List Mgmt. Welcome Harley Reid (Pick 1, 2023 National Draft)

[eaglevision]

 

[Kegs15]

Negative but, after old mate wobbles came tumbling down the stairs to have a pop, it’s just a thought that has cumulatively built over time:

• I’ve never seen more grown men, be they media, umpires, opposition fans, opposition players, more keen to use one player to make a name for themselves. The Harley Reid treatment is astonishing and needs calling out. It was the thing that pissed me off the most with Simmo, he did a great job telling the media to just be a bit more aware of their actions on the way out, but needed to stamp down the agenda that there is seemingly this anything goes target on Harley because he had the audacity to be drafted Pick 1. Any Eagles fan who doesn’t go in to bat for this kid is a mug.

Sorry to quote this cross-thread but made more sense in here for the discussion (agree with it and your other posts on the topic).

Everyone's piling on him for worrying too much about the umpires, fighting opposition, mouthing off, not getting 30 touches and 5 goals, all that stuff.

I honestly cannot name another player who's come into the game with as much pressure surrounding him as Harley. Targeted in his first pre-season game, a billion articles, analysis of his every breath on every footy show, opposition mids in their late 20s scragging him all game, rule interpretations around taking too long to break a tackle brought in straight after his first season that would impact his game more than anyone's in the comp, not being looked after by umpires (for reasons partially self-inflicted sure), fans booing him, having to play full midfield in a shit side before he's fit enough to because his team is so thin there.

I forget who posted this (may have been you) but someone pointed out how much fun he was early on - both to watch and that he was clearly personally having fun. Taking people on for the sake of it, having a laugh when he was caught holding the ball but still cracking in, revving up the crowd but not stressing the negatives. There was a quote from him playing a stagnant game of VFL in his draft year where he mentioned throwing in a few fendoffs just to spice up the game a bit.

This is a kid who, at his best, plays footy for fun, is fun to watch, can put a big smile on your face the way Naitanui could. He's not a robot like Daicos or Sheezel who just function, function, function, probably go home after a game and plug themselves into their Tesla charging station and don't reboot till the next training session. Yet it feels like the fun and uniqueness is been crushed out of him.

There's a thread in The Mighty Ducks (the second one) where Bombay and the team buy into the hype and media, the pressure builds, they don't unite and it all leads to them losing their edge and getting belted by Iceland (a pack of Daicos robots). They turn things around two ways. The players get back to their roots playing street hockey against a local team who've been heckling them all tournament, and rediscover a bit of the fun and instinct of it for themselves. And Coach Bombay burns all his cardboard cutouts and sponsorship stuff and for their last session, instead of drilling them on tactics, reminds them hockey is about fun and they have a session with a beach ball and lassos and shit.

This is obviously a cheesy comparison but we really need to tap into it with Harley (and honestly some of our other players too). Get the whole club around him, burn all the media stuff (in a spiritual sense), go into bat for him, take aggressive stands in the media, let him know that to us, the players, club and even fans, that we just want to see him have fun out there and we'll back him in. If he's fighting someone, screw whether it's a good idea or not, tell some of our young boys like Hall, Ginbey, Hewett, Long, Dewar to get in there with him. He's probably weighed with so much pressure around getting caught HTB and the vitriol he'll receive - hell, get Mini to put as a KPI on the team board 3 solid fendoffs for the game and have the boys track that, have a laugh about it. Could do a world of good when opposition are in his ear all game, a leader like Duggan rather than just saying "ignore it mate" and leaving it to him, gives him a cheeky reminder in the fourth quarter that he still needs another don't-argue to hit his targets.

Yeah sure, he shouldn't stage, shouldn't stress about the umpires, should focus on his own game, all of that. I just truly believe that stuff will come from a different source to the Daicos robot method, where Pendles likely told him "just block out the noise and ignore everything" and Daicos beeped "affirmative". I think it'll come when we truly get around him, embrace him for who he is and acknowledge it rather than skirt around it - make it an us against them. Next time he gives the finger to the Brisbane crowd, how about Oscar joins him! Think this is a test for us as a club that's about more than Harley Reid - it's about how we'll respond when one of our players is targeted. Don't care what Damian Barrett says, don't care if we're losing and it looks too big for our boots, don't care about any of the optics. Let's get bloody unsociable.

 

[Quinten Kennedy]

Sorry to quote this cross-thread but made more sense in here for the discussion (agree with it and your other posts on the topic).

Everyone's piling on him for worrying too much about the umpires, fighting opposition, mouthing off, not getting 30 touches and 5 goals, all that stuff.

I honestly cannot name another player who's come into the game with as much pressure surrounding him as Harley. Targeted in his first pre-season game, a billion articles, analysis of his every breath on every footy show, opposition mids in their late 20s scragging him all game, rule interpretations around taking too long to break a tackle brought in straight after his first season that would impact his game more than anyone's in the comp, not being looked after by umpires (for reasons partially self-inflicted sure), fans booing him, having to play full midfield in a shit side before he's fit enough to because his team is so thin there.

I forget who posted this (may have been you) but someone pointed out how much fun he was early on - both to watch and that he was clearly personally having fun. Taking people on for the sake of it, having a laugh when he was caught holding the ball but still cracking in, revving up the crowd but not stressing the negatives. There was a quote from him playing a stagnant game of VFL in his draft year where he mentioned throwing in a few fendoffs just to spice up the game a bit.

This is a kid who, at his best, plays footy for fun, is fun to watch, can put a big smile on your face the way Naitanui could. He's not a robot like Daicos or Sheezel who just function, function, function, probably go home after a game and plug themselves into their Tesla charging station and don't reboot till the next training session. Yet it feels like the fun and uniqueness is been crushed out of him.

There's a thread in The Mighty Ducks (the second one) where Bombay and the team buy into the hype and media, the pressure builds, they don't unite and it all leads to them losing their edge and getting belted by Iceland (a pack of Daicos robots). They turn things around two ways. The players get back to their roots playing street hockey against a local team who've been heckling them all tournament, and rediscover a bit of the fun and instinct of it for themselves. And Coach Bombay burns all his cardboard cutouts and sponsorship stuff and for their last session, instead of drilling them on tactics, reminds them hockey is about fun and they have a session with a beach ball and lassos and shit.

This is obviously a cheesy comparison but we really need to tap into it with Harley (and honestly some of our other players too). Get the whole club around him, burn all the media stuff (in a spiritual sense), go into bat for him, take aggressive stands in the media, let him know that to us, the players, club and even fans, that we just want to see him have fun out there and we'll back him in. If he's fighting someone, screw whether it's a good idea or not, tell some of our young boys like Hall, Ginbey, Hewett, Long, Dewar to get in there with him. He's probably weighed with so much pressure around getting caught HTB and the vitriol he'll receive - hell, get Mini to put as a KPI on the team board 3 solid fendoffs for the game and have the boys track that, have a laugh about it. Could do a world of good when opposition are in his ear all game, a leader like Duggan rather than just saying "ignore it mate" and leaving it to him, gives him a cheeky reminder in the fourth quarter that he still needs another don't-argue to hit his targets.

Yeah sure, he shouldn't stage, shouldn't stress about the umpires, should focus on his own game, all of that. I just truly believe that stuff will come from a different source to the Daicos robot method, where Pendles likely told him "just block out the noise and ignore everything" and Daicos beeped "affirmative". I think it'll come when we truly get around him, embrace him for who he is and acknowledge it rather than skirt around it - make it an us against them. Next time he gives the finger to the Brisbane crowd, how about Oscar joins him! Think this is a test for us as a club that's about more than Harley Reid - it's about how we'll respond when one of our players is targeted. Don't care what Damian Barrett says, don't care if we're losing and it looks too big for our boots, don't care about any of the optics. Let's get bloody unsociable.

The talent is raw, but it's abundant and obvious. His so called "bad attitude" will serve him well when he matures and can harness that angst.

He's a kid. Lets get behind him.

 

[DorothyG]

Quack, quack, quack, quack

 

[WCE777]

Sorry to quote this cross-thread but made more sense in here for the discussion (agree with it and your other posts on the topic).

Everyone's piling on him for worrying too much about the umpires, fighting opposition, mouthing off, not getting 30 touches and 5 goals, all that stuff.

I honestly cannot name another player who's come into the game with as much pressure surrounding him as Harley. Targeted in his first pre-season game, a billion articles, analysis of his every breath on every footy show, opposition mids in their late 20s scragging him all game, rule interpretations around taking too long to break a tackle brought in straight after his first season that would impact his game more than anyone's in the comp, not being looked after by umpires (for reasons partially self-inflicted sure), fans booing him, having to play full midfield in a shit side before he's fit enough to because his team is so thin there.

I forget who posted this (may have been you) but someone pointed out how much fun he was early on - both to watch and that he was clearly personally having fun. Taking people on for the sake of it, having a laugh when he was caught holding the ball but still cracking in, revving up the crowd but not stressing the negatives. There was a quote from him playing a stagnant game of VFL in his draft year where he mentioned throwing in a few fendoffs just to spice up the game a bit.

This is a kid who, at his best, plays footy for fun, is fun to watch, can put a big smile on your face the way Naitanui could. He's not a robot like Daicos or Sheezel who just function, function, function, probably go home after a game and plug themselves into their Tesla charging station and don't reboot till the next training session. Yet it feels like the fun and uniqueness is been crushed out of him.

There's a thread in The Mighty Ducks (the second one) where Bombay and the team buy into the hype and media, the pressure builds, they don't unite and it all leads to them losing their edge and getting belted by Iceland (a pack of Daicos robots). They turn things around two ways. The players get back to their roots playing street hockey against a local team who've been heckling them all tournament, and rediscover a bit of the fun and instinct of it for themselves. And Coach Bombay burns all his cardboard cutouts and sponsorship stuff and for their last session, instead of drilling them on tactics, reminds them hockey is about fun and they have a session with a beach ball and lassos and shit.

This is obviously a cheesy comparison but we really need to tap into it with Harley (and honestly some of our other players too). Get the whole club around him, burn all the media stuff (in a spiritual sense), go into bat for him, take aggressive stands in the media, let him know that to us, the players, club and even fans, that we just want to see him have fun out there and we'll back him in. If he's fighting someone, screw whether it's a good idea or not, tell some of our young boys like Hall, Ginbey, Hewett, Long, Dewar to get in there with him. He's probably weighed with so much pressure around getting caught HTB and the vitriol he'll receive - hell, get Mini to put as a KPI on the team board 3 solid fendoffs for the game and have the boys track that, have a laugh about it. Could do a world of good when opposition are in his ear all game, a leader like Duggan rather than just saying "ignore it mate" and leaving it to him, gives him a cheeky reminder in the fourth quarter that he still needs another don't-argue to hit his targets.

Yeah sure, he shouldn't stage, shouldn't stress about the umpires, should focus on his own game, all of that. I just truly believe that stuff will come from a different source to the Daicos robot method, where Pendles likely told him "just block out the noise and ignore everything" and Daicos beeped "affirmative". I think it'll come when we truly get around him, embrace him for who he is and acknowledge it rather than skirt around it - make it an us against them. Next time he gives the finger to the Brisbane crowd, how about Oscar joins him! Think this is a test for us as a club that's about more than Harley Reid - it's about how we'll respond when one of our players is targeted. Don't care what Damian Barrett says, don't care if we're losing and it looks too big for our boots, don't care about any of the optics. Let's get bloody unsociable.

here here, well said
I thought mini press conference was good, sometimes you can bash the theatre out of the game, Harley and the club have a clear plan of what is expected of him and who he should listen too!!

 

[squashface]

I reckon he has a big game this week - smokey for the Glendinning

 

[eaglespremiers]

Harley was decent today. He was obviously targeted by the Lions players, the crowd and the umpires.
If he was an Ashcroft or Daicos he'd be receiving an extra 6 disposals a game from free kicks. That would help with the stat padding.

None of this should be surprising.
When Harley plays mid he is currently our no. 1 player there. Duggan is not an AFL level midfielder. Graham can be decent but has a very obvious ceiling. Kelly was poor last week and his kicking going forward was atrocious today (he killed our momentum on several occasions). Hall played his 2nd full game today and was good, but will take time to adjust to AFL level. Hewett, only played through the centre in spurts. Ditto Owies (who isn't really a midfielder anyway).
Then it doesn't help when both rucks go down for the final quarter, as they did today.
Add to this that both the Gold Coast and Brisbane midfields are in the top echelon in the AFL.

McKercher (the no. 2 pick) was not better than Harley today. McKercher had 0 clearances, laid 2 tackles, had 2 contested disposals and still only went at 53% disposal efficiency. McKercher is going to be chased hard by the go-home factor in a couple of years. And yet, despite McKercher's less impressive game and his likeliness to go back to Tasmania the media don't scrutinise him. The only "meaningful" article on McKercher in recent times is on him kicking his first goal (which he kicked today in his 18th game).

McKercher will be a great player, but he's not there yet. However, McKercher is surrounded by Davies-Uniacke, Sheezel, Powell, Simpkin and Parker. And they're ruck is Xerri (who I would argue is the best ruck in the league, absolutely monstered Gawn today).

Nobody is arguing that McKercher is not progressing and developing on a normal curve expected on him.
He certainly wasn't better than Harley last year, and he has far more support than Harley currently does, so what gives?

If we continue to name players who are not midfielders (certainly not inside midfielders, at least, not yet) then against the better midfields we are going to struggle. If we continue to name ruckmen who aren't up to the standard (or can't run out the game) then why are we surprised when our "midfield" is getting no supply. There were multiple occasions today when McInerney took the ball cleanly out of the ruck and handballed to a moving Neale in the last quarter. Neale's direct opponent was checked by Dunkley or McCluggage. There was limited counterplay that our midfielders could really undertake to stop this, given their own deficiencies.

You could say that Harley was underdone coming into the season (whether by his fault or external aspects he couldn't control), regardless Harley struggling is an inevitable consequence of us having a very average ruck brigade and a midfield unit that isn't big enough to match with the midfield bulls or fast enough to burn the opposition on the outside.

But we all knew this. We have a huge personnel issue which we were all aware of and this deficiency has not been improved in any meaningful way over the off-season (and Yeo going down has hurt it significantly).

Saying that this is Harley's fault is just shifting the blame. These are systemic issues that will take time to fix because we don't have the personnel for any quick fixes atm.

 

[Coasters7]

The attitude is fine. Has that dog in him and when he learns to harness that and apply it to his football I think the league will be on notice

 

[Quinten Kennedy]

I reckon he has a big game this week - smokey for the Glendinning

As I just said to my Docker neighbours... You may get your first win... But problem is Harley is going to go apeshit. Nothing surer. And that's a problem for any team.

 

[Keys]

Couple of thoughts on young Harley

1) Most of the media attention currently is coming from over east, not all obviously, but most which is somewhat ironic since they like to point out the presumed negative impact the WA fishbowl is having on him.

The implication is that if he returns to the homeland the scrutiny will subside which is complete and utter bullshit

I don’t think he leaves for a short, or even medium term contract - it’s going to be for a godfather offer like to $20m over 10 years being spruiked. That being the case the attention is only going to amplify along with expectation to perform

2) The St Kilda game is/was a turning point in his onfield demeanour stemming in no small part from the way opposition teams went after him and how he was umpired.

In the 10 games he played from R1 to 11 he received 26 free kicks and gave away 17, headlined by a 7 for/2 against Adelaide in R11 which drew criticism for perceived favourable treatment and his contribution to drawing free kicks

Enter St Kilda and Ross Lyon sending Windholder to him in the second half after Harley lit them up in the second quarter (13 disposals).

Despite being tagged heavily and consistently held off the ball he received no free kicks. Frustrated he was penalised 4 times after half time including for the sling tackle that he was ultimately suspended for (largely due to the potential to cause injury that wasn’t used before or subsequently by the tribunal)

Including the St Kilda game, the free kick tally has been 15 for/37 against across 12 games. Quite the turnaround

I don’t think Harley helps himself the way he regularly pleads to the umpires nor how he feels the need to retaliate to almost any contact no matter how insignificant. But…

he gets little to no protection from the umpires and opposition sides know they can target him with virtual impunity

Im not sure what the solution is because he’s so naturally combative but somehow he needs to direct his aggression at the ball and do his best to not react to the physical attention. The club might also like to put together a video package for the umpiring department highlighting the treatment he receives off the ball

 

[stallon]

No doubt the umpires are all affected by what they hear in the media and whatever else, if all they hear from media is that Harley likes to fight and that hes playing for frees theyre just not going to do him any favours, or eve look after him to the basic level.
If the media didnt amplify every time he reacts to anything into 5 stories for the week and try to be psychologists assuming what Reid thinks then the umpires would (id imagine) be less against giving him the odd free.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I reckon he has a big game this week - smokey for the Glendinning

I'm still really annoyed he was robbed of one last year.

 

[Boohemian]

Harley is evidence that tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in Australia.

 

[DorothyG]

Harley is evidence that tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in Australia.

The great Australian past time

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

he gets little to no protection from the umpires OR HIS TEAMMATES and opposition sides know they can target him with virtual impunity

Fixed

 

[lmach]

The flog asking McQ in his presser about Harley's exchange was funny as. Sounded like he was scared to even ask him – could barely string two words together

 

[YeoGabbaGabba]

Fixed

Yep. Might be looking too much into it but I’m still rubbed the wrong way at when Hewett was cleaned up by De Goey a few years ago - not a single player other than Greg Clark went to stick up for his teammate who had just gotten hurt. There were more Pies blokes sticking up for JDG, that irks me still

 

[ioppolo]

Yep. Might be looking too much into it but I’m still rubbed the wrong way at when Hewett was cleaned up by De Goey a few years ago - not a single player other than Greg Clark went to stick up for his teammate who had just gotten hurt. There were more Pies blokes sticking up for JDG, that irks me still

Yeah I haven't forgotten that either. The last time we stood up for anyone (in my memory) was when Jonas knocked out Gaffy in 2016.

 

[ziad]

Great to have a combative player on the list. We have had very few. The three old blokes that joined over Christmas have all led the way.
Harley has class. He won a contested ball under real pressure and looked at a stationary BW as the first handball option. Most of our players would have taken that every time. Harley paused, still under pressure, to hand ball to a runner - game on and a 50 entry again.

 

[SAweagle]

realistically what do we get for reid when he goes end of next year?

if they pull the same stunt as pick 3 last year and we end up with two rejects and a ball butcher midget i will be somewhat displeased

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

realistically what do we get for reid when he goes end of next year?

if they pull the same stunt as pick 3 last year and we end up with two rejects and a ball butcher midget i will be somewhat displeased

We've got a few choices to make.

Do we let Harley go in to next year uncontracted? WE could potentially get less given his contract status, but he might also have a Judd like year 3 and win a Brownlow inflating his price.

There's also Tassie. We need to make sure that we don't accept 2027 picks (unless it's almost guaranteed to be a top 3 pick) for Harley. Tassie has 7 picks in top 13 with the first being pick 3. Any compo for Harley will be greatly diluted in 2027 draft.

Also - who has what picks this year? IF Essendon and Melbourne are both top 4, and Essendon have pick 3,4,23,25 and F1 as they currently do. Do we just deal with bombers this year and clean them out?

If we get to October this year and Harley hasn't extended there are some important decisions that need to be made.

 

[SAweagle]

We've got a few choices to make.

Do we let Harley go in to next year uncontracted? WE could potentially get less given his contract status, but he might also have a Judd like year 3 and win a Brownlow inflating his price.

There's also Tassie. We need to make sure that we don't accept 2027 picks (unless it's almost guaranteed to be a top 3 pick) for Harley. Tassie has 7 picks in top 13 with the first being pick 3. Any compo for Harley will be greatly diluted in 2027 draft.

Also - who has what picks this year? IF Essendon and Melbourne are both top 4, and Essendon have pick 3,4,23,25 and F1 as they currently do. Do we just deal with bombers this year and clean them out?

If we get to October this year and Harley hasn't extended there are some important decisions that need to be made.

Just a complete shambolic sh!tshow at WC, zero leadership zero foresight zero backbone and incredibly dumb trading

Reid goes out as Tassie comes in and completely ruins the draft and the supporters will be asked to swallow yet another sh!t sandwich. Pick 9 and 29 for reid or some other bulldust, can almost gurantee Hawthorn or Collingwood will see the best of him. Yeah thanks fellas. Done with these pretenders.

 

[DorothyG]

Just a complete shambolic sh!tshow at WC, zero leadership zero foresight zero backbone and incredibly dumb trading

Reid goes out as Tassie comes in and completely ruins the draft and the supporters will be asked to swallow yet another sh!t sandwich. Pick 9 and 29 for reid or some other bulldust, can almost gurantee Hawthorn or Collingwood will see the best of him. Yeah thanks fellas. Done with these pretenders.

 

[squashface]

And around and around we go

 

[squashface]

Hey everyone not sure if this has been discussed yet but what would we get for Harley Reid in a trade?

Thanks

 

[bzparkes]

Old mate's just worked himself into a complete meltdown and crashed out over a worst case scenario in his head that could happen in 2 years' time...