WCE peak Judd was better than peak GAJ and peak Dustin Martin

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Difference is Dusty carried us to 3 flags pretty much by himself. Cats won in 2011 without him.

When Dusty plays well we win 100% of finals. This is not the case with GAJ, far from it in fact. Refer to Dew in 08.

At least Stewy Dew was a decent footballer.

Mason Cox ring a bell?

 

[Grockadoc]

At least Stewy Dew was a decent footballer.

Mason Cox ring a bell?

If it was a once off, I agree. But West Coast and Melbourne can sympathise. Mason Cox is capable to tearing apart solid teams. At least it isn't just us anymore.

 

[Falcon3518]

At least Stewy Dew was a decent footballer.

Mason Cox ring a bell?

Dusty was injured, GAJ was fully fit and played unreal. His best still wasn’t good enough. Dustys best wins EVERY final even if we are getting slaughtered like 2020 GF.


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[PhatBoy]

Dusty was injured, GAJ was fully fit and played unreal. His best still wasn’t good enough. Dustys best wins EVERY final even if we are getting slaughtered like 2020 GF.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

So if you just removed the other 17 teammates, or the mistakes the opposition made, he’d have still won Richmond those games, yeah?

 

[Gethelred]

Difference is Dusty carried us to 3 flags pretty much by himself. Cats won in 2011 without him.

... no he didn't. You are being genuinely absurd.

Richmond's gameplan from 2017-2019 (I'll talk about 2020 in a tick) was to set up around a stoppage and downfield and to harass any opposition team into ****ing up the clearance; either they cause an immediate turnover with the ball spilling clear, outside the stoppage to a swarm of Richmond smalls, or they intercept a hacked kick downfield and go the other side via quick HBF's, Houli, Edwards, Lambert, Ellis, MacIntosh etc. If they won the ball from the stoppage, they went quick directly towards goal at all times, but always towards preplanned parts of the ground to ensure that they could always have smalls around the balldrop in numbers and always towards a tall downfield - Jack, until they got a hold of Lynch - and either took the mark or swarmed an attempt at rebound.

This exhausted opposition mids and smalls, because Richmond played a game designed to minimize stoppages within matches and rested their quality players early in terms and games in order to unleash them late. This meant that Cotchin, Edwards, Dusty all looked dynamic and powerful in ways that didn't match how they played in previous years; it even helped players like Lambert and Caddy, because with the increased running opposition turned it over less than they did, and they became matchwinners late in games.

Dusty made it look even better, but let's not beat around the bush here. You had an excellent side with a clear tactical advantage that lasted until you began to tinker with it - in 2020 - when you tried to start winning the clearances and all of a sudden you're now not outrunning your opponents because - shocker - you can't position to win the ball whilst at the same time positioning to tackle, and the players had to work harder to do both. You were still good enough to win the flag, but how much of that was down to a good matchup on GF day?

When Dusty plays well we win 100% of finals. This is not the case with GAJ, far from it in fact. Refer to Dew in 08.

And???

We're comparing peaks, not one day, and - again - team achievements are not individual peak.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

If it was a once off, I agree. But West Coast and Melbourne can sympathise. Mason Cox is capable to tearing apart solid teams. At least it isn't just us anymore.

Great on his day to be fair.

 

[Falcon3518]

So if you just removed the other 17 teammates, or the mistakes the opposition made, he’d have still won Richmond those games, yeah?

We would’ve won against the 08 Hawks guaranteed. You guys fell asleep for some reason even with the apparent GOAT in your team at his PEAK.

 

[PhatBoy]

We would’ve won against the 08 Hawks guaranteed. You guys fell asleep for some reason even with the apparent GOAT in your team at his PEAK.

Lol. No you wouldn’t have. The guarantee doesn’t make it any less speculative either.

At least we fell asleep in the last game of the season instead of the second last.

F*** my eardrum with an elephant’s **** nobody can be this dumb. It’s just not possible.

 

[My Cotchin Rules]

I love that I try to contribute to a topic and you're in here trying your best to derail the discussion with poor, overdone troll behaviour because I think GAJ is better than Dusty. It's just weird mate, if you wanna troll me go right ahead and jump on Bay13 and let

GAJ > Judd > Daylight > Dusty

Saying there is 'daylight' between GAJ & Dusty at their peak performance is the clear definition of an troll post.
I suggest you take off those rose tinted glasses.

 

[Falcon3518]

... no he didn't. You are being genuinely absurd.

Richmond's gameplan from 2017-2019 (I'll talk about 2020 in a tick) was to set up around a stoppage and downfield and to harass any opposition team into ******* up the clearance; either they cause an immediate turnover with the ball spilling clear, outside the stoppage to a swarm of Richmond smalls, or they intercept a hacked kick downfield and go the other side via quick HBF's, Houli, Edwards, Lambert, Ellis, MacIntosh etc. If they won the ball from the stoppage, they went quick directly towards goal at all times, but always towards preplanned parts of the ground to ensure that they could always have smalls around the balldrop in numbers and always towards a tall downfield - Jack, until they got a hold of Lynch - and either took the mark or swarmed an attempt at rebound.

This exhausted opposition mids and smalls, because Richmond played a game designed to minimize stoppages within matches and rested their quality players early in terms and games in order to unleash them late. This meant that Cotchin, Edwards, Dusty all looked dynamic and powerful in ways that didn't match how they played in previous years; it even helped players like Lambert and Caddy, because with the increased running opposition turned it over less than they did, and they became matchwinners late in games.

Dusty made it look even better, but let's not beat around the bush here. You had an excellent side with a clear tactical advantage that lasted until you began to tinker with it - in 2020 - when you tried to start winning the clearances and all of a sudden you're now not outrunning your opponents because - shocker - you can't position to win the ball whilst at the same time positioning to tackle, and the players had to work harder to do both. You were still good enough to win the flag, but how much of that was down to a good matchup on GF day?

And???

We're comparing peaks, not one day, and - again - team achievements are not individual peak.

Which ever way you spin it Dusty undoubtedly played a bigger role than GAJ in their flags. No Dusty No Tigers is a meme for a reason.

GAJ also had the advantage of being in a team with a better list then on top of that went to a start up club who’s game plan was just give it to Ablett. He didn’t give a shit about winning at the Suns so he stat hoarded. His useless awards at the Suns bar the AA and Brownlow makes him look better than he was. Do you seriously think 18 year olds could’ve won those B&Fs over GAJ lol


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[eaglespremiers]

Great shout.

Throw a ball in front of the four of them at their peak and Voss would win it.

Problem is that he would trail Judd to the loose ball by some margin.

 

[Gethelred]

Which ever way you spin it Dusty undoubtedly played a bigger role than GAJ in their flags. No Dusty No Tigers is a meme for a reason.

I wish I could handwave things others say with the equanimity you seem to do it with.

Hang on, I can! Watch me:

GAJ also had the advantage of being in a team with a better list then on top of that went to a start up club who’s game plan was just give it to Ablett. He didn’t give a s**t about winning at the Suns so he stat hoarded. His useless awards at the Suns bar the AA and Brownlow makes him look better than he was. Do you seriously think 18 year olds could’ve won those B&Fs over GAJ lol


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Nup. Wrong. The end.

See? Easy as.

 

[PhatBoy]

Which ever way you spin it Dusty undoubtedly played a bigger role than GAJ in their flags. No Dusty No Tigers is a meme for a reason.

GAJ also had the advantage of being in a team with a better list then on top of that went to a start up club who’s game plan was just give it to Ablett. He didn’t give a s**t about winning at the Suns so he stat hoarded. His useless awards at the Suns bar the AA and Brownlow makes him look better than he was. Do you seriously think 18 year olds could’ve won those B&Fs over GAJ lol


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Yes it’s obvious that he didn’t give a shit about winning at the suns that’s why their winning percentage skyrocketed from 60 per cent right up to about 13 per cent when he suffered his shoulder injury.

Because he stat padded. Not because he played to win. Because he wanted touches. That’s why they improved from 9-6 with him to 3-18 without him. Because he didn’t care about results. At a club in its fourth year. Because he stat padded. Didn’t win.

 

[Falcon3518]

I wish I could handwave things others say with the equanimity you seem to do it with.

Hang on, I can! Watch me:

Nup. Wrong. The end.

See? Easy as.

You didn’t read my next paragraph. It answers your question about how the teams helped Dusty and GAJ play. Lol

 

[Falcon3518]

Yes it’s obvious that he didn’t give a s**t about winning at the suns that’s why their winning percentage skyrocketed from 60 per cent right up to about 13 per cent when he suffered his shoulder injury.

Because he stat padded. Not because he played to win. Because he wanted touches. That’s why they improved from 9-6 with him to 3-18 without him. Because he didn’t care about results. At a club in its fourth year. Because he stat padded. Didn’t win.

Bro he went to the club purely for the money, he knew he was gonna win f all apart from individual awards. He was correct it was obvious 2 flags was enough and after 2010 didn’t think you guys could win another one. What an idiot

 

[Gethelred]

You didn’t read my next paragraph. It answers your question about how the teams helped Dusty and GAJ play. Lol

You handwaved the entirety of my reasoning as to why Richmond could've won flags without Dusty, and so provided me with an example of how an adult behaves when arguing: just ignore anything that disagrees with what you're saying, and you're golden. I thought I'd learn from your example.

Boy, isn't this fun!

 

[Headless]

Bro he went to the club purely for the money, he knew he was gonna win f all apart from individual awards. He was correct it was obvious 2 flags was enough and after 2010 didn’t think you guys could win another one. What an idiot

You have no idea what he thought.

 

[PhatBoy]

Bro he went to the club purely for the money, he knew he was gonna win f all apart from individual awards. He was correct it was obvious 2 flags was enough and after 2010 didn’t think you guys could win another one. What an idiot

As opposed to all the Tigers players who play for free.

Getting paid to play somewhere and trying to win are not mutually exclusive and the suggestion that one player because he signed a big deal didn’t want to win is as stupid as your statement about us bottling the grand final when your team bottled the game before it.

I suppose the guys who went to GWS and got them into finals within 4 years went for the love of the game too.

It’s amazing how Gary Ablett Jr is the only player who’s been paid this century. It’s remarkable how many other players actually pay their own registration and run onto the field just to win.

Let’s ignore the fact that Ablett himself shifted from flashy small forward to permanent League Best midfielder to actually spearhead Geelong’s charge to the top.

He did that because he wanted to stat pad too.


Btw Martin doesn’t even like Richmond he just has a gambling addiction and puts money on himself to achieve certain metrics every week.


See, I can do it too.

 

[Wojcinski]

We would’ve won against the 08 Hawks guaranteed. You guys fell asleep for some reason even with the apparent GOAT in your team at his PEAK.

Really? I seem to remember Richmond finishing 9th that year unable to beat most teams, let alone the eventual premiers

 

[Falcon3518]

You handwaved the entirety of my reasoning as to why Richmond could've won flags without Dusty, and so provided me with an example of how an adult behaves when arguing: just ignore anything that disagrees with what you're saying, and you're golden. I thought I'd learn from your example.

Boy, isn't this fun!

We don’t win any without him. Every tigers supporter says this. When he plays bad we generally lose and vice versa. The last two years is evidence of us losing when he is shit.

 

[PhatBoy]

You handwaved the entirety of my reasoning as to why Richmond could've won flags without Dusty, and so provided me with an example of how an adult behaves when arguing: just ignore anything that disagrees with what you're saying, and you're golden. I thought I'd learn from your example.

Boy, isn't this fun!

Get used to it mate it’s the only way he knows how to communicate

 

[PhatBoy]

We don’t win any without him. Every tigers supporter says this. When he plays bad we generally lose and vice versa. The last two years is evidence of us losing when he is s**t.

We don’t win any without Brad Ottens.

Which makes him as good as Dustin Martin, using your approach.

 

[Falcon3518]

You have no idea what he thought.

You reckon he left for a better chance at a flag with the Suns?

 

[Headless]

You reckon he left for a better chance at a flag with the Suns?

I have no idea what his motives were.

 

[Wojcinski]

We don’t win any without him. Every tigers supporter says this. When he plays bad we generally lose and vice versa. The last two years is evidence of us losing when he is s**t.

how come you didn't answer my previous post?

So when Dusty plays poorly Richmond loses finals and this somehow proves that his peak is better than GAJ's? Dusty shitting the bed vs Collingwood and Richmond losing is an example of being better than GAJ because when Collingwood beat Geelong in 2010 GAJ had 40 touches?