Strategy What are we going to do about centre half forward?

[catempire]

What are *we* (the BigFooty community) going to do about CHF? Probably whinge all season, I'd say.

But seriously, looks like the same structure for at least the next few weeks to me. That is, no one player taking ownership of the role but at times we will have Hawkins, Brown, Bartel, McIntosh, Blicavs and maybe even Harry there. Walker, and you'd hope Kersten, will also get a chance at some point. Because we have no player who can actually play the role competently for a full game, we are left with no other choice but to pinch hit several different players.

 

[you pick one]

One more game from Brown next week like his last two and his prospects of playing AFL for anyone next year will be shot,should never have been asked to play CHF we have done him no favors as far as his future goes.I've ruled him out.
Walker is still in with a chance,most here against him seem to question his kicking,but Brown hasn't exactly been a dead eye dick with his last 3 shots on goal missing the target,their goal kicking AFL average would be about the same.
My preference at the moment would be to go with out either of them,and keep playing McIntosh, Simpson and Blitz,rotating them through the two key positions and keep getting games into Murdoch as the much needed mid sized forward,the odd opportunity for Walker will still open up in a long season, there is no gifted games at my selection table. We have with out doubt the most professional VFL structure in the league let it do its work I say.

 

[Claude Balls]

You can't have a go at those who don't think Brown is good enough and then write a paragraph stating Brown is not good enough.

There's a big difference between saying you have doubts and saying he's a useless spud and will never be more than a spud.

 

[MotlopMagic]

We currently have two viable options, IMO.

1. Mitch Brown
2. Harry Taylor

I'd expect Harry to kick 30(ish) more goals than Brown for the rest of the regular season. He'd also create more chances for others. The net result would be significantly worse without his presence in the backline though. Therefore, we stick with Brown.

 

[Partridge]

We currently have two viable options, IMO.

1. Mitch Brown
2. Harry Taylor

I'd expect Harry to kick 30(ish) more goals than Brown for the rest of the regular season. He'd also create more chances for others. The net result would be significantly worse without his presence in the backline though. Therefore, we stick with Brown.

Neither are likely to kick 30 goals this season though.

It would appear that the club is committed to playing Brown there. At least one way or another we and they will find out. We won't find out if we play a different player there every week.

 

[Partridge]

Cats are playing at Casey fields next week.
Might take the family over.

I know you live over there. If we go, lets have a beer and watch him.

It's only up the road from me. I'll definitely be heading there.

Be interesting to see who's going to be coming through in the next few years.

 

[vinum coupe]

What are *we* (the BigFooty community) going to do about CHF? Probably whinge all season, I'd say.

But seriously, looks like the same structure for at least the next few weeks to me. That is, no one player taking ownership of the role but at times we will have Hawkins, Brown, Bartel, McIntosh, Blicavs and maybe even Harry there. Walker, and you'd hope Kersten, will also get a chance at some point. Because we have no player who can actually play the role competently for a full game, we are left with no other choice but to pinch hit several different players.

Liked it.
But don't like it.

We've got 20 weeks to find an answer.
Well... the MC do.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

They have to stick with brown at the moment.

 

[vinum coupe]

It's only up the road from me. I'll definitely be heading there.

Be interesting to see who's going to be coming through in the next few years.

I'll give you a shout if we go.
Expect we will. Kids aren't happy about missing Bendigo.

 

[MotlopMagic]

Neither are likely to kick 30 goals this season though.

It would appear that the club is committed to playing Brown there. At least one way or another we and they will find out. We won't find out if we play a different player there every week.

I'm confident Brown will kick 30 and I'm glad the club is committed to playing him. There will be times when we question his position in the side but we need to stand by him.

 

[manboob]

I think Bartel is the solution, however, for some reason they decided not to play his as much up forward last night.

 

[catempire]

Liked it.
But don't like it.

We've got 20 weeks to find an answer.
Well... the MC do.

Sometimes, you know there's a problem but you don't have the tools, cattle, etc, for the solution. I think that's the situation we've got here. Our next great CHF isn't currently on our list IMO. Everyone between now and that guy is making do. Doesn't mean despair but it does make winning the flag that bit harder.

 

[Corio cat]

Rivers played chf at times at dees, strong will compete and may provide more than what he does in defense where he can get exposed in some match ups. Brown could then play 3rd tall in defense or attack. As has been mentioned before Brown is not physical enough, nor a good enough contested mark to plat CHF at this level.....is suited to the 3rd tall roles though

 

[caitsith01]

We currently have two viable options, IMO.

1. Mitch Brown
2. Harry Taylor

Not a viable option if you want us to stop the other side from kicking a lot of goals, especially with Enright getting on and Rivers seeming a tad injury prone.

 

[MotlopMagic]

Not a viable option if you want us to stop the other side from kicking a lot of goals, especially with Enright getting on and Rivers seeming a tad injury prone.

Did you read the rest of my post?

 

[vinum coupe]

Sometimes, you know there's a problem but you don't have the tools, cattle, etc, for the solution. I think that's the situation we've got here. Our next great CHF isn't currently on our list IMO. Everyone between now and that guy is making do. Doesn't mean despair but it does make winning the flag that bit harder.

I like that post even less. lol

 

[strauchnyy]

This is a good thread. It is an obvious problem for us at the moment, and will be during the finals.

I put a line through walker and brown.

Both are just not up to it, I don't need to address why in this thread. BUT... I would keep brown in the team at CHF until kersten is fit, purely for 1 last chance and to prove me (and all and sundry wrong).

I would also leave Taylor in defence. H is our backline general and must be left there, apart from 10 min stints up forward here and there.

I nominate kersten and blicavs to both share the 'mobile hard running leading up the ground' CHF roles.

I would have our forward line to work as follows:

CHF: kersten. Blicavs.

Blicavs to play the N Riewoldt style of constant leading up the ground. There won't be a defender in the game who will keep up.

As for Kersten, this is the game he plays anyway. Perhaps stay a bit closer to goal.

HFF. Bartel. Motlop

Dangerous flankers delivering into the 50.

FP. Murdoch

For the main purpose of applying pressure and locking it in the fwd 50. Others who can have stints in this role include McCarthy, burbury and varcoe.

FF. Hawkins

With hmac resting here from time to time.

I believe that the above would work as each player has a defined role within the forward line, which may cover the loss of an actual seasoned CHF.

 

[dazbroncos]

strange thread vinum as you have been a staunch supporter of Mitch's all summer long and have been quick to suddenly to turn on him after a couple of average performances.

We do nothing and persist with him. This is what everyone had to expect was going to happen with both our two highly touted key forwards cut down by injury.
We have Walker and Brown, I've never believed Mitch's strength would be good enough to see him hold his own at senior level but I was very impressed with what I saw in the second half against Adelaide rd1. Whether that game was slightly overrated due to Adelaide's current ladder position or not is hard to tell.

The luxury of this current CHF dilemma is the team is 3-0. We can afford to trial a few blokes at the moment but it certainly won't be for too much longer so Brown will get ample time to show us if he has what it takes or not and fingers crossed, we start to see improvement.

I didn't read it as a bagging or loss of support thread. I saw it as at the moment in game 13 Mitch didn't have a good one but him aside who is the best option at CHF going forward structurally.

I think the idea of slipping HT forward any time other than by chance is counter intuitive in that with the back 1/3 well settled ( although the smalls still hurt us) the downside is too great to be making big structural changes.

As for CHF, Brown has the tools but needs to go harder and more in defensive pressure for mine. I will say it has gotten better but still needs more. Putting his mass in the contest a bit more would help. Only other choices are Walker, Kersten and the roughy would be JK.

Its a very good question for mine and hope it gets discussion not player bashing…

Go Catters

 

[Partridge]

I didn't read it as a bagging or loss of support thread. I saw it as at the moment in game 13 Mitch didn't have a good one but him aside who is the best option at CHF going forward structurally.

I think the idea of slipping HT forward any time other than by chance is counter intuitive in that with the back 1/3 well settled ( although the smalls still hurt us) the downside is too great to be making big structural changes.

As for CHF, Brown has the tools but needs to go harder and more in defensive pressure for mine. I will say it has gotten better but still needs more. Putting his mass in the contest a bit more would help. Only other choices are Walker, Kersten and the roughy would be JK.

Its a very good question for mine and hope it gets discussion not player bashing…

Go Catters

It's going to become that very, very soon. Realistically though, will they even try JK at centre half forward at senior level? I hope not for his sake. Kersten, need we remind everyone again, has played 0 senior games. Walker has only played 10.

It's not that our options are bare; our whole cupboard is. We ideally need a younger version of Pods; someone on 50-80 games (Pods was on 83 when he finished with us I believe) who can hold down a key forward position more or less week in, week out. We don't have a player who can do that right now. We might have that in 20 weeks' time.

It's not just a question of is Brown the best option right now, but critically - are the other options realistically going to be any better? In which case with Walker, Kersten and JK the answer will be maybe (at best), no, and no. That would be part of the thinking as well.

 

[candiehappy]

I cannot seriously believe the suggestion of moving Harry to CHF. That's worse than robbing Peter to pay Paul. The void that this would leave down back will be diabolical.

Better to keep trying what's being cobbled together at the moment. It will look better when Motlop & Christianson are back will which will mean that the CHF needs to bring the ball to ground and fight to keep it up forward. But doesn't have to be the new Pods

 

[Pivo]

Basically all you can do is work with what you've got.

- Move Hawkins to CHF and try Brown/someone else (a resting a ruckman or Walker or, later in the year, Kersten) at FF.
- Play Bartel as a "small, mobile" CHF (kinda like we did with Paul Lynch all those years ago with some limited success).
- Move Brown to a forward flank and try Walker at CHF (starts looking top heavy and would probably cause even more angst on the board).
- Send Brown back to the HBF (where I don't think he is that comfortable) and try Rivers at CHF (but Rivers didn't really work out when Melbourne tried him forward).
- Instruct Blicavs to drift through the forward line off the wing (a bit like he did against Collingwood when he came on but this is very much a hit and miss tactic).
- Kolodjashnij to a back flank and move Mackie into the forward line (still very early days to be suggesting this).
- Plonk Steve Johnson at CHF and accept he isn't going to play the position in the "traditional" way (not really viable right now but might be when Motlop and Chistensen return).
- Tell Mackie and Taylor and Lonergan to try and get forward a bit more if the play allows it to create other options throughout the game (again, very hit and miss and could hurt us when the ball is turned over)

Or just stand pat and hope/trust Brown starts playing more consistently with more gametime.

None of the options really fill me with any joy as alternatives (and I'm not convinced Brown is the ultimate answer for the position) but based on Vardy's career stats there is every chance what we are seeing with Brown right now is what we would have been seeing if Vardy was at CHF instead.

 

[candiehappy]

Basically all you can do is work with what you've got.

- Move Hawkins to CHF and try Brown/someone else (a resting a ruckman or Walker or, later in the year, Kersten) at FF.
- Play Bartel as a "small, mobile" CHF (kinda like we did with Paul Lynch all those years ago with some limited success).
- Move Brown to a forward flank and try Walker at CHF (starts looking top heavy and would probably cause even more angst on the board).
- Send Brown back to the HBF (where I don't think he is that comfortable) and try Rivers at CHF (but Rivers didn't really work out when Melbourne tried him forward).
- Instruct Blicavs to drift through the forward line off the wing (a bit like he did against Collingwood when he came on but this is very much a hit and miss tactic).
- Kolodjashnij to a back flank and move Mackie into the forward line (still very early days to be suggesting this).
- Plonk Steve Johnson at CHF and accept he isn't going to play the position in the "traditional" way (not really viable right now but might be when Motlop and Chistensen return).
- Tell Mackie and Taylor and Lonergan to try and get forward a bit more if the play allows it to create other options throughout the game (again, very hit and miss and could hurt us when the ball is turned over)

Or just stand pat and hope/trust Brown starts playing more consistently with more gametime.

None of the options really fill me with any joy as alternatives (and I'm not convinced Brown is the ultimate answer for the position) but based on Vardy's career stats there is every chance what we are seeing with Brown right now is what we would have been seeing if Vardy was at CHF instead.

get to the end of year with Brown and trade / poach / buy or steal a CHF.

 

[Pivo]

get to the end of year with Brown and trade / poach / buy or steal a CHF.

Well yes, that might very well be the best option.

Not too sure I can get Kennedy/Darling/Tippett/Walker/Henderson/Carlisle/Roughead/etc down the front of my pants though.

 

[vinum coupe]

It's really a shame Kersten is injured.
And I wouldn't have him in and Brown out, I'd firstly try to play both.

 

[Partridge]

Basically all you can do is work with what you've got.

- Move Hawkins to CHF and try Brown/someone else (a resting a ruckman or Walker or, later in the year, Kersten) at FF.

Can't see them moving Hawkins to be honest. Not now he's starting to show some genuine form again. Did anyone else notice he actually LED AND JUMPED on Saturday night?

- Play Bartel as a "small, mobile" CHF (kinda like we did with Paul Lynch all those years ago with some limited success).

I always thought Lynch was a half forward flanker myself. They will need a second key forward; the game hasn't changed that much. We had one all of 2 weeks ago and looked ok.

- Move Brown to a forward flank and try Walker at CHF (starts looking top heavy and would probably cause even more angst on the board).

Yep I think the lack of speed - Walker if anything is slower than Brown - isn't going to help the defensive pressure coming out of our forward line.

- Send Brown back to the HBF (where I don't think he is that comfortable) and try Rivers at CHF (but Rivers didn't really work out when Melbourne tried him forward).

I think Brown would be ok as a third tall defender - he played well there last time against St.Kilda. Far from convinced that Rivers is any kind of solution at CHF, not at this stage of his career.

- Instruct Blicavs to drift through the forward line off the wing (a bit like he did against Collingwood when he came on but this is very much a hit and miss tactic).

Can't see them doing it. It's a very different thing from drifting inside 50 and taking a mark or two to having a key defender hanging off you. Brown, Vardy and Walker know that. Blicavs doesn't. Yet.

- Kolodjashnij to a back flank and move Mackie into the forward line (still very early days to be suggesting this).

Can't see them moving Mackie. He's in great touch and is a vital member of our defence. Great that Kolodjashnij has started well in the VFL but it's much tougher at senior level. As Brown and Walker have discovered.

- Plonk Steve Johnson at CHF and accept he isn't going to play the position in the "traditional" way (not really viable right now but might be when Motlop and Chistensen return).

Nope. Johnson is a midfielder now. Just 1 week ago he was clear BOG against Brisbane and was phenomenal. No way should the club move him from there.

- Tell Mackie and Taylor and Lonergan to try and get forward a bit more if the play allows it to create other options throughout the game (again, very hit and miss and could hurt us when the ball is turned over)

That's not unreasonable - Mackie has been drifting forward for years. Taylor does it too. Some weeks it works, some it doesn't. That'll continue.

Or just stand pat and hope/trust Brown starts playing more consistently with more gametime.

None of the options really fill me with any joy as alternatives (and I'm not convinced Brown is the ultimate answer for the position) but based on Vardy's career stats there is every chance what we are seeing with Brown right now is what we would have been seeing if Vardy was at CHF instead.

No one seems to consider even the possibility that Vardy might not be a superstar next year. He's barely done any better than Brown at senior level but the perception of him is very different.

To me it's simple, either pick Brown, or pick Walker (whoever, I really don't care anymore), plonk them at CHF and leave them there. For at least 6 games, possibly 10, possibly the season. Find out for sure one way or another. I really don't think there is any other option outside of those two. One of them may not be good enough. Here's the unpleasant part - NEITHER of them may be good enough. But it's almost our only option.