News Welcome to Hawthorn Jon Patton : Retired

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Personally don't see him ever playing for Hawthorn again. Even if he was found to have no criminal case to answer for - I wouldn't imagine we'd keep him on the list in 2022 given everything that has occurred.

The mental health stuff is a real concern. When he broke down uncontrollably late last year with a soft tissue injury it appeared things weren't quite right. Hopefully he gets through this. The AFL will want this to go away as quickly or quietly as possible.

 

[Gralin]

I don't see him coming back from this to play AFL footy again

 

[mick]

Can't see how he plays again this year. From a physical POV, it will take too long to get ready, not to mention his mental ailments.

If he doesn't play at all in 2021, gee it makes it tough to play in 2022 and onwards.

Well if Stephen Milne could come back from being accused of rape in 2004 and avoid being charged for nearly 10 years all while being publicly vilified as a rapist (to the degree that oppo coaches could call him a rapist while he was playing) then I suppose any recovery is possible, but I just don't see it with Patton. I think it would be better for the club and him if he just left, and got treatment for whatever issues he has.

Times have changed though, in 2004 Demetriou has no issue with Milne playing and thought any sort of decision to stop him would be pre-empting the Police investigation. These days, the Afl doesn't need the police, they do their own investigating. That is probably a good thing. But it does strike me as strange that a chap who admitted to sexual assault was able to continue a career longer than a bloke who denies sending offensive dick pics. I guess it just reflects how community standards have changed, which really is a good thing.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Well if Stephen Milne could come back from being accused of rape in 2004 and avoid being charged for nearly 10 years all while being publicly vilified as a rapist (to the degree that oppo coaches could call him a rapist while he was playing) then I suppose any recovery is possible, but I just don't see it with Patton. I think it would be better for the club and him if he just left, and got treatment for whatever issues he has.

Times have changed though, in 2004 Demetriou has no issue with Milne playing and thought any sort of decision to stop him would be pre-empting the Police investigation. These days, the Afl doesn't need the police, they do their own investigating. That is probably a good thing. But it does strike me as strange that a chap who admitted to sexual assault was able to continue a career longer than a bloke who denies sending offensive dick pics. I guess it just reflects how community standards have changed, which really is a good thing.

Milne always professed innocence however and only plead guilty to lesser charges in 2014. You’re right about 2004 being very different. Both major football leagues still aren’t perfect - Blake Ferguson is still playing in the NRL despite a guilty verdict for indecent assault. The AFL still venerates Ablett Snr and Michael O’Laughlin despite their mistreatment of women - not to mention the media giving Carey multiple channels and incomes despite his abuse of women.

 

[Brishawk]

Maybe I am missing on certain points - obviously English, Literature, Biology, Psychology can address components of the issue in a more relatable way through media or whatever else. I still feel as though it's no less aspirational than empowering parents.

Purely from my experience of a public school in a poor area, with the people I knew and were friends with at that school, there were definitely more impacts from their home life than the 8 hours they spent in a classroom. Like you said, if parents are alcoholics kids are pre-disposed that way, mentalities towards people and genders carry over - so at what point is all of the effort at school being overridden by what is happening at home? Particularly in the case of my school where the teachers were somewhat short of role models or inspiring.

The thing is that home life plays a massive role already. How do we help parents empower themselves? Maybe financial incentives for taking adult learning classes and seminars around broaching those issues with your kids? Maybe investment in non-corny media on difficult issues to show kids and young adults? They could all help.

I don't really have an answer, because the more you analyse the issue the more causes you realise - broken families, separated parents, emotional distance between one more than the other. I stand by my opinion that schools can only do so much, and reinforcing how to be a functional human being is something that must be passed on through your parents and family. I also admit I don't have a solution, but schools aren't it.

At school they can guarantee delivery and test students for comprehension. At home we can’t do anything.

Don’t forget the government already spends hundreds of millions on services to support economic and socially disadvantaged families. This isn’t money badly spent however it has limitations. School is the best way of breaking the inter generational process that lead to persistent disadvantage because it is also the most feasible approach. There are already resources available to parents but they are under-utilised. Parents don’t always no best even where they have the right intentions. How do you encourage parents to find the resources, understand them and provide a home environment in which those values are reinforced? The government will never have that level of control or influence over the household. It is in no way feasible to expect societal change through a household focused program of this kind. You chip away at it from many angles. If you offered incentives, how would you know it was delivered? The only environment that government does have the requisite control and ability to monitor outcomes is schools. I 100% agree household would be the best place for this except it isn’t practical in anyway.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

At school they can guarantee delivery and test students for comprehension. At home we can’t do anything.

Don’t forget the government already spends hundreds of millions on services to support economic and socially disadvantaged families. This isn’t money badly spent however it has limitations. School is the best way of breaking the inter generational process that lead to persistent disadvantage because it is also the most feasible approach. There are already resources available to parents but they are under-utilised. Parents don’t always no best even where they have the right intentions. How do you encourage parents to find the resources, understand them and provide a home environment in which those values are reinforced? The government will never have that level of control or influence over the household. It is in no way feasible to expect societal change through a household focused program of this kind. You chip away at it from many angles. If you offered incentives, how would you know it was delivered? The only environment that government does have the requisite control and ability to monitor outcomes is schools. I 100% agree household would be the best place for this except it isn’t practical in anyway.

In addition to this if you have things controlled in an educational environment you don’t have the potential for kids to be more open than they would be to their parents - particularly with a subject like sex. A lot of parents police their kid’s sexuality and this protective nature could stymie an impartial education on these types of things.

I wouldn’t expect most kids to have an open dialogue with their parents about something like sexting for example. However the ramifications of this now are massive - not only revenge pr0n but also the fact that a kid under 18 voluntarily sexting with someone in their age bracket could be charged for production of child exploitation material. Kids need to know these kinds of things because do you really want your kid to end up on a sex offender register for the rest of their lives.

Having this kind of thing covered in schools allows more chance of an impartial and non judgemental dialogue about these things than I think it would with parents. My parents were pretty liberal and had ‘the talk’ with me at a young age but I dare say if I was a kid now I wouldn’t go to them ‘hey mum so I’m sexting my girlfriend and need some advice’. I’m sure there are many engaged and adept parents covering this - but for the ones that aren’t as good at this kind of thing I don’t see the harm in schools teaching some valuable life skills.

 

[MrPremiership]

Well if Stephen Milne could come back from being accused of rape in 2004 and avoid being charged for nearly 10 years all while being publicly vilified as a rapist (to the degree that oppo coaches could call him a rapist while he was playing) then I suppose any recovery is possible, but I just don't see it with Patton. I think it would be better for the club and him if he just left, and got treatment for whatever issues he has.

Times have changed though, in 2004 Demetriou has no issue with Milne playing and thought any sort of decision to stop him would be pre-empting the Police investigation. These days, the Afl doesn't need the police, they do their own investigating. That is probably a good thing. But it does strike me as strange that a chap who admitted to sexual assault was able to continue a career longer than a bloke who denies sending offensive dick pics. I guess it just reflects how community standards have changed, which really is a good thing.

Dude, chill and read my post.

Regardless the outcome of the investigation, the clock is ticking for him to get his body right to get a game. Coupled with his long injury history, it's going to be hard for him to play

 

[MrPremiership]

Personally don't see him ever playing for Hawthorn again. Even if he was found to have no criminal case to answer for - I wouldn't imagine we'd keep him on the list in 2022 given everything that has occurred.

If he can't manage a game this year, going into 2022 he would have played 6 games in 3.5 years and on the verge of 29yo.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

If he can't manage a game this year, going into 2022 he would have played 6 games in 3.5 years and on the verge of 29yo.

Dare say it’ll be up to whatever EFL or VAFA side he signs up with.

 

[mick]

Both major football leagues still aren’t perfect - Blake Ferguson is still playing in the NRL despite a guilty verdict for indecent assault. .

Wait a minute are you suggesting if a player gets convicted of an offence he shouldn't be able to play again - ever? What offences should be bannable for life? Hodge's drink driving and risking innocent peoples lives was pretty massive stuff up, casualty crash risk doubles when driving with an alcohol level just in excess of 0.05 BAC, and the risk of involvement in fatal crash increases even more sharply. The club has been extremely clear with players on the dangers of drink driving since at least Peter Schwab's time as coach -but Hodge still did it, he risked other peoples lives, and went on to play in 2 more flags In fact we let him play in the final two weeks later.

At the time I thought we did the right thing (from an admittedly Hawthorn biased viewpoint)

Ferguson was stopped from playing for two years. I'm not sure he got off that lightly, and certainly has received his share of public scorn.

Was the AFL/ Hawthorn too light on Hodge? Or is it only sex offences that should bannable for life? Are drink driving and drug offences ok and understandable for professional players? Far, far more people are permanently incapacitated or killed by the latter offences. I guess misogyny and sexism affect far more people (half the population) so I taking a stand is very important, but a life ban seems harsh.

 

[rei154]

Wait a minute are you suggesting if a player gets convicted of an offence he shouldn't be able to play again - ever? What offences should be bannable for life? Hodge's drink driving and risking innocent peoples lives was pretty massive stuff up, casualty crash risk doubles when driving with an alcohol level just in excess of 0.05 BAC, and the risk of involvement in fatal crash increases even more sharply. The club has been extremely clear with players on the dangers of drink driving since at least Peter Schwab's time as coach -but Hodge still did it, he risked other peoples lives, and went on to play in 2 more flags In fact we let him play in the final two weeks later.

At the time I thought we did the right thing (from an admittedly Hawthorn biased viewpoint)

Ferguson was stopped from playing for two years. I'm not sure he got off that lightly, and certainly has received his share of public scorn.

Was the AFL/ Hawthorn too light on Hodge? Or is it only sex offences that should bannable for life? Are drink driving and drug offences ok and understandable for professional players? Far, far more people are permanently incapacitated or killed by the latter offences. I guess misogyny and sexism affect far more people (half the population) so I taking a stand is very important, but a life ban seems harsh.

Difference between the two situations is one is potential for harm (drink driving) the other is direct harm/harassment of bulk people. If Hodge had injured someone seirously/had done some form of serious property damage I wouldn't be surprised if he was sent off into the sun.

 

[Brant]

Difference between the two situations is one is potential for harm (drink driving) the other is direct harm/harassment of bulk people. If Hodge had injured someone seirously/had done some form of serious property damage I wouldn't be surprised if he was sent off into the sun.

Pretty sure half of Collingwood's list have been in prison at some stage.

 

[mick]

Difference between the two situations is one is potential for harm (drink driving) the other is direct harm/harassment of bulk people. If Hodge had injured someone seirously/had done some form of serious property damage I wouldn't be surprised if he was sent off into the sun.

Huh? Blake Ferguson groped one woman, in a nightclub while drunk.

How is that bulk people?

Carey is accused of doing it to bulk people, no charges were laid. It would have been overs to give him a life ban for the first grope I think.

Hodge damaged the club and the AFL competition. How "seriously" would Hodge have to damage someone to get a ban like Ferguson- how much more seriously than a potentially bruised breast like Ferguson did. (or a squeeze on the arse like Chol got at Richmond for that matter).

Speaking of Chol, I think there are different standards depending on the gender, and it really doesn't seem fair. Chol was molested, but there is no way he would want his team mates to face charges or even the sort of public scrutiny they got, let alone a life ban. In my mind those Tiger lads committed an offense almost as bad as Ferguson (it wasn't a complete stranger -not saying its ok to molest friends, just a stranger in a nightclub seems worse) . They were in a position of power and they sexually assaulted Chol, when he clearly objected. As nasty as that is, I do not think in any way those players should be banned for life. It is just not proportionate to the crime

 

[rei154]

Huh? Blake Ferguson groped one woman, in a nightclub while drunk.

How is that bulk people?

Carey is accused of doing it to bulk people, no charges were laid. It would have been overs to give him a life ban for the first grope I think

Sorry- was referring to Hodge/Patton. Don't know enough about the others.
Carey deserved a life ban for a few reasons in my eyes. Who knows, maybe if there were serious repercussions after the first things would have been different.

 

[mick]

Sorry- was referring to Hodge/Patton. Don't know enough about the others.
Carey deserved a life ban for a few reasons in my eyes. Who knows, maybe if there were serious repercussions after the first things would have been different.

Sorry man, I edited before I saw you reply. Agree re Carey, things could have been a lot different if his first grope victim called him out like maggie carter called out Patton.

 

[rei154]

Sorry man, I edited before I saw you reply. Agree re Carey, things could have been a lot different if his first grope victim called him out like maggie carter called out Patton.

From what I've heard football in the 80s/90s was a minefield of these kinds of issues- who knows what could have happened! All I hope for is the continual growth of the code for it.

 

[Davo23]

The law ALWAYS applies to facts

Facts always exist within context

The law is not some stale and ahistorical form of governance which infinitely relativises all sets of circumstances

Thickie

No, no, no, that’s wrong, have a look at this thread - facts are

1. “I saw it on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter”
2. “I saw the screenshots”
3. “Someone told me and they got it from someone else, who knew stuff”

But, on the other, a finding of fact based on evidence given under oath, subject to cross examination?
What a load of unreliable nonsense!

 

[MrPremiership]

If Hawthorn or the AFL sack him, how does that effect our TPP? Does it all get carved out?

 

[William Wonka]

Can we please stop using the term 'victim' when describing someone who saw a picture of a dick on the internet?

 

[Gralin]

Can we please stop using the term 'victim' when describing someone who saw a picture of a dick on the internet?

No

 

[Rushed_Behind]

I’m still trying to figure out if it’s Jon’s teachers at primary or high school that we should be blaming.

 

[Hawk Hawkins]

Can we please stop using the term 'victim' when describing someone who saw a picture of a dick on the internet?

I’ve seen plenty of dicks on the internet. Ever been to the Geelong bored after they beat us?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I’ve seen plenty of dicks on the internet. Ever been to the Geelong bored after they beat us?

#sobrave

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Wait a minute are you suggesting if a player gets convicted of an offence he shouldn't be able to play again - ever? What offences should be bannable for life? Hodge's drink driving and risking innocent peoples lives was pretty massive stuff up, casualty crash risk doubles when driving with an alcohol level just in excess of 0.05 BAC, and the risk of involvement in fatal crash increases even more sharply. The club has been extremely clear with players on the dangers of drink driving since at least Peter Schwab's time as coach -but Hodge still did it, he risked other peoples lives, and went on to play in 2 more flags In fact we let him play in the final two weeks later.

At the time I thought we did the right thing (from an admittedly Hawthorn biased viewpoint)

Ferguson was stopped from playing for two years. I'm not sure he got off that lightly, and certainly has received his share of public scorn.

Was the AFL/ Hawthorn too light on Hodge? Or is it only sex offences that should bannable for life? Are drink driving and drug offences ok and understandable for professional players? Far, far more people are permanently incapacitated or killed by the latter offences. I guess misogyny and sexism affect far more people (half the population) so I taking a stand is very important, but a life ban seems harsh.

Mate it wasn’t just ‘groping a woman’ as you diminish it to. It was sexual assault of a complete stranger which he passed off as ‘oh I thought it was some other woman I hooked up with that night’. Class act. Yes he should have been rubbed out of the game for good. Todd Carney couldn’t get a gig in the game after pissing in his mouth but digital rape is a forgivable sin? Give me a break. I’m glad my club sacked him. It’s a highly paid profession and if you throw that away by bashing your partner or terrorising a family by violently invading their home (Matt Lodge) then you absolutely surrender your right to play at the highest level in my eyes. I’m not allowed to do my job with a criminal record - and it pays a fraction of what a highly paid professional athlete does.

Comparing sexual assault to low range drink driving? Honestly, spare me. Let’s put it this way - if you had a mate who had been done for low range drink driving and a mate who thought it was kosher to grab a woman’s genitals under her underwear without any inkling of consent - which one are you going to pick to babysit your kids?

 

[Brant]

Let’s put it this way - if you had a mate who had been done for low range drink driving and a mate who thought it was kosher to grab a woman’s genitals under her underwear without any inkling of consent - which one are you going to pick to babysit your kids?

Whichever mate hated Essendon the most?