Opinion We're On The Right Path

[TiggerMan22]

what were the changes

Playing the kids

 

[Groupie_]

Playing the kids

they only did that once we copped injuries

if we had no injuries im confident wed be lik 4-1 right now

 

[TiggerMan22]

they only did that once we copped injuries

if we had no injuries im confident wed be lik 4-1 right now

Wroooong. They only played players like Hunt and Morris because we copped injuries.
The kids were always going to play. Thats why players like Chaplin who started out even though he played every game for 3 seasons

 

[Groupie_]

Wroooong. They only played players like Hunt and Morris because we copped injuries.
The kids were always going to play.

dude, Menadue and Cellis were best 22 before the injuires happened

they gifted rioli a game , big whoop

its not like the 2 i mentioned were not best 22 before the season started and we were playing em just to get games into em ...

 

[_RT_]

what were the changes

We recruited Yarran for more drive out of D50, we moved Conca down back to provide accountability, rebound and ball winning ability, we brought Astbury back into the side to replace the aging Chaplin, we brought in role players in Moore & Townsend to give us that bigger bodied presence around the packs. As I mentioned injury has cost us the ability to put these changes into practice as we'd like to have done. Conca Yarran Deledio haven't played as yet which means kids have been asked to fill their roles until they get back and as promising as they are they just aren't good enough to do the same job.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

You point to Dimma's winning percentage record... Well his finals record is 0-3. 0%.

If what you suggest is true then why would Dimma go back to spuds like Chaplin and Morris over and over instead of trying an Elton, or Drummond or Castagna. He continues to back complete shizen players like Hunt.

Hunt and Morris are both contracted next year. Of course Dimma would have said "required players" in that decision. That in itself is incredibly scary.

Then you look at the drafting of Yarran. 2 x 2nd round picks given up there and 1 of them is in the upcoming very strong draft.
You don't do trades like that if your plan was to take a few steps back.

It all points to them just making it up as they go along.

Going by the logic that Hardwick hasn't won a final makes him a poor coach I guess we can label Ross Lyon 0 flags from 4 Grand Finals, Mathouse 3 flags from 8 Grand Finals, Jeans 4 flags from 9 Grand Finals, Hafey 4 from 10 and Blight 2 from 5 poor coaches too.

As for not picking Elton Drummond Castagna over Chaplin Hunt & Morris. Well Drummond has yet to return from the knee he ruined in his debut last year, still 2 weeks away. Elton like McBean hasn't played well enough at VFL level to deserve being picked and Castagna was close to being selected this week having put together 3 weeks of good footy at VFL level.

As for Hunt and Morris being 'required players' Morris was given an extension back when he was among the best small defenders in the comp, then we moved him away from playing that role and he hasn't been the same since. Hunt played 23 games last year as a role player and earned the second year in his original contract. Both would be nothing more than VFL players this year without injuries removing the likes of Yarran Conca & Vlastuin from the back 6. Fully expect that when they get back in the side we won't see the likes of Hunt & Morris again unless injury hits again.

As for trading for Yarran, once again in the last 2 drafts we added 12 players aged under 21, we could spend a couple of second round picks to bring in a difference maker, although it's hard to make much difference sitting up in the stands.

You're not making any sense mate.

I said the club in January stated they were a top 4 side. Why the **** would I say it when I have been consistently against Hardwick for 3 seasons.

Your "argument" has been debunked above by posters. This ain't a good thread at all.

I know you've been against Hardwick for 3 seasons and you don't believe that we're top 4 quality yet last season, with a guy you say can't coach in charge we finished half a game from the top 4. So naturally the club is going to talk about being top 4 heading into this season. Imagine if Hardwick and co came out in January and said we expect to miss finals and take a step backwards as we rejig the side. Do you think we'd get near the 70-75k members we would have budgeted for. Imagine losing 15-20k members from the bottom line, how do you think that would have impacted the footy department budget, as the lost money would have had to come from somewhere. So we see them sell the message that we're hoping to be top 4 and the plan heading into the season no doubt, would have been to make finals again while also bringing through a few younger kids as I explained in the opening post, as form warranted them being selected.

However come March we lose a few best 22 types to longer term injuries which throws the best laid plans out the window. Now Hardwick could have gone one of two ways. He picks similar sides to the ones that got us into finals last year with the likes of Hunt Chaplin & Batchelor retaining their roles, playing both Moore and Townsend every week and leaving C.Ellis Menadue Rioli Short Lennon to play at VFL level or he could play those kids and fast track their development, albeit Lennon and Short are back in the VFL again. At the moment he has gone with the kids here's hoping it continues.

 

[Sol23]

Hate when ppl bring up conca.... He's always injured and when he isn't he stinks it up in games anyway! He's average at best

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

Hate when ppl bring up conca.... He's always injured and when he isn't he stinks it up in games anyway! He's average at best

yet Norf talk up Wells
Lollingwood talk up Reid
and Geelong talk up whatshisface with 4 knee recos or something

There's always clubs with players that have all the talent in the world but just can't seem to get back from injury

 

[Craze]

Yeh nah. We're not even on a path, let alone on the right one. St Kilda today showing just how terrible we are.

Sick of this line 'Dimma has taken us to three finals series in a row' blah blah blah. The league gives shit sides (like we were from 2002 - 2012) top draft picks in order to equalise the competition. The fact of the matter is that with the access to top picks we had, a trained monkey could have coached us into finals.

What we're seeing now is that competently run clubs are sling-shotting past us up the ladder even though we were miles better than them just 24 months ago - St Kilda, Bulldogs, Adelaide, etc. Wait for Carlton and Essendon to do likewise in 12 months time. Mark my words, I'm old enough to have seen it all before.

We're poor on match day. We don't have strong leaders. We don't have a ruckman (still). We can't attract talent into the club. We can't develop our own talent. The VFL team and re-development of PRO have not made a rats-arse of difference in spite of the promises of the club. We play blokes out of position. We play blokes who are injured. We drop blokes who play well. We promote blokes into the first who are duds. Apart from that, yeh things are really going well OP.

 

[Rfc2016]

Just doesn't make sense to me.

You point to Dimma's winning percentage record... Well his finals record is 0-3. 0%.

If what you suggest is true then why would Dimma go back to spuds like Chaplin and Morris over and over instead of trying an Elton, or Drummond or Castagna. He continues to back complete shizen players like Hunt.

Hunt and Morris are both contracted next year. Of course Dimma would have said "required players" in that decision. That in itself is incredibly scary.

Then you look at the drafting of Yarran. 2 x 2nd round picks given up there and 1 of them is in the upcoming very strong draft.
You don't do trades like that if your plan was to take a few steps back.

It all points to them just making it up as they go along.

Surely more due diligence could have been done with Yarran. If they knew he had foot issues, which they said they did, let him sit out 2016 and get him next year for nothing.
Put a bit of work into Suckling, instead, and get him as a free agent, for nothing.
Keep two second round draft picks and, maybe, pick up a couple of decent kids. Delist Hunt and Morris to make room for them.
Poor recruiting. Poor list management. Poor player development. These are the things holding us back, not Hardwick!

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

Surely more due diligence could have been done with Yarran. If they knew he had foot issues, which they said they did, let him sit out 2016 and get him next year for nothing.
Put a bit of work into Suckling, instead, and get him as a free agent, for nothing.
Keep two second round draft picks and, maybe, pick up a couple of decent kids. Delist Hunt and Morris to make room for them.
Poor recruiting. Poor list management. Poor player development. These are the things holding us back, not Hardwick!

whats to say that Carlton would have put him into surgery though? stands to reason if they knew he was going to leave to just go nah do your rehab mate and we'd still be missing him just a year later and potentially when we'll need him more

 

[Equus]

Good. I'll book my September holiday right now.

 

[Rfc2016]

whats to say that Carlton would have put him into surgery though? stands to reason if they knew he was going to leave to just go nah do your rehab mate and we'd still be missing him just a year later and potentially when we'll need him more

I hear what you're saying, but if an agreement between us and Yarran was there, he could get it done himself, a la Treloar's groin.

 

[BF Tiger]

You are going to cop a lot of heat on this thread because the haters have traction because we lost a few games.

When we win some they will disappear for months on end - just like last year - because it completely blew up in their faces.

Right now the haters feel vindicated but few have any class about it. I guess it's the nature of anonymity and the internet.

I'm not happy where we are at but sacking is an old game that doesn't have the runs on the board.

I wouldn't say it blew up in our faces Dan, not once the EF came around.

And hate is a strong word. I think it's just real belief that DH has taken us as far as he can. This is then compounded by the fact that we needlessly extended his contract, and for two years. That said I'd happily wear egg on my face for DH to take us to a flag, but it has to be some time soon for that egg to stick. If it's 2019 when it happens, new recruiters and assistants have come on-board and we've landed a big fish or two with our fabled war-chest... then we're allowed to change our opinion, which is based on what we are seeing now.

That said, in no way am I thinking that to sack DH mid-season is the right move.

 

[Tigerland]

Surely more due diligence could have been done with Yarran. If they knew he had foot issues, which they said they did, let him sit out 2016 and get him next year for nothing.
Put a bit of work into Suckling, instead, and get him as a free agent, for nothing.
Keep two second round draft picks and, maybe, pick up a couple of decent kids. Delist Hunt and Morris to make room for them.
Poor recruiting. Poor list management. Poor player development. These are the things holding us back, not Hardwick!

Could be a bit of both.
It's hard to know without be an insider but the assistants hardly fill me with faith - and even that comes back to Hardwick, he'd have to rubber stamp them. As far as I'm aware none of the assistants are in their first year. That is alarming.

He's not ruthless and that is what we need.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Good thread.

Seems like we tried to have our cake and eat it too - finish Top 4 whilst blooding kids on the run a la Hawthorn and Sydney

only issue is our depth isnt at their level and when the injuries mounted we were playing more kids than we would have wanted to at any one point. Additionally, as kids tend to drift in and out of games a bit it can and has lead to more issues where "senior" players don't spot or choose to go to the kid who's free in space and prefer to go for the riskier opportunity with a mature target as the kids are still an unknown commodity by and large

If we keep playing the same kids, then in the 2nd half of the year we are going to look a totally different team, Dimma's big failing here is the comments on Top 4 (obviously its what we want to hear, but may not be the reality of what we realise) and not adapting to the new lets call it evolution of the game. I personally reckon that it'll be a tale of 2 halves of the year but that's something else entirely; We just need a few of our senior players all in the team together to help stiffen the kids through the spine and pick up their confidence


And before i get called a dreamer, i still think there's alot of other issues we need to fix but the Senior Coach is not the most pressing; don't get me wrong he needs to fix these issues on-field and FAST but there's bigger fish to fry than him

This...

 

[Ciderhound]

Good. I'll book my September holiday right now.

X 2. Flights to the states are heap as chips at the moment.

 

[_RT_]

Have at it folks, I'm grabbing my ankles as we speak because plenty are going to go in dry the next few days weeks months.

 

[Tigerbob]

Close thread/

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

As it stands right now the majority on here are of the opinion that Hardwick has to go and it's an opinion that has merit. After 3 years of finals appearances and the expectation heading into this season that we'd be a finals team, possibly top 4 at seasons end and a shot at winning a flag.

5 rounds into the season the hopes of finishing top 4 are all but gone and we can forget about a flag as that isn't going to happen either. Despite being 1-4 the comments coming out of the club is that we still believe that we can make finals and have an impact and quite honestly I understand why that is being said. It's not solely because we still believe that we can make it, it's to ensure that we keep getting the crowds to turn up to games. If Hardwick and the players came out and said we've given up on the season, the fans and media would have a field day, going with an angle about how typical it is of Richmond to give up when things get tough. So until it is mathematically impossible for us to make finals I believe that we'll keep hearing that line pushed at every opportunity.

However the truth is that we are in the process of dropping back to go forwards in the future. Last year we moved on/retired off experienced types in Petterd Thomas Knights Newman & Foley as well as younger types in Arnot Dea McDonough & Gordon who just didn't come good after plenty of opportunity was afforded to them. Granted Petterd Thomas Knights Newman & Foley only played 21 games total but had they been retained and been fit this year chances are they would have been part of the 22 this year especially with the injuries that we have had to the likes of Deledio Edwards Grimes Conca Grigg Yarran & Vlastuin.

Instead of that happening we've played young draftees in Menadue C.Ellis Rioli Short & Lennon. The first 3 have played 5 & 4 games respectively, while Lennon and Short had taste and have gone back. Now it would have been nice to keep all of them in the side and pump games into them but we need to have these kids and others yet to get a game this year earning their place in the side, not just getting games given to them because they are young.

What we're doing at the moment is no different to what sides like Adelaide Bulldogs Eagles & Port have done in recent years. They put games into kids developed them for the long term future of their club. All of these clubs are coming of much more success than us in recent times so them taking a step back is a little less upsetting to their fans than us taking a step back is to us.

As for the Hardwick can't coach brigade, how does a guy who can't coach take a side that had a 27.3% winning record in his first year and become a side that won 65.2% of games in 2013 & 2015? It happens because he got the most out of the list that he had at his disposal at the time.

Unfortunately that list wasn't god enough to take us where we wanted to get to so things had to change and change they have. 2014 draft we pick up Corey Ellis Connor Menadue Nathan Drummond Daniel Butler Reece McKenzie Jayden Short Jason Castagna & Ivan Soldo who were all under 21 when drafted. Then in 2015 we go out and Daniel Rioli Oleg Markov Nathan Broad Callum Moore & Mabior Chol with only Broad being over 21. That is 12 players aged 21 or younger added to the list. So far 5 of them had been played and I fully expect a couple more to join that group in coming weeks with Castagna and Markov named emergencies this week.

So as the title of the thread says we're on the right track, it's just that to get where we want to go it's going to be a bit of short term pain to deliver longer term gain. I for one am going to enjoy being part of the journey because it'll make it all the sweeter when we get there.

Dimma get off big footy and get back to the coaches box... Actually scratch that... **** off

 

[Gentlemen]

Have at it folks, I'm grabbing my ankles as we speak because plenty are going to go in dry the next few days weeks months.

Don't worry my man, people will pick on you for actually putting your opinion out there and therefore making yourself a target

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Have at it folks, I'm grabbing my ankles as we speak because plenty are going to go in dry the next few days weeks months.

Do you stand by your thoughts though? This club is in dire straights mate....

 

[Damo80]

What we're seeing now is that competently run clubs are sling-shotting past us up the ladder even though we were miles better than them just 24 months ago - St Kilda, Bulldogs, Adelaide, etc. Wait for Carlton and Essendon to do likewise in 12 months time. Mark my words, I'm old enough to have seen it all before.

We're poor on match day. We don't have strong leaders. We don't have a ruckman (still). We can't attract talent into the club. We can't develop our own talent.

Thanks for saving me the need to write a reply. I think you covered it all perfectly (although you missed Melbourne... even Brisbane are probably further advanced than we are on current form, and certainly into the future their young talent is far better than ours).

The simple question is whether Dimma gets the privilege of overseeing another rebuild. Cos that's where we're now at. I'm firmly of the view than any given coach should only ever get to see through one rebuild, so he has to go.

None of it matters anyway... GWS will win 12 of the next 10 premierships. The talent on that list is incredible, and the monster is starting to stir!

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

 

[_Wang_]

Good thread this, we are developing into a steaming pile of dog shit..

Can't sugar cost this RT

#eco

 

[RichoRocks2006]

Mate I love your optimism. I have been there. Enjoy the charade while it lasts. Hardwick is a pretender.

 

[aussiebob14]

The only way we'll be on the right path is if we delist all of the second hand duds and also bring in some new assistant coaches and some really good development coaches. Our development has been really really poor.