Opinion We're On The Right Path

[_RT_]

As it stands right now the majority on here are of the opinion that Hardwick has to go and it's an opinion that has merit. After 3 years of finals appearances and the expectation heading into this season that we'd be a finals team, possibly top 4 at seasons end and a shot at winning a flag.

5 rounds into the season the hopes of finishing top 4 are all but gone and we can forget about a flag as that isn't going to happen either. Despite being 1-4 the comments coming out of the club is that we still believe that we can make finals and have an impact and quite honestly I understand why that is being said. It's not solely because we still believe that we can make it, it's to ensure that we keep getting the crowds to turn up to games. If Hardwick and the players came out and said we've given up on the season, the fans and media would have a field day, going with an angle about how typical it is of Richmond to give up when things get tough. So until it is mathematically impossible for us to make finals I believe that we'll keep hearing that line pushed at every opportunity.

However the truth is that we are in the process of dropping back to go forwards in the future. Last year we moved on/retired off experienced types in Petterd Thomas Knights Newman & Foley as well as younger types in Arnot Dea McDonough & Gordon who just didn't come good after plenty of opportunity was afforded to them. Granted Petterd Thomas Knights Newman & Foley only played 21 games total but had they been retained and been fit this year chances are they would have been part of the 22 this year especially with the injuries that we have had to the likes of Deledio Edwards Grimes Conca Grigg Yarran & Vlastuin.

Instead of that happening we've played young draftees in Menadue C.Ellis Rioli Short & Lennon. The first 3 have played 5 & 4 games respectively, while Lennon and Short had taste and have gone back. Now it would have been nice to keep all of them in the side and pump games into them but we need to have these kids and others yet to get a game this year earning their place in the side, not just getting games given to them because they are young.

What we're doing at the moment is no different to what sides like Adelaide Bulldogs Eagles & Port have done in recent years. They put games into kids developed them for the long term future of their club. All of these clubs are coming of much more success than us in recent times so them taking a step back is a little less upsetting to their fans than us taking a step back is to us.

As for the Hardwick can't coach brigade, how does a guy who can't coach take a side that had a 27.3% winning record in his first year and become a side that won 65.2% of games in 2013 & 2015? It happens because he got the most out of the list that he had at his disposal at the time.

Unfortunately that list wasn't god enough to take us where we wanted to get to so things had to change and change they have. 2014 draft we pick up Corey Ellis Connor Menadue Nathan Drummond Daniel Butler Reece McKenzie Jayden Short Jason Castagna & Ivan Soldo who were all under 21 when drafted. Then in 2015 we go out and Daniel Rioli Oleg Markov Nathan Broad Callum Moore & Mabior Chol with only Broad being over 21. That is 12 players aged 21 or younger added to the list. So far 5 of them had been played and I fully expect a couple more to join that group in coming weeks with Castagna and Markov named emergencies this week.

So as the title of the thread says we're on the right track, it's just that to get where we want to go it's going to be a bit of short term pain to deliver longer term gain. I for one am going to enjoy being part of the journey because it'll make it all the sweeter when we get there.

 

[Tiger71]

Hope you brought lube as its going to get ugly

In saying that though. I agree with most of the above. It is not all doom and gloom but I am now convinced that Hardwick does not have the tools to take us forward. I am still filthy that he would keep injured players on the ground, hoping they will change the coarse of the game. That tells me, he knows he has no pro active way to recover during games and frankly that is not good enough.

 

[Tigerbob]

Lol one step back to go two steps forward.

You've fallen for the spin, hook line and sinker!

Before the year began we were a top 4 team stated by the coach. After losses he now states this was planned and we need to go a step back to go forward. Yet he still doesn't select kids in favour of guys like Morris....

The truth is he hasn't a clue and he shouldn't be coaching us. He's a fraud and the club is losing their soul for some business acumen. All about the bottom line and investments and women in sport, nothing about winning flags.

You've been conned like a vast amount of our fans. It's sad.

#Hardwickout

 

[Lacustrus]

Its not about Hardwick for me. Its our recruitment strategy.
We need A-grade talent and the draft positioning and trading capability of the Tigers is stuffed.

And I have to stop myself wanting to SPEW when I see Hardwick carrying on this week like a "stuffed turkey" about Deledio's return to the team.
Three years in a row, our "best player's" injury concerns compromises our start to the season. This year is terminal.

Does anyone really think its going to get better for him next year?
The only solution is bringing in better players, and our current recruitment method is not up to it.


I don't buy excuses that we are missing the experienced "Petterd Thomas Knights Newman & Foley as well as younger types in Arnot Dea McDonough & Gordon".

Jesus, take the wheel!

 

[Keilor Tiger]

I also agree with most of what you've said and do believe that Dimma is the person to take us forward. I'm also a realist and think we need to improve in areas such as development of younger players and recruitment of more A grade talent. I think this a club rather than Dimma matter.
Dimma needs to work with his assistants to improve forward structures - (I think we're terrible going into 50 a bit like Bulldogs last night). Also focus on what players can do rather than what they can't. Cellis was recruited as a midfielder and Lennon as a talented half forward. Play these guys in these positions rather than defenders.
And as a cub we need to be more aggressive and imaginative at trade time. Griff is a big strong player who kicks it a mile. But he's built with tissue paper. Work him into a trade where we can get L.Neale or Witts without giving up draft picks.
Our list is has a good structure in the right age group. Stability is important off field - just get bolder on it.

 

[Groupie_]

Didnt you want Hardwick sacked in 2014 903RT ?

 

[Spagman]

It's not about 'not having a clue'. Nobody can predict how well any young player will develop.

Conca has been injury ridden. Basically time to get him fit and trade him for whatever he's worth.
Griffiths needs to be at CHB and work on his toughness. This is the clubs fault.
Vlaustin needs to be played where he's best suited - not to fit into a game plan. His lack of advancement is the clubs fault.

I'm sure other more qualified people could pick the list apart better than I can but it seems to be so many players, week in week out are playing out of position due to the recent departure of, what were, key players and injured players.

Dimma can coach, he's turned this club around on field. Up until round 1 this year that is.

 

[_RT_]

Lol one step back to go two steps forward.

You've fallen for the spin, hook line and sinker!

Before the year began we were a top 4 team stated by the coach. After losses he now states this was planned and we need to go a step back to go forward. Yet he still doesn't select kids in favour of guys like Morris....

The truth is he hasn't a clue and he shouldn't be coaching us. He's a fraud and the club is losing their soul for some business acumen. All about the bottom line and investments and women in sport, nothing about winning flags.

You've been conned like a vast amount of our fans. It's sad.

#Hardwickout

On the contrary I'd suggest that yourself and a number of others may have been conned. Last year you were one of the most vocal Hardwick out posters, yet you say we were a top 4 side heading into this season.

Truth be told I never considered us top 4 this year when our off season additions were Yarran Moore and Townsend plus half a dozen kids. I had hopes for another finals campaign maybe a win or 2 as well , while we blooded a handful of kids.

Unfortunately early injuries have meant those kids got brought in all at once to start the season instead of 2 here and there as the season progressed. So now we find ourselves in the shit once again. The issue for me now is how Hardwick addresses the remainder of the year. Keep pumping games into Rioli C.Ellis Menadue Lennon Short and add games for Castagna Markov McBean Elton Butler and co should they deserve them and we will reap the benefits down the track. Stick with guys like Morris Hunt Chaplin & Batchelor and we will continue to go backwards.

 

[BF Tiger]

Our current situation is divided between those who want Hardwick to stay and those who want him gone, but boiled down all that we all want is the best for the club.

 

[_RT_]

Didnt you want Hardwick sacked in 2014 903RT ?

Yes I did but he earned redemption by getting us back up and running and back in the finals. Unfortunately we failed in the finals again and changes have been made to address that, we just haven't had the chance to see those changes in action because we're not at full strength.

 

[tunksy]

Id keep hardwick for now as i dont think there is a better option currently and i think he deserves the shot to blood more youth and get back to improving next year and hopefully second half of this year.

Id be looking long and hard at assistant coaches, development coaches and recruiters and moving them on and finding better. They havent found enough talent to take us to the next step while hardwivk in my opinion has done very well getting what he has out of us. Its was down to the players to get a finals win imo.

 

[Tigerbob]

On the contrary I'd suggest that yourself and a number of others may have been conned. Last year you were one of the most vocal Hardwick out posters, yet you say we were a top 4 side heading into this season.

Truth be told I never considered us top 4 this year when our off season additions were Yarran Moore and Townsend plus half a dozen kids. I had hopes for another finals campaign maybe a win or 2 as well , while we blooded a handful of kids.

Unfortunately early injuries have meant those kids got brought in all at once to start the season instead of 2 here and there as the season progressed. So now we find ourselves in the shit once again. The issue for me now is how Hardwick addresses the remainder of the year. Keep pumping games into Rioli C.Ellis Menadue Lennon Short and add games for Castagna Markov McBean Elton Butler and co should they deserve them and we will reap the benefits down the track. Stick with guys like Morris Hunt Chaplin & Batchelor and we will continue to go backwards.

Where have I said we are a top 4 side? How have I been conned when my opinion hasn't changed in 3 years mate but yours changes on a fortnightly basis?

If you didn't believe we were top 4 then you were different from Hardwick and the club at the start of January. Now as they back track you buy into their communication.

 

[Groupie_]

Yes I did but he earned redemption by getting us back up and running and back in the finals. Unfortunately we failed in the finals again and changes have been made to address that, we just haven't had the chance to see those changes in action because we're not at full strength.

what were the changes

 

[Lacustrus]

Conca has been injury ridden. Basically time to get him fit and trade him for whatever he's worth.

Oh, and I'm so glad we overlooked Prestia, Heppell and Tom Lynch at pick 6 to pull this injury prone hack from obscurity!
FJ has less clue than my pet cockatiel in picking players ffs!

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...crack-a-century-of-goals-20160428-goh78w.html

 

[Tigerland]

As it stands right now the majority on here are of the opinion that Hardwick has to go and it's an opinion that has merit. After 3 years of finals appearances and the expectation heading into this season that we'd be a finals team, possibly top 4 at seasons end and a shot at winning a flag.

5 rounds into the season the hopes of finishing top 4 are all but gone and we can forget about a flag as that isn't going to happen either. Despite being 1-4 the comments coming out of the club is that we still believe that we can make finals and have an impact and quite honestly I understand why that is being said. It's not solely because we still believe that we can make it, it's to ensure that we keep getting the crowds to turn up to games. If Hardwick and the players came out and said we've given up on the season, the fans and media would have a field day, going with an angle about how typical it is of Richmond to give up when things get tough. So until it is mathematically impossible for us to make finals I believe that we'll keep hearing that line pushed at every opportunity.

However the truth is that we are in the process of dropping back to go forwards in the future. Last year we moved on/retired off experienced types in Petterd Thomas Knights Newman & Foley as well as younger types in Arnot Dea McDonough & Gordon who just didn't come good after plenty of opportunity was afforded to them. Granted Petterd Thomas Knights Newman & Foley only played 21 games total but had they been retained and been fit this year chances are they would have been part of the 22 this year especially with the injuries that we have had to the likes of Deledio Edwards Grimes Conca Grigg Yarran & Vlastuin.

Instead of that happening we've played young draftees in Menadue C.Ellis Rioli Short & Lennon. The first 3 have played 5 & 4 games respectively, while Lennon and Short had taste and have gone back. Now it would have been nice to keep all of them in the side and pump games into them but we need to have these kids and others yet to get a game this year earning their place in the side, not just getting games given to them because they are young.

What we're doing at the moment is no different to what sides like Adelaide Bulldogs Eagles & Port have done in recent years. They put games into kids developed them for the long term future of their club. All of these clubs are coming of much more success than us in recent times so them taking a step back is a little less upsetting to their fans than us taking a step back is to us.

As for the Hardwick can't coach brigade, how does a guy who can't coach take a side that had a 27.3% winning record in his first year and become a side that won 65.2% of games in 2013 & 2015? It happens because he got the most out of the list that he had at his disposal at the time.

Unfortunately that list wasn't god enough to take us where we wanted to get to so things had to change and change they have. 2014 draft we pick up Corey Ellis Connor Menadue Nathan Drummond Daniel Butler Reece McKenzie Jayden Short Jason Castagna & Ivan Soldo who were all under 21 when drafted. Then in 2015 we go out and Daniel Rioli Oleg Markov Nathan Broad Callum Moore & Mabior Chol with only Broad being over 21. That is 12 players aged 21 or younger added to the list. So far 5 of them had been played and I fully expect a couple more to join that group in coming weeks with Castagna and Markov named emergencies this week.

So as the title of the thread says we're on the right track, it's just that to get where we want to go it's going to be a bit of short term pain to deliver longer term gain. I for one am going to enjoy being part of the journey because it'll make it all the sweeter when we get there.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

You point to Dimma's winning percentage record... Well his finals record is 0-3. 0%.

If what you suggest is true then why would Dimma go back to spuds like Chaplin and Morris over and over instead of trying an Elton, or Drummond or Castagna. He continues to back complete shizen players like Hunt.

Hunt and Morris are both contracted next year. Of course Dimma would have said "required players" in that decision. That in itself is incredibly scary.

Then you look at the drafting of Yarran. 2 x 2nd round picks given up there and 1 of them is in the upcoming very strong draft.
You don't do trades like that if your plan was to take a few steps back.

It all points to them just making it up as they go along.

 

[_RT_]

Where have I said we are a top 4 side? How have I been conned when my opinion hasn't changed in 3 years mate but yours changes on a fortnightly basis?

You said in the reply we were a top 4 side heading into the season. If you didn't see it that way outside Hardwick still being coach I'm not sure why you're upset with our current standing.

If you didn't believe we were top 4 then you were different from Hardwick and the club at the start of January. Now as they back track you buy into their communication.

Not buying into anything, I said before Hardwick mentioned half step backwards that we were seeing a rejigging of the side with the kids being played over the likes of having all of Morris Hunt Batchelor Chaplin in the side. As I mentioned the injuries to a handful of better players has seen us drop further than we should have but that can work in our favour if we persist with the kids instead of going back to the well with those who've taken us as far as they can.

 

[Tigerbob]

You're not making any sense mate.

I said the club in January stated they were a top 4 side. Why the **** would I say it when I have been consistently against Hardwick for 3 seasons.

Your "argument" has been debunked above by posters. This ain't a good thread at all.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Hardwick won't win us a flag. Looks like the spin doctors at Punt Rd are doing a great job though.

 

[Tigerbob]

Hardwick won't win us a flag. Looks like the spin doctors at Punt Rd are doing a great job though.

Exactly. So many falling for it.

Whilst we have 70k members they don't care what occurs.

Just keep spinning and the masses will eat it all up.

 

[Ciderhound]

Lol one step back to go two steps forward.

You've fallen for the spin, hook line and sinker!

Before the year began we were a top 4 team stated by the coach. After losses he now states this was planned and we need to go a step back to go forward. Yet he still doesn't select kids in favour of guys like Morris....

The truth is he hasn't a clue and he shouldn't be coaching us. He's a fraud and the club is losing their soul for some business acumen. All about the bottom line and investments and women in sport, nothing about winning flags.

You've been conned like a vast amount of our fans. It's sad.

#Hardwickout

Bingo. We have become the Arsenal of the AFL where the board only care about profits instead of premierships.

Time for a change.

 

[Bobsleder]

Dimma has had his opportunity and did a great job to get us to where he did. I'd give him to half year to see if we can turn it around, if he does, I'd still prefer he move on by years end as its time to freshen the place up with some new ideas.

The last two drafts have been fruitful and it looks like a good group will come through. But we need mids, mids, KPD and a mature age ruck (easiest fix). On that basis the Lennon pick was a shocker (note Cripps went next), even Roili to a degree (as we already had Short, butler and Lloyd). I like Menadue and he will be a ten year player, but Connor Blakely went next pick and he is what we needed. I know hindsight is wonderful re talking drafts, but we haven't addressed the engine room enough with early picks. Surely that's Dimma's role (& Dan Richardson) to say our recruiters get us more quality mids.
Finally missing out on Treloar was huge, as he is exactly what we needed in there.
I don't think it's all bad ( as much as it is f'ing frustrating) and things can turn quickly, whether it's this year or next.

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

Good thread.

Seems like we tried to have our cake and eat it too - finish Top 4 whilst blooding kids on the run a la Hawthorn and Sydney

only issue is our depth isnt at their level and when the injuries mounted we were playing more kids than we would have wanted to at any one point. Additionally, as kids tend to drift in and out of games a bit it can and has lead to more issues where "senior" players don't spot or choose to go to the kid who's free in space and prefer to go for the riskier opportunity with a mature target as the kids are still an unknown commodity by and large

If we keep playing the same kids, then in the 2nd half of the year we are going to look a totally different team, Dimma's big failing here is the comments on Top 4 (obviously its what we want to hear, but may not be the reality of what we realise) and not adapting to the new lets call it evolution of the game. I personally reckon that it'll be a tale of 2 halves of the year but that's something else entirely; We just need a few of our senior players all in the team together to help stiffen the kids through the spine and pick up their confidence


And before i get called a dreamer, i still think there's alot of other issues we need to fix but the Senior Coach is not the most pressing; don't get me wrong he needs to fix these issues on-field and FAST but there's bigger fish to fry than him

 

[smurfin]

I can get what is being said. A perspective I haven't thought of before.
Remember when our rookie list in particular was full of mature-aged spuds for depth?
Lonergan, Pettard, Thomas, Hunt, Morris, Aaron Edwards, Adam Maric along with eternally-injured or past-their-best Knights, Foley, Newman. Mostly spuds, but played their role in keeping a decent youth-experience balance when injuries hit.
We have basically reduced this list to Hunt, Morris & AMoore. Or you can argue about where to draw the line with Townsend, Grigg, Batchelor, Lambert etc being considered in case of emergency depth or not.
Ideally, I wouldn't be playing both CEllis & Menadue at the same time along with Riloi/Short & Lennon/McBean. You want these young players to take turns at a block of AFL games when their VFL form is up. Then they can take the AFL game on, make a few inexperienced mistakes, hang their heads for a moment, be told to keep their chins up by the experienced team-mates and keep having a go & not be scared of ****ing up.
We are covering our injuries with a mixture of experienced spud & inexperienced kids but leaning towards the kids more.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

TLDR

Should've just said Deledio is back so it's 20-0 time

 

[tigerdan]

You are going to cop a lot of heat on this thread because the haters have traction because we lost a few games.

When we win some they will disappear for months on end - just like last year - because it completely blew up in their faces.

Right now the haters feel vindicated but few have any class about it. I guess it's the nature of anonymity and the internet.

I'm not happy where we are at but sacking is an old game that doesn't have the runs on the board.