) in the first place.

Hird, by contrast, is doing a terrific job.

Sheedy left Essendons list in an absolute shambles when Knights arrived, he was given 3 years not even that really to turn it around completly, granted he probably should have got rid of some more players, but he got absolutly shafted and did nothing wrong except coach a club with a large majority of incredibly impatient vocal supporters.
He couldn't have done much more with what he had.

 

[caboose]

Sheedy left Essendons list in an absolute shambles when Knights arrived, he was given 3 years not even that really to turn it around completly, granted he probably should have got rid of some more players, but he got absolutly shafted and did nothing wrong except coach a club with a large majority of incredibly impatient vocal supporters.
He couldn't have done much more with what he had.

I wouldn't expect a Richmond supporter to be an expert on Essendon's list or performances over recent seasons, but even so, that's a pretty poor summation.

Knights made endless mistakes. Including doing sfa to improve a list that had much more youth and much more potential than misguided people who like to stereotype Sheedy's last few years would have you believe.

You only need to look at his apparent inability to manage Lovett - both on the field and off it - and his disastrous decision to replace him with Williams for an encapsulation of how far Knights was out of his depth. Losing Lovett (let alone for a bloke who was never going to do anything other than take up a space on the list) is a decision haunting Essendon now, and it will continue to do so for many years. Among other disasters with the list, he also gave Bradley away (for nothing) to a club that wanted him, and basically shredded our entire forward line.

His history as a coach before coming to Essendon wasn't good, his game 'plan' was a disaster, his media performances were horrible, his matchups were often bewildering, his promises were almost always overinflated, his choices of assistants were gobsmacking, he led us to our most embarrassing finals performance of all time (because he somehow thought a team in an AFL final didn't need a ruckman), and he apparently completely lost the players.

Need I go on ... ?

 

[pazza]

At least there's one thing to say for you: you're unlike many (gutless) Essendon posters on BF who have conveniently tried to wipe their one-time vociferous support for Knights from their memory banks.

As for the rest of the post ... it's pure drivel.

He was a disaster as coach, who never should have been contracted (let alone twice) in the first place.

Hird, by contrast, is doing a terrific job.

By who's measure.

By the club having 50K members? By sponsors? By coterie groups trying not to destabilise?

Cut the crap.

One - we can't travel. It's been a problem since Sheedy was coaching us. Neither he, nor Knights, nor Hird could fix the problem. It's an easy problem to fix - YOU DON'T GO TO THE VENUE A DAY BEFORE YOU PLAY. You go 3-4 days beforehand.

Two - if it wasn't for Knights, the likes of Watson, Jetta, Zaharakis, Lonergan, Pears, Melksham, Hurley, Slattery, Myers, Hooker, Colyer, Hardingham, Reimers, Hocking, Howlett, Quinn and Bellchambers would have never got game time to develop to where Hird can use them now.

Three - we've only improved half a game on results at the same time compared to last year. That's the simple fact of the matter. What's the point of sacking a coach if the performance is EXACTLY THE SAME?

 

[caboose]

Two - if it wasn't for Knights, the likes of Watson, Jetta, Zaharakis, Lonergan, Pears, Melksham, Hurley, Slattery, Myers, Hooker, Colyer, Hardingham, Reimers, Hocking, Howlett, Quinn and Bellchambers would have never got game time to develop to where Hird can use them now.

Are you actually trying to be serious?

At any AFL club at any given time, there's going to be a group of existing players ready for a new coach to "use". It wouldn't matter who the preceding coach was. To add to that, I think you'll find many people would argue it's precisely because we haven't had enough players develop from our second-tier group over the past 3 to 5 years that accounts for why we're one of the poorer teams in the league right now.

As for Quinn? LOL! Have you blocked that abomination of a final in Adelaide out of your mind or something?

Three - we've only improved half a game on results at the same time compared to last year. That's the simple fact of the matter. What's the point of sacking a coach if the performance is EXACTLY THE SAME?

Right. So you purely make some hypothetical mathematical comparison that takes no account of our draw, injuries, suspensions or a million other things - let alone how we have turned around the situation as a club from being an absolute rabble by not much more than halfway through last year - to compare them, do you?

Thanks for confirming you are posting drivel.

 

[Ron The Bear]

he led us to our most embarrassing finals performance of all time (because he somehow thought a team in an AFL final didn't need a ruckman)

Hang on, Knights was reappointed three weeks after that loss, in spite of the other accusations you've levelled at him. IIRC Essendon had an injury list at the time that would make this year's apologists weep.

Robson:

"The club believes that this young Essendon squad is clearly heading in the right direction.

We are confident that Matthew will continue his good work with them as we build towards our next period of sustained success. He has taken the team into the finals in just his second year as coach and has the squad playing exciting football so this signing is great news for the club.

We believe that the next few years will be very exciting for all Essendon supporters and this contract extension gives Matthew time to bring this young group through together."

Yet despite the retirements/loss of experience of Lloyd & Lucas, half a season and four wins v top eight opponents later, the same board has lost faith in Knights and is pulling the rug out from under him?

 

[jonesy86]

I had the pleasure of seeing Matthew Knights at the MCG today.

To be in the presence of a man who brought down the Essendon FC, I was honoured.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Sheedy left Essendons list in an absolute shambles when Knights arrived, he was given 3 years not even that really to turn it around completly, granted he probably should have got rid of some more players, but he got absolutly shafted and did nothing wrong except coach a club with a large majority of incredibly impatient vocal supporters.
He couldn't have done much more with what he had.

Spot on.

 

[doppleganger]

Wonder how Collingwood would go without Swan, Luke Ball, Harry O Brien, Chris Dawes, Thomas, Dayne Beams, Nick Maxwell and Brent McCaffer.

Would they be doing so well?

Swan, Thomas, Beams, McCaffer not to mention Jolly, B.Johnson and N.Brown didn'y play against the Dees today.

Did you catch the result...an 88 point demolition of the team that made the dons look second rate.

Essendon's list aint up to scratch, Knights was def a scapegoat...he played the kids, correctly tried to phase out legends who were finished and got the list into the finals.

Hird will do no better, yet is already hailed as some superstar.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Swan, Thomas, Beams, McCaffer not to mention Jolly, B.Johnson and N.Brown didn'y play against the Dees today.

Did you catch the result...an 88 point demolition of the team that made the dons look second rate.

Essendon's list aint up to scratch, Knights was def a scapegoat...he played the kids, correctly tried to phase out legends who were finished and got the list into the finals.

Hird will do no better, yet is already hailed as some superstar.

Injuries, injuries, injuries, it is all you hear from Essendon, and Melbourne supporters for that matter.

Get over it, it happens to ALL teams at some stage- geez, Collingwood had just about their entire "A" grade midfield out, and I do not hear them crying the same tune!!

It is called depth. We lack it big time, just like most of the other middle of the ladder sides, but I am hoping we can correct that in the next year or two. You guys need to accept that you do too, and hope your recruiters address it.

 

[Wernumberone]

Spot on.

Actually it couldn't be further from the truth.

He implemented a gameplan that was the exact opposite of the way the game was headed which led to absolute smashings.

He was asked if he needed more footy dept help, he refused, he was told he had to develop a more defensive style, he refused.

Below is just a sample of some of the smashings, there were many more losses.

2008.

Lost Geelong : 51-150
Lost Collingwood : 81-154
Lost Port (Etihad) : 94-158
Lost Sydney : 52-143
Lost Richmond : 72-110
Lost Hawthorn : 79-130
Lost Adelaide (Etihad) : 73-129 The first time Essendon had EVER lost to Adelaide in Melbourne.
Lost Bulldogs : 105-151
Lost StKilda : 39-147

2009.

Lost Port : 66-107
Lost Brisbane : 68-111
Lost Geelong : 70-134
Lost Fremantle : 87-141
Lost Adelaide : 70-166

2010.

Lost Fremantle (Etihad) : 69-113
Lost Collingwood : 55-120
Lost Geelong : 83-154
Lost Adelaide : 40-124
Lost Carlton : 73-149
Lost Collingwood : 64-162

When he was our coach to all on BF he was a dud. Now he is gone he is a scapegoat

BF was right the first time.

 

[reimersworstguy]

you guys need more kyle reimers.

 

[caboose]

Hang on, Knights was reappointed three weeks after that loss, in spite of the other accusations you've levelled at him.

Err, sorry, but I have no idea what on earth you are talking about? I've read your post several times, but I'm honestly finding it almost impossible to follow it.

Knights was a terrible coach, period. And, despite getting lambasted, sworn at and villified on the Essendon board for it (including by HyperAggressiveDonk), I said exactly that when the board reappointed him - and pointed out in no uncertain terms how bad that decision was.

Go back and check the BF archives if you don't believe me, and if you think (if I'm interpreting your post correctly?) that I'm now being some sort of hypocrite?

 

[wmvaux]

Matthew Knights took Essendon to their only finals appearance in the last 6 years. I thought, with the cattle he had, the inexperience in the side, and the amount of injuries you guys copped, he was ok.

This is exactly right, Matthew Knights may have not been the best coach, but he did extremely well to get that Essendon side into the finals. Sheedy put Essendon back 5 years with his selfish drafting of rejects from other teams to keep his job by not letting Essendon bottom out. So the fact is there is still another year of rebuilding before they can actually make inroads to looking like a team improving and being a top 8 threat, to top 4, to Premiership contender.

They have picked up some talent in the last few drafts and no doubt will add to that in the next 2 drafts. They lack enough A grade players, they have some good B graders, but they just don't look like stepping up another level.

I predicted they would fall away around the bye, they had a big pre season and I don't think the players are able to keep that standard up from early in the season, there are too many kids who don't have the hard pre seasons built in. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually went backwards next year.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Go back and check the BF archives if you don't believe me, and if you think (if I'm interpreting your post correctly?) that I'm now being some sort of hypocrite?

Not at all. Just pointing out that the club was happy with progress under Knights at the time of his reappointment, which came shortly after the finals loss that obviously aggrieved you. After a start to 2010 that wasn't too terrible, the club shifted gears and began motions to move Knights aside...implication being that Hird was available so loyalty to Knights' vision went out the window.

I'm not familiar with your posting history re Knights, but virtually all Essendon supporters have retrospectively claimed that he was a terrible coach throughout his tenure and that the end justified the means with regard to installing Hird.

From an outsider's perspective the worst thing Knights did was to deal for Mark Williams. Seemed an odd decision at the time and worse again in hindsight.

 

[gaelictiogar]

By who's measure.

By the club having 50K members? By sponsors? By coterie groups trying not to destabilise?

Cut the crap.

One - we can't travel. It's been a problem since Sheedy was coaching us. Neither he, nor Knights, nor Hird could fix the problem. It's an easy problem to fix - YOU DON'T GO TO THE VENUE A DAY BEFORE YOU PLAY. You go 3-4 days beforehand.

Two - if it wasn't for Knights, the likes of Watson, Jetta, Zaharakis, Lonergan, Pears, Melksham, Hurley, Slattery, Myers, Hooker, Colyer, Hardingham, Reimers, Hocking, Howlett, Quinn and Bellchambers would have never got game time to develop to where Hird can use them now.

Three - we've only improved half a game on results at the same time compared to last year. That's the simple fact of the matter. What's the point of sacking a coach if the performance is EXACTLY THE SAME?

There is if you can see real genuine hope. Look at Richmond. We have 14 points with Dimma. It is conceivable that we would be thereabouts with El Tan Wallet but what if we were? Still going nowhere. With Dimma we KNOW we are going somewhere.

Same cannot be said of Hird at Essendon. I honestly think that if the club goes on a sustained poor run it will get very difficult personally for him. Working on blasting out of the traps this year betrayed lack of self confidenceadn the need to please. he is in trouble you know.

 

[lloyd136]

In trouble? So Hird's coaching career is a write off after 11 games.

Remember how well Dimma started his coaching career?

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

In trouble? So Hird's coaching career is a write off after 11 games.

Remember how well Dimma started his coaching career?

Isn't a write off yet of course, but could conceivably become a bit of a train wreck if you lose to North Melbourne this week. 4 losses on the trot, to 3 sides who won't make the 8, and a decimated Fremantle outfit, wouldn't be a good look for a guy hailed as the messiah by some Eseendon people.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Isn't a write off yet of course, but could conceivably become a bit of a train wreck if you lose to North Melbourne this week. 4 losses on the trot, to 3 sides who won't make the 8, and a decimated Fremantle outfit, wouldn't be a good look for a guy hailed as the messiah by some Eseendon people.

No ofcourse not, it wouldn't look good when the guy is in his first year of coaching. That's the trouble with the majority of the footy public these days, they expect too much too soon. Same goes for the kids. One week they're superstars the next week they're on the scrapheap.

Take a step back, give the bloke some time. After all he said the same thing. At least he is a realist. Unlike our previous coach.

 

[Slattery_20]

Isn't a write off yet of course, but could conceivably become a bit of a train wreck if you lose to North Melbourne this week. 4 losses on the trot, to 3 sides who won't make the 8, and a decimated Fremantle outfit, wouldn't be a good look for a guy hailed as the messiah by some Eseendon people.

Herp derp.
It proves he wasn't a messiah... thus proving what we already knew, that messiahs don't exist.
It doesn't prove that Knights was on the right path, or that he was teaching the kids the right way, or that his game plan wasn't being picked apart every 2nd week.

The horror last month shows up what we already knew, shallow midfield revolved around Watson. Never expected to win @ Subi; the Dees loss stings and will continue to sting.

Big picture... 5.5 wins from 11 starts is OK for where the list is at. 10 wins will be an OK finish despite, early on, looking down the barrel of 12+. Final would be a bonus.

Measure will be how well we can turn things around; no coach is judged off the first 6 months.
Don't think there's been any illusions about 'should play finals' from within the club as much as a few supporters probably did. Line from the top has always been improvement & building and having a look at what there was to work with.

Next off-season will be fairly big changes to the list IMHO.