Welcome to the Club pick 46 Western Bulldogs Caleb Daniel

[#1 Dogs Fan]

Looks like Caleb won't be the shortest player in the league after all.

ummm, He is still much shorter

 

[Highlander]

ummm, He is still much shorter

Shorter than 82cm?

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

Shorter than 82cm?

yes

 

[paul scholes]

ummm, He is still much shorter

Wonder if Clayton will try and get him again ?
He had a serious man crush on Nathan Krakouer

 

[Wizard17]

http://m.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-12-08/daniels-short-story

I really hope this kid makes it. So Libba snr has nicknamed him "Mighty Mouse"

 

[dogwatch]

http://m.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-12-08/daniels-short-story

I really hope this kid makes it. So Libba snr has nicknamed him "Mighty Mouse"

I still think Daniel could be something exciting but reading this bit ...

"Brad [Gotch] brought in an AFL game-plan and really changed a lot of things this year," Daniel said.
"Our aerobic capacity, our fitness all improved and he basically took me into an AFL system before I was even drafted into the AFL.
"Obviously being a short player, and having been in the AFL system previously, Gotchy has been able to tell me what I need to improve on, what sort of things I need to do to make it as an AFL footballer.
"I've already played against men, and played on people bigger than me. It's great to have that knowledge and experience and hopefully it holds me in good stead but I'm just going to work my hardest out here at the Bulldogs and do everything possible to push into the senior side."

... makes me wonder whether he has less upside than say an underdeveloped player like Bailey Dale. What we have seen of him - is it based on him being ahead of so many of his peers in terms of training and seniors exposure?

 

[bontshow]

... makes me wonder whether he has less upside than say an underdeveloped player like Bailey Dale. What we have seen of him - is it based on him being ahead of so many of his peers in terms of training and seniors exposure?

That's like saying someone who skipped a grade and finished school at 16 has less upside than other 16 year olds that are still going. If someone shows capacity to step up at a younger age you can expect them to have a higher ceiling

 

[dogwatch]

That's like saying someone who skipped a grade and finished school at 16 has less upside than other 16 year olds that are still going. If someone shows capacity to step up at a younger age you can expect them to have a higher ceiling

Maybe - with so little info at our disposal there are several possible interpretations. I was speculating one possibility.

Daniel had the opportunity to play seniors (with a savvy coach?) in SA. Players like Webb and Dale didn't. If they had been in the same club as Daniel in SA it's possible they too would have come to us with more fitness and experience.

And even if they didn't, Daniel might just be on an earlier physical development curve. We're excited that Dale might have lots of physical development still to come, so we need to contemplate the possibility that other recruits might be much nearer the other end of the curve and be nearer to having a mature (young) adult body.

Having said that, some of Daniel's combine results are impressive. I hope they do translate to him having a higher ceiling.

 

[bontshow]

Maybe - with so little info at our disposal there are several possible interpretations. I was speculating one possibility.

I'd be more inclined to buy your argument on Zaine Cordy than on Caleb Daniel, being a Father/Son that the club has probably been working with for years

 

[yebiga]

I still think Daniel could be something exciting but reading this bit ...

... makes me wonder whether he has less upside than say an underdeveloped player like Bailey Dale. What we have seen of him - is it based on him being ahead of so many of his peers in terms of training and seniors exposure?

Look I have been called negative of late because I can't go all kumbayah after all that happened in the off season
But this post redefines a gloomy outlook in its proper perspective - the kid is 167 cm - no one gets drafted at that height - so he makes every post a winner - comes back from injury in an interrupted season - murders the under 18 championship, plays really well against men in SANFL finals which is a higher standard than VFL. Murders the draft testing with 16.1 beep and this is perceived as a negatives?

All his performances are jaw dropping
He is the sure thing in this draft for us
His evasiveness is better then boomer Harvey's, he kicks 50 meters, he Finds targets that no one knows exist under pressure, he is tough inside, disposes the ball at over 90%efficency.
by the end of the 2015 season we will be adding him to our elite cabal: stringer, Macrae, bonti, boyd, liber and Daniels.

 

[dogwatch]

Look I have been called negative of late because I can't go all kumbayah after all that happened in the off season
But this post redefines a gloomy outlook in its proper perspective - the kid is 167 cm - no one gets drafted at that height - so he makes every post a winner - comes back from injury in an interrupted season - murders the under 18 championship, plays really well against men in SANFL finals which is a higher standard than VFL. Murders the draft testing with 16.1 beep and this is perceived as a negatives?

All his performances are jaw dropping
He is the sure thing in this draft for us
His evasiveness is better then boomer Harvey's, he kicks 50 meters, he Finds targets that no one knows exist under pressure, he is tough inside, disposes the ball at over 90%efficency.
by the end of the 2015 season we will be adding him to our elite cabal: stringer, Macrae, bonti, boyd, liber and Daniels.

Sheesh, sorry for wondering out loud.

I was just putting out an alternative hypothesis, without even being convinced about it. And I acknowledged his seriously impressive draft testing.

Sorry I bothered.

 

[dogwatch]

I'd be more inclined to buy your argument on Zaine Cordy than on Caleb Daniel, being a Father/Son that the club has probably been working with for years

Good point. If valid, this would potentially apply to all f/s picks, making it a double whammy (inflated expectations due to them being father-sons + advanced coaching and mentoring as a junior).

 

[timtamWB]

Sheesh, sorry for wondering out loud.

I was just putting out an alternative hypothesis, without even being convinced about it. And I acknowledged his seriously impressive draft testing.

Sorry I bothered.

Unfortunately, this board has dissolved into "positive" vs "negative" and lord forbid you bring a negative point of view with the intention of actually discussing it in a practical manner.

 

[yebiga]

Unfortunately, this board has dissolved into "positive" vs "negative" and lord forbid you bring a negative point of view with the intention of actually discussing it in a practical manner.

Don't start that thinly veiled reasonable approach to cover you negative opinion

 

[timtamWB]

Don't start that thinly veiled reasonable approach to cover you negative opinion

What negative opinion would that be? I haven't stated any negative opinion towards you, or in this thread. As for Dale, we've seen highlights, and that's it. I can't make any judgements on that. And I say that because I thought Fuller would be awesome for us based just on his highlights...

I was talking generally, I was just using this as an example.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Maybe - with so little info at our disposal there are several possible interpretations. I was speculating one possibility.

Daniel had the opportunity to play seniors (with a savvy coach?) in SA. Players like Webb and Dale didn't. If they had been in the same club as Daniel in SA it's possible they too would have come to us with more fitness and experience.

And even if they didn't, Daniel might just be on an earlier physical development curve. We're excited that Dale might have lots of physical development still to come, so we need to contemplate the possibility that other recruits might be much nearer the other end of the curve and be nearer to having a mature (young) adult body.

Having said that, some of Daniel's combine results are impressive. I hope they do translate to him having a higher ceiling.

It's definitely something to follow.

I'm not sure about the access to elite coaching that McLean (Oakleigh Chargers), Webb (Gippsland Power) and Dale (Dandenong Stingrays) have had, and they're all clearly physically underdeveloped, while Daniel has had the opportunity to play against developed bodies and somewhat mimic an AFL environment.

That said, I'm probably more inclined to look at the transferable skills/traits that could see each become a force at AFL level. I really rate Daniel's vision, game sense and disposal. Provided he's fit enough and played to his strengths, he could walk into the side and make an impact early in his career, without necessarily adding too many strings to his bow. I have no doubt that it'll benefit him in the short term, but whether it does in the long term, who knows.

Purely speaking in terms of upside, I agree with you. McLean, Webb and Dale were value picks, and given their physical traits and footy smarts, who knows what they could become. They're all raw, but there's plenty of physical development left in them, and plenty to teach - I especially like Beveridge's term: "building capability into their game." We should already have some idea of what Caleb will bring to the table, but it's up in the air for the rest of them, in regards to the roles the coaches have pegged for them and their respective contributions to the side in time.

*I bracketed their U/18 clubs in case anyone knows a little bit more about the development opportunities that the new kids have had access to - eg. talent managers, part-time/specialist coaches, and so on.

 

[bontshow]

Good point. If valid, this would potentially apply to all f/s picks, making it a double whammy (inflated expectations due to them being father-sons + advanced coaching and mentoring as a junior).

Plus making them better juniors, driving up their standing amongst recruiters and the draft pick we have to spend on them.

My view is that kids who have played against men, coped with elite training demands etc. are just more likely to be able to adjust to the AFL and succeed. If Daniel dealt with that this year, imagine the level he will get to at his peak - Boyd/Cross-like

 

[dogwatch]

I really rate Daniel's vision, game sense and disposal. Provided he's fit enough and played to his strengths, he could walk into the side and make an impact early in his career, without necessarily adding too many strings to his bow. I have no doubt that it'll benefit him in the short term, but whether it does in the long term, who knows.

Agree. Of all the WB draftees' highlights packages, Daniel's (from Skippos I think) was the one that impressed me most. But that's pretty much all I've got to go on in comparing them. As we've seen in the past, highlights packages can be misleading.

 

[igloo dweller]

they should have picked me...i've clearly got the most upside, i never was good enough to be picked for a rep side, so i never got that level of coaching or professionalism. all these kids that got drafted, they only got drafted because they made rep sides and played against better kids...their ceiling has to be a lot lower than mine, because they were good enough to play at higher levels....

FWIW, if you're good enough to play VFL while still playing TAC Cup, you can. stringer tore us (Willy) apart playing on ball while still in the under age comp.

 

[Mofra]

My view is that kids who have played against men, coped with elite training demands etc. are just more likely to be able to adjust to the AFL and succeed. If Daniel dealt with that this year, imagine the level he will get to at his peak - Boyd/Cross-like

Our bigger draft busts in recent years played SANFL (Howard & Fuller).
Our most exciting mids played u18s (Bonti & Macrae), with Stringer playing VFL.

I'm not sure it makes that much difference - we draft on potential far more than performance.

 

[ManOfClay]

Our bigger draft busts in recent years played SANFL (Howard).

To my knowledge Mof, Howard never played senior SANFL football. Just under 18s. He didn't even make SA's under 18s

 

[yebiga]

To my knowledge Mof, Howard never played senior SANFL football. Just under 18s. He didn't even make SA's under 18s

Howard hadn't even played football when dalrymple picked him in the first round
Real gutsy move - turned out he almost got there

 

[BEaston]

I really don't see the Mitchell and Diesel comparisons. But I definitely see the Kerr comparison. If he can develop that nuggety low center of gravity body I think he can be quite good.

Agreed. I don't see Mitchell/Diesel. Kerr is a better comparison. I see a faster Nathan Burke with a much better leg on him. But that might just be the helmet.

 

[Mofra]

To my knowledge Mof, Howard never played senior SANFL football. Just under 18s. He didn't even make SA's under 18s

Ah good call, I think you're right.

 

[stefoid]

Look I have been called negative of late because I can't go all kumbayah after all that happened in the off season
But this post redefines a gloomy outlook in its proper perspective - the kid is 167 cm - no one gets drafted at that height - so he makes every post a winner - comes back from injury in an interrupted season - murders the under 18 championship, plays really well against men in SANFL finals which is a higher standard than VFL. Murders the draft testing with 16.1 beep and this is perceived as a negatives?

All his performances are jaw dropping
He is the sure thing in this draft for us
His evasiveness is better then boomer Harvey's, he kicks 50 meters, he Finds targets that no one knows exist under pressure, he is tough inside, disposes the ball at over 90%efficency.
by the end of the 2015 season we will be adding him to our elite cabal: stringer, Macrae, bonti, boyd, liber and Daniels.

I would go as far as to say his vision and disposal is 'prudden-like'.