WCE peak Judd was better than peak GAJ and peak Dustin Martin

[PhatBoy]

Micheal Voss anyone ?

Agreed. Has the same claims as the others. Easily the hardest of them as well.

 

[Falcon3518]

Cameron Guthrie was named in one of those AA midfields

Martin was truly at the top of his game for one season and was, by comparison, nowhere near as consistent in the seasons that followed.

He won the MVP, Brownlow, best and fairest and coaches award in one season. Stacking them on top of one another doesn’t magically multiply them. And as everyone has acknowledged he was excellent across all three winning finals series. Hanging an entire player’s career on that when the people you are comparing them to also played outstanding finals in addition to being at their best for much, much, much longer is a logic that only you use. No one else.

Wtf has cam Guthrie got to do with how good Dusty was in his AA year? Weird comment.

I gave the other awards bro, look at them. He also got two top 6 finishes in the Brownlow in those 4 years excluding 2017. Which is what Trac got last year and everybody thinks he’s unreal. The 1 year flogs like you are the worst.

 

[Freomaniac]

Again people are nostalgic apart from the 89 finals series his finals record was abysmal…







View attachment 1434446

So Gary Ablett SNR finals record is bad? So Ablett played 4 finals in 1992 for 16 goals or 4 goals a game.

4 goals in a grand final is a solid effort.

Fair enough to bag out Ablett senior for his games in 1994 and 1995 grand finals.


Jack Riewoldt. You seen his goals record in finals?

Look at his 2017 finals series. 3 goals in the qualifying final win vs the cats, no goals vs GWS in that preliminary final and 3 goals on the grand final vs the crows.

2018 finals series. 0 goals in the qualifying final but kicked 5 goals in a prelim final.

2019 and 2020 finals series goal count wasn't great despite tigers winning the flag both years

 

[Falcon3518]

So Gary Ablett SNR finals record is bad? So Ablett played 4 finals in 1992 for 16 goals or 4 goals a game.

4 goals in a grand final is a solid effort.

Fair enough to bag out Ablett senior for his games in 1994 and 1995 grand finals.


Jack Riewoldt. You seen his goals record in finals?

Look at his 2017 finals series. 3 goals in the qualifying final win vs the cats, no goals vs GWS in that preliminary final and 3 goals on the grand final vs the crows.

2018 finals series. 0 goals in the qualifying final but kicked 5 goals in a prelim final.

2019 and 2020 finals series goal count wasn't great despite tigers winning the flag both years

Thats fair to say for Jack. He’s not being talking about on this thread though his he or contending for GOAT status. GAS is obviously better than him and many other players.

Also 4 goals a game back then was average. Would be worth 2-3 goals today. Fwds were kicking bags of 10 regularly.

 

[Falcon3518]

Agreed. Has the same claims as the others. Easily the hardest of them as well.

Fair, finals record is great which is important.

 

[Falcon3518]

At some point you will actually start charging - how many is it now - 6?7? Cats players rent. Between the two Abletts, Hawkins, Stewart, Dangerfield, the match committee who plan assaults on Richmond players, youve damn near got the entire population of the surf coast living in there.

Imagine if we’d actually won anything

Dude you get triggered by my posts about the abbletts, I never start talking you, you always reply to me whilst swearing and calling me names.

 

[Grockadoc]

No, we call you a moron when you try and manipulate a whole bunch of non factors to back your opinion, rather than forming your opinion based on fact.

Do you see cats fans go into bat for their players and call people morons when the likes of Matthews - who played for a team we hate more than Richmond - or Carey, or Lockett, or Voss etc get brought into these debates?

Um yes. Have you not read the main board whenever Matthews is mentioned as a better player than Gaz sr.? Cats fans lose their minds and attack the poster who posted it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Wtf has cam Guthrie got to do with how good Dusty was in his AA year? Weird comment.

I gave the other awards bro, look at them. He also got two top 6 finishes in the Brownlow in those 4 years excluding 2017. Which is what Trac got last year and everybody thinks he’s unreal. The 1 year flogs like you are the worst.

So 1 Brownlow and 2 top 6 finishes in the brownlow.

To give you some perspective, Martin’s peak - I have included 2016 through to the first two games of last season because he polled votes in them - his peak, relative to other elite players, has been quite good and long. In that peak he’s managed to poll Brownlow votes in 52 games out of 105 that were eligible.

That’s a good - no, great strike rate, yeah? I mean even allowing for the fact that he’s played all but 20 of those games for a top 4 side, it’s a great effort to poll votes in half your games, over a 5 season period.


To top that for consistency, longevity, that would take a good effort, right? Especially if you spent half of a given period playing for a team of easybeats.


As such, I would think polling votes in 92 out of 172 games is a reasonable indication that someone’s peak was not only very high, but very long, and very tested considering it was achieved half in a side of stars and half in a side of rookies.

Luckily someone managed it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Um yes. Have you not read the main board whenever Matthews is mentioned as a better player than Gaz sr.? Cats fans lose their minds and attack the poster who posted it.

If that happens I would say it’s a very vast minority of idiots who feel that way. He’s got every right to be in the same conversation.

 

[Gethelred]

Dustys peak was 2017-2020 which is why I said subsequent flags. Nobody in a 4 year timespan achieved what he did. Is this not fair enough? 4 years is a long enough peak. Judd’s peak was around 4 years as well so it’s easy to compare.

Team achievements =/= individual ability. You telling me that Robbie Flower and Robert Harvey were worse players than Matt Spanger?

This is completely subjective. You don't have to agree with me, but - by your own metrics - GAJ was a better player than Dusty was.

 

[PhatBoy]

Dude you get triggered by my posts about the abbletts, I never start talking you, you always reply to me whilst swearing and calling me names.

Because I get a kick out of pointing out all your factual inaccuracy, your contradictions and your efforts create any narrative possible to make it look like you know what you’re talking about

 

[Falcon3518]

Um yes. Have you not read the main board whenever Matthews is mentioned as a better player than Gaz sr.? Cats fans lose their minds and attack the poster who posted it.

Thank you yes, they are savage to everybody. Lethals finals record is the reason why he got voted player of the century over GAS, GAS isn’t even legend status ffs. But yeah he’s the GOAT, spare me. Sorry cats fans finals matter not just H&A.

 

[Grockadoc]

Team achievements =/= individual ability. You telling me that Robbie Flower and Robert Harvey were worse players than Matt Spanger?

This is completely subjective. You don't have to agree with me, but - by your own metrics - GAJ was a better player than Dusty was.

I have had this argument so many times with Geelong supporting relatives over the years. One even tried to say that Cam Mooney was a better player than Richo because he won a flag.

My response to that was if that was the case, Marlion Pickett in his first game is a better player than Gary Ablett Sr. and Dangerfield. Shut him right up. Some people are nuffs.

 

[Falcon3518]

Because I get a kick out of pointing out all your factual inaccuracy, your contradictions and your efforts create any narrative possible to make it look like you know what you’re talking about

Right ok, so I’m living in YOUR head rent free then. Ironic.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Gethelred]

Great shout.

Throw a ball in front of the four of them at their peak and Voss would win it.

Depends how far in front.

Dusty is known for taking short steps if there's someone bigger than he can fend off, and both Judd and Abblett were faster.

 

[Grockadoc]

Thank you yes, they are savage to everybody. Lethals finals record is the reason why he got voted player of the century over GAS, GAS isn’t even legend status ffs. But yeah he’s the GOAT, spare me. Sorry cats fans finals matter not just H&A.

Nah, there's other reasons why GAS isn't a legend.

 

[Gethelred]

I have had this argument so many times with Geelong supporting relatives over the years. One even tried to say that Cam Mooney was a better player than Richo because he won a flag.

That's nice.

My response to that was if that was the case, Marlion Pickett in his first game is a better player than Gary Ablett Sr. and Dangerfield. Shut him right up. Some people are nuffs.

Yes, and you're using the same argument you disagreed with then right now. You're just as wrong now as your relatives were.

 

[Grockadoc]

That's nice.

Yes, and you're using the same argument you disagreed with then right now. You're just as wrong now as your relatives were.

Oh, please? Enlighten me as to how I am wrong or how I am using that argument now?

 

[Falcon3518]

Team achievements =/= individual ability. You telling me that Robbie Flower and Robert Harvey were worse players than Matt Spanger?

This is completely subjective. You don't have to agree with me, but - by your own metrics - GAJ was a better player than Dusty was.

Not saying flags are everything bro obviously. But when you play in 4 and don’t win any and play worse than castanga is 3 of them. It’s a problem. People ignore it cause they’ve drunk the cool aid.

At GAS strike rate he would need another 4 GF to have a performance like 89 again and hope his team is good enough to win it. Are people saying 1 flag from 8 GF if he is lucky is GOAT status? What a joke

 

[Gethelred]

Oh, please? Enlighten me as to how I am wrong or how I am using that argument now?

Edit: confused you with the other Richmond poster in here. Play on.

 

[Gethelred]

Not saying flags are everything bro obviously. But when you play in 4 and don’t win any and play worse than castanga is 3 of them. It’s a problem. People ignore it cause they’ve drunk the cool aid.

At GAS strike rate he would need another 4 GF to have a performance like 89 again and hope his team is good enough to win it. Are people saying 1 flag from 8 GF if he is lucky is GOAT status? What a joke

I'm not talking senior. I'm talking junior.

 

[Falcon3518]

Edit: confused you with the other Richmond poster in here. Play on.

Difference is Dusty carried us to 3 flags pretty much by himself. Cats won in 2011 without him.

When Dusty plays well we win 100% of finals. This is not the case with GAJ, far from it in fact. Refer to Dew in 08.

 

[Wojcinski]

Difference is Dusty carried us to 3 flags pretty much by himself. Cats won in 2011 without him.

When Dusty plays well we win 100% of finals. This is not the case with GAJ, far from it in fact. Refer to Dew in 08.

So when Dusty plays poorly Richmond loses finals and this somehow proves that his peak is better than GAJ's? Dusty shitting the bed vs Collingwood and Richmond losing is an example of being better than GAJ because when Collingwood beat Geelong in 2010 GAJ had 40 touches?

 

[Falcon3518]

I'm not talking senior. I'm talking junior.

Refer to my previous post about carrying teams to flags.

 

[PhatBoy]

Not saying flags are everything bro obviously. But when you play in 4 and don’t win any and play worse than castanga is 3 of them. It’s a problem. People ignore it cause they’ve drunk the cool aid.

At GAS strike rate he would need another 4 GF to have a performance like 89 again and hope his team is good enough to win it. Are people saying 1 flag from 8 GF if he is lucky is GOAT status? What a joke

We conceded 284 points in those last two grand finals - Ablett having been best afield in 89 and perfectly adequate in 1992. And THATS the story you take out of it? How bad our 33 year old and 34 year old full forward was in the goal square? And THATS how you decide on the validity of their career?

That’s your criteria?

It would help you immensely if you actually watched football that took place before you were born