When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

[JHF1870]

PART 1 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

Part 2 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive-part-2.1286604/

www.bigfooty.com

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We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting players, they have elite players, drafted well and yet they're still not delivering.

I'm not invested.

 

[10571z]

What a messy situation. Everyone knew Teague was gone with weeks left and instead of starting their coaching search they are still without a coach.

Show how selfless what Buckley did was. Pies now secured their panel with highly rated assistants already focusing on next season.

 

[Chief]

instead of starting their coaching search

How do you know?

 

[Chief]

Scott knew the Carlton job was on offer. He took the AFL one instead.

What?? I know the Carlton job is on offer. I decide to eat cereal and watch YouTube instead.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

brad scott is out too now.

Will basically have to be a first time coach at this point.

1.Clarkson
2.Lyon
3.Buckley
4.Leppitsch
5.Fagan
6.Scott
7.Pyke
8.Voss

 

[Chief]

Smart move.

I couldn’t handle the hours. I hear they are out of bed before 9AM. Sucks.

 

[Chief]

1.Clarkson
2.Lyon
3.Buckley
4.Leppitsch
4.Scott
5.Pyke
6.Voss

You have to add EVERY COACH IN THE COUNTRY to that list now. I have no doubt they all know there is a job on offer and what are they doing?? Other jobs!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You have to add EVERY COACH IN THE COUNTRY to that list now. I have no doubt they all know there is a job on offer and what are they doing?? Other jobs!

No, just the experienced AFL coaches who've taken themselves out of the process or told Carlton they wouldn't be involved.

 

[Chief]

Taken themselves out of a process they were never in?

Nice troll

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Taken themselves out of a process they were never in?

Nice troll

Just the facts, Chief.

All of the above coaches fit the 'experienced coach' brief that the Pres went with, but they've all stated one by one that they won't be having any meaningful discussions about coaching Carlton, when asked.

Would be beneficial for Hawks if Clarkson did go there so we can get the soft cap back in order, but it seems he wants no part in it.

 

[Chief]

Classic.

Why the **** would anyone let Brad Scott near a football team?

Dreamin’.

 

[Great8]

Carlton dodged a bullet by not getting Brad Scott

 

[WillHayward]

1.Clarkson
2.Lyon
3.Buckley
4.Leppitsch
4.Scott
5.Pyke
6.Voss

They asked Chris Fagan as well remember.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

They asked Chris Fagan as well remember.

So Pyke would be number 7 candidate.

 

[Chief]

He was ok with the Roos.

I can’t remember how many finals the Roos played under Scott. I will go look it up.

 

[Chief]

Average of 10 wins a year, 4 finals wins total out of 8 games. No finals since their last loss in 2016.

Bog average. And moaning about everything all the way.

 

[RAPPA]

Carlton dropped their partner, fed up with stagnation and no progress in their relationship. Saw fractures in surrounding relationships and other available partners and thought, “sweet, there are more available upgrades”. Breaks up with the partner, remains single and people are apprehensive to enter into a relationship with them. Solid.

 

[btdg]

Carlton dropped their partner, fed up with stagnation and no progress in their relationship. Saw fractures in surrounding relationships and other available partners and thought, “sweet, there are more available upgrades”. Breaks up with the partner, remains single and people are apprehensive to enter into a relationship with them. Solid.

Carlton fell in love with their coach while on a trip to Bali, then got married after a whirlwind 3 month engagement, even though people around scratched their head a little bit and wondered what they saw in him. 18 months later, after spending a fair bit of time in lockdown, it was clear to everyone that it wasn't going to work long-term, but Carlton went through couples therapy for a few months before finally bringing about the divorce. There were some whispers of infidelity in the dying stages of the relationship but Carlton always said they would wait until the divorce cleared and there's little evidence otherwise.

Since then, aunts and family friends have been trying to set Carlton up with a bunch of potential suitors, who keep publicly (and in humiliating ways) rejecting us even though we aren't interested, but the bloody family won't stop. Carlton have said they will take a little break before dating again, and take things a bit more slowly this, but the relatives are impatient and every day brings another round of 'when are you going to get married again? You aren't getting any younger, you know..." and "what a disaster. did you see Mrs Scott's Son got married to someone else? Why didn't you marry him? What - you've never even spoken with him? What about his brother... yes, I know he is already married, but you are getting desperate, aren't you".

Meanwhile, Carlton are taking it slow, engaging in a bit of self-care, trying to get the new house and living arrangements sorted and cautiously trying our luck with a new tinder profile. Lots of options on there - maybe they aren't doctors or lawyers, but we've dated rich guys in the past and this time we're at least telling our friends we are going to marry for love and look for something that works long term - you know, family man, good with kids, stable, and someone we can really see ourselves with in good times and bad...

Of course the friends doubt us - they've seen us make all sorts of bad dating choices in the past, and been there with the tub of ice cream and box of tissues every time. And the friends and relatives just won't stop their gossip... "what about Ms Clarkson's boy. He's just got divorced too, and I know you hate him from that thing that happened in 1987 and he's just moved away, but you could do worse, you know"... and sometimes it makes you just want to bring a 19 year-old guy with a prison record and neck tattoos who is 'currently between jobs' to dinner just to see what happens... but no, we're telling ourselves we're going to be more mature this time around and we're going to stick with it... this time...

 

[faible]

Carlton fell in love with their coach while on a trip to Bali, then got married after a whirlwind 3 month engagement, even though people around scratched their head a little bit and wondered what they saw in him. 18 months later, after spending a fair bit of time in lockdown, it was clear to everyone that it wasn't going to work long-term, but Carlton went through couples therapy for a few months before finally bringing about the divorce. There were some whispers of infidelity in the dying stages of the relationship but Carlton always said they would wait until the divorce cleared and there's little evidence otherwise.

Since then, aunts and family friends have been trying to set Carlton up with a bunch of potential suitors, who keep publicly (and in humiliating ways) rejecting us even though we aren't interested, but the bloody family won't stop. Carlton have said they will take a little break before dating again, and take things a bit more slowly this, but the relatives are impatient and every day brings another round of 'when are you going to get married again? You aren't getting any younger, you know..." and "what a disaster. did you see Mrs Scott's Son got married to someone else? Why didn't you marry him? What - you've never even spoken with him? What about his brother... yes, I know he is already married, but you are getting desperate, aren't you".

Meanwhile, Carlton are taking it slow, engaging in a bit of self-care, trying to get the new house and living arrangements sorted and cautiously trying our luck with a new tinder profile. Lots of options on there - maybe they aren't doctors or lawyers, but we've dated rich guys in the past and this time we're at least telling our friends we are going to marry for love and look for something that works long term - you know, family man, good with kids, stable, and someone we can really see ourselves with in good times and bad...

Of course the friends doubt us - they've seen us make all sorts of bad dating choices in the past, and been there with the tub of ice cream and box of tissues every time. And the friends and relatives just won't stop their gossip... "what about Ms Clarkson's boy. He's just got divorced too, and I know you hate him from that thing that happened in 1987 and he's just moved away, but you could do worse, you know"... and sometimes it makes you just want to bring a 19 year-old guy with a prison record and neck tattoos who is 'currently between jobs' to dinner just to see what happens... but no, we're telling ourselves we're going to be more mature this time around and we're going to stick with it... this time...

You've really bought the spin haven't you.

 

[Jibroni]

Just imagine the reaction:

 

[Crankyhawk]

Carlton fell in love with their coach while on a trip to Bali, then got married after a whirlwind 3 month engagement, even though people around scratched their head a little bit and wondered what they saw in him. 18 months later, after spending a fair bit of time in lockdown, it was clear to everyone that it wasn't going to work long-term, but Carlton went through couples therapy for a few months before finally bringing about the divorce. There were some whispers of infidelity in the dying stages of the relationship but Carlton always said they would wait until the divorce cleared and there's little evidence otherwise.

Since then, aunts and family friends have been trying to set Carlton up with a bunch of potential suitors, who keep publicly (and in humiliating ways) rejecting us even though we aren't interested, but the bloody family won't stop. Carlton have said they will take a little break before dating again, and take things a bit more slowly this, but the relatives are impatient and every day brings another round of 'when are you going to get married again? You aren't getting any younger, you know..." and "what a disaster. did you see Mrs Scott's Son got married to someone else? Why didn't you marry him? What - you've never even spoken with him? What about his brother... yes, I know he is already married, but you are getting desperate, aren't you".

Meanwhile, Carlton are taking it slow, engaging in a bit of self-care, trying to get the new house and living arrangements sorted and cautiously trying our luck with a new tinder profile. Lots of options on there - maybe they aren't doctors or lawyers, but we've dated rich guys in the past and this time we're at least telling our friends we are going to marry for love and look for something that works long term - you know, family man, good with kids, stable, and someone we can really see ourselves with in good times and bad...

Of course the friends doubt us - they've seen us make all sorts of bad dating choices in the past, and been there with the tub of ice cream and box of tissues every time. And the friends and relatives just won't stop their gossip... "what about Ms Clarkson's boy. He's just got divorced too, and I know you hate him from that thing that happened in 1987 and he's just moved away, but you could do worse, you know"... and sometimes it makes you just want to bring a 19 year-old guy with a prison record and neck tattoos who is 'currently between jobs' to dinner just to see what happens... but no, we're telling ourselves we're going to be more mature this time around and we're going to stick with it... this time...

You missed the part where the clocking is ticking to get a partner, you can’t be on self improvement forever

Unless going with captain coach idea? Trying to combine coaching and player salary cap…

 

[btdg]

You've really bought the spin haven't you.

It's been refreshingly spin-free to be honest.

The process with Teague was demonstrably awkward at the end... but not really spinned. I think they did genuinely want to give him a chance to present before getting sacked and by the time that came around it was just wrong all-round (we all knew he was gone).

Since then, there's been remarkably little communication. They appointed Greg Williams and he put out an official press release that was pretty spin free. We've announced a few player signings. And otherwise it's pretty clear there is a coaching process happening, behind closed doors. Remarkably for a club who leaked EVERYTHIGN over the past decade, the leaks have plugged (interestingly there was a suspicion on the Carlton board that the club flushed out the leaks with conflicting information coming from a wave of 'ITKs' in a few days, then a big weird mess happening and literally nothing of substance since... if you really want to get conspiracy minded that was basically when Liddle resigned...)

COVID has meant the AFL journos have far less to go on than normally in these cases. There's no camping in the carpark to see Michael Voss arriving for his interview - it's all happening behind closed doors. Almost all the reporting has been speculative:
- Caroline Wilson says Brad Scott should be the favourite
- Someone else says 'it has been reported that Brad Scott is the favourite at Carlton'
- Tom Browne reports 'he hears whispers Carlton are talking to Brad Scott'
- Brad Scott starts working at AFL house and says he has had no contact with Carlton at all
- Media claim Scott rejected Carlton

Other media reports are clearly based on leaks out of other clubs:
- we probably did inquire with Fagan about whether he would be interested in moving, he said no, and that info was almost certainly leaked by pissed off Brisbane people

Carlton have been open about preferring a veteran coach. That never meant Ross Lyon, even if he and his mates thought it did. We've been pretty open that we would love Clarko to be interested and would love him to apply... and he isn't. That's not spin though - that's what honesty looks like (should we really have pretended we didn't want the best coahc of the last 3 decades who is suddenly not coaching?)

We've also said that we'll appoint a coaching panel, the process will take 3-4 weeks, and we'll consider a wide range of candidates. That seems to be what is happenning, with very little else leaking. I'm not sure exactly what you want?

 

[btdg]

You missed the part where the clocking is ticking to get a partner, you can’t be on self improvement forever

Unless going with captain coach idea? Trying to combine coaching and player salary cap…

Yep, we announced a process that would take 3-4 weeks and we're about halfway into that now.

There's no particular benefit to announcing the coach right now, while finals are happening, in the middle of a pandemic?

Free agency is 2 weeks away and trade week is just after that, but a new coach isn't likely to have a huge role in any major decisions there.

What's the rush? Why would we not be thorough and detailed in our process, particularly given the desire for this to be part of a proper change and growth within the club?

 

[faible]

It's been refreshingly spin-free to be honest.

The process with Teague was demonstrably awkward at the end... but not really spinned. I think they did genuinely want to give him a chance to present before getting sacked and by the time that came around it was just wrong all-round (we all knew he was gone).

Since then, there's been remarkably little communication. They appointed Greg Williams and he put out an official press release that was pretty spin free. We've announced a few player signings. And otherwise it's pretty clear there is a coaching process happening, behind closed doors. Remarkably for a club who leaked EVERYTHIGN over the past decade, the leaks have plugged (interestingly there was a suspicion on the Carlton board that the club flushed out the leaks with conflicting information coming from a wave of 'ITKs' in a few days, then a big weird mess happening and literally nothing of substance since... if you really want to get conspiracy minded that was basically when Liddle resigned...)

COVID has meant the AFL journos have far less to go on than normally in these cases. There's no camping in the carpark to see Michael Voss arriving for his interview - it's all happening behind closed doors. Almost all the reporting has been speculative:
- Caroline Wilson says Brad Scott should be the favourite
- Someone else says 'it has been reported that Brad Scott is the favourite at Carlton'
- Tom Browne reports 'he hears whispers Carlton are talking to Brad Scott'
- Brad Scott starts working at AFL house and says he has had no contact with Carlton at all
- Media claim Scott rejected Carlton

Other media reports are clearly based on leaks out of other clubs:
- we probably did inquire with Fagan about whether he would be interested in moving, he said no, and that info was almost certainly leaked by pissed off Brisbane people

Carlton have been open about preferring a veteran coach. That never meant Ross Lyon, even if he and his mates thought it did. We've been pretty open that we would love Clarko to be interested and would love him to apply... and he isn't. That's not spin though - that's what honesty looks like (should we really have pretended we didn't want the best coahc of the last 3 decades who is suddenly not coaching?)

We've also said that we'll appoint a coaching panel, the process will take 3-4 weeks, and we'll consider a wide range of candidates. That seems to be what is happenning, with very little else leaking. I'm not sure exactly what you want?

I mean, the entire AFL world knew Teague was gone before the season ended, Teague knew Teague was gone before the season ended, and yet they made him conduct exit interviews while they actively spoke to other coaches (like Clarkson) before Teague was actually removed, despite everyone knowing he was going to be removed. The spin is that it was somehow managed professionally despite being managed not-at-all professionally.

Lyon was sold the job, then it appears a process was put in place that would tell no one who's been involved with AFL anything new about what Ross Lyon was going to bring as a coach, so Lyon withdrew.

Somewhere in all that Clarkson was also contacted and by all accounts given a pretty hefty offer, so wouldn't have had to go through this process that apparently everyone has to go through, but that not everyone has to go through, and that Greg Williams said is a process that's going to be different for different people. So maybe not quite as much of a clear process as they're saying.

You can believe the club spin that it's all 100% professional and hunky dory if you like, but there's more than enough floating around to suggest that's not exactly true. Your revisionist attempt at history has been entertaining at least though.

To me it looks a hell of a lot like a massive AFL sliding doors moment happened when Collingwood lost that GF.

Collingwood wins, Buckley is still probably coach, Mitchell was never offered the Collingwood job, Hawthorn doesn't turf Clarkson, Carlton doesn't throw Teague out the door hoping to get Clarkson, then Lyon, then now hoping to get Pyke.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Lyon was offered the Carlton job and was fait accompli.

Then Carlton board members starting getting cold feet when journos started ringing round to find out more about the Lyon me Too settlement at Freo.

Lyon pulls pin when hears previous commitment wont be honoured and would instead need to go through a process