Welcome to the Club pick 46 Western Bulldogs Caleb Daniel

[Pannalstaroz]

Jones is soft.

Boys don't for one second think the club wanted Jones out. They wanted to keep him but he believed he was mis managed and he wanted to go. I think we all agree he would have been a lot more productive alongside Boyd but it is what it is.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Problem is with another big body in the forward line where does jones fit?

Boyd would ideally be close to goal so do we put jones up the ground where his horrible field kicking and general lack of two-way pressure makes him a liability? Or do we have him close to goal and worry about his lack of a football brain causing him to get in the way?

Don't mention that one season he played with hall - people tend to overrate his performance there based purely on contested marking stats. His output otherwise wasn't much of an improvement on his usual form.

Being a South Aussie myself I've kept an eye on Daniel in the sanfl and I'm not as ready to write him off as you are. In fact to say he won't make it "pure and simple" based on your limited exposure to him speaks volumes of your mindset. It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and bitch and moan but harder to analyse evidence and form an opinion from that.

It's also easier to be negative - history says more players and coaches won't have successful records in the AFL. Putting your neck on the line saying people won't make it is easier than saying they will.

 

[fargy]

It's also easier to be negative - history says more players and coaches won't have successful records in the AFL. Putting your neck on the line saying people won't make it is easier than saying they will.

So people shouldn't say what they believe to be true because it's easier?

 

[Pannalstaroz]

So people shouldn't say what they believe to be true because it's easier?

People who are consistently and overtly negative and without rational supporting arguments, should not have their opinions treated the same as those with a more balanced view, yes. The same goes for those with a consistently and solely positive view.

 

[JJHunter]

You could tattoo 'SECOND EFFORTS' on Jones' forehead and even with the amount of time he would spend in front of a mirror, he'd still never amount to anything.

Still even with all his flaws he offered the club more than what Cordy and Redpath do. Possibly even Grant.
Yet everyone willing to sink the boots in when we have guys still on our list that are avoiding similar criticism.

 

[yebiga]

Who is sinking the boot into Caleb? - it's a disgrace!

 

[the conch]

Agree. Of all the WB draftees' highlights packages, Daniel's (from Skippos I think) was the one that impressed me most. But that's pretty much all I've got to go on in comparing them. As we've seen in the past, highlights packages can be misleading.

Yea but his movemnt is elite and not just optical illusion as seen by his beeb tests etc.

 

[the conch]

I don't agree with you about Daniel (I reckon someone with his skills will always be in with a shot) but I do agree that Jones is a major loss. With Boyd in now he would have been let loose a bit. I think he's our biggest out this off season behind Griffen.

I agree but we gotta let it go. Hope he does well for carlton

 

[boydsno1]

I think Jones would have been quality next to Boyd but so be it. I have faith Redpath can be that guy.

 

[DognBones]

Is he wearing his helmet from next season on?

If we are concerned about Caleb's lack of inches, surely there are options that would add stature to the man. Here are a few for serious consideration:

 

[Yojimbo]

I agree but we gotta let it go. Hope he does well for carlton

I agree with you, but this is not the frozen thread they don't do "Let it go"
at bulldogs big footy as a rule.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Still even with all his flaws he offered the club more than what Cordy and Redpath do. Possibly even Grant.
Yet everyone willing to sink the boots in when we have guys still on our list that are avoiding similar criticism.

I agree, but we drafted Caleb with the pick we received for Jones - that's why I'm ragging on him in here.

 

[Dry Rot]

Funny old world.

For years I said Jones was a dud, and most here sharply disagreed with me.

 

[maddog37]

Boys don't for one second think the club wanted Jones out. They wanted to keep him but he believed he was mis managed and he wanted to go. I think we all agree he would have been a lot more productive alongside Boyd but it is what it is.

Perhaps I should expand. Jones is timid and lacks belief in himself. He has talent and at his size he should not be in any discussion about second man up, rather, he should be the main man. He lacks the mental capabilities to be a solid key position player. Him leaving the club for a second chance elsewhere when we wanted him to stay has merely reaffirmed the doubts we have all held about him. The AFL is no place for passive types.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Ok just read through this thread, very pleased by the excitement and more importantly acceptance to not write this kid off by you blokes, loving it.

I can't remember who it was that put me onto Caleb, but soon as i saw the highlight reel i was 100% FOR, drafting him. He is an athlete, not just his times, but his movement, his poise, counter balance, proportions, he uses it all to his advantage beautifully. His brain is his greatest asset though, so clever and fast, with real belief in himself.

Add to that his ability to hit his target, he has no flaws, and i mean that imho, NO flaws. his height is an advantage, at the state of the game right now, players are more likely to be around the 190cm mark, below or under it, Caleb is just short enough to turn that into a serious disadvantage, and his pack marking can be taken care of by the 17 others who are taller. The only 'almost' flaw i see is his tendancy to get under the ball when kicking, it has an arc like trajectory which he will need to adjust or be mindful of. the AFL is faster and those kicks can be trouble. SOmeone asked if he could kick left leg, i'm sure he can in a pinch, but i don't see it as a flaw to prefer one leg over the other, he seems to pride himself on accuracy, so that probably negates his off leg because he would rather be accurate then just get rid of it because he has to.

As to the earlier question regarding his ceiling... it is impossible to say, having been shown the AFL ropes earlier then his mates can have any effect from negative, actually lowering his cieling by forcing his development rather then natural personal progression or "enlightenment" thus stunting him, or delaying him in the long run... on the flip side raising it by giving him a headstart and thus fueling his own 'enlightenment" like a Professor being given the answer to a problem, only to have that awaken greater bounds of knowledge he hadn't even considered... or it could have no effect at all and his future is still very much in his own person mental and physical state. There are arguments for all three outcomes... time will tell... but for now, he moves, plays, thinks and creates like a 30yo veteran...

Personally i think he is a certainty to be an AFL player, and i can't help seeing repeating flashes of the future. Calab snatching the ball up, zigzaging and nailing Boyd on the lead, laces out... The Minimum and the Maximum "The MinMax" or the "Maximinimum" could well be the duo that brings us a premiership in time...

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I am in two minds about Jones, his faults were his lack of stamina despite six preseasons, we just couldn't get his fitness up no matter what, and his lack of ability to read the play, how many times did he ran under the ball.
The positives were that talls take a long time to develop, and if this is the case he might finally be coming into maturity. The other positivite is that he played alright as a second fiddle to Bazza. Still Bazza was an extraordinary team player, even giving off a goal that would have seen him win the Coleman in 2010, so how much did he sacrifice his own game to help Jones. Will Jones get that from a fairly inexperienced Carlton forward-line.
Was Jones mis-managed, he was given ample opportunity to show his worth, but often as the lone forward in a slow inexperienced side. He was sent back to the VFL to develop and if he plays well this year, then I guess that strategy worked.
In conclusion I think "Beaker" as he is called in our household, will see moderate success at Carlton, but for us having Stringer come on along with the enigmatic Grant we should have the cover in our forward line.

 

[Dazb86]

Jones held more value on our list than a few others still on it. I think he'll perform well at Carlton.

 

[Testekill]

You can't teach a player what is required between the ears.

 

[ManOfClay]

The other positivite is that he played alright as a second fiddle to Bazza.

Again, we look very rosy at Jones' efforts that year. Much like Carlton fans talking up Levi Casboult after 2014.

 

[Reptilia]

Funny old world.

For years I said Jones was a dud, and most here sharply disagreed with me.

Jones is a dud it's about time you came around

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Jones is an inconsistent player who shows something one week and then would often follow it up with a poor game the week after. Whether he succeeds or not at Carlton largely hinges upon whether he can eradicate his erratic play style, as well as whether a new environment with a new coach can have a positive influence on him.

Or is that two much of a reasonable fence-sitting statement regarding Jones?

 

[King Harold]

If we are concerned about Caleb's lack of inches, surely there are options that would add stature to the man. Here are a few for serious consideration:
View attachment 101149 View attachment 101145 View attachment 101147 View attachment 101148

Good work Dogn. Don't like helmets , but any of those I can't cope with.

 

[King Harold]

Edit : Good work Dogn. Don't like helmets , but any of those I can cope with.

 

[GreatSouthWest]

Who is sinking the boot into Caleb? - it's a disgrace!

Can't bowl, can't throw

 

[the conch]

Jones is an inconsistent player who shows something one week and then would often follow it up with a poor game the week after. Whether he succeeds or not at Carlton largely hinges upon whether he can eradicate his erratic play style, as well as whether a new environment with a new coach can have a positive influence on him.

Or is that two much of a reasonable fence-sitting statement regarding Jones?

Some better fwd structures and delivery will go a long way with Jones who was usually pitted against half the defence and the best defenders. And he holds his marks. He should have been played more and coached theough his poor games. You cant learn how ro play against the besr in the seconds.